If someone from Fdev streams themselves unlocking all the Guardian tech. I will eat my eye patch.

[Stigbob]

Just so I understand your point, if the option to repeat gameplay loop is useless, then FD should remove this mechanics and player will not have to choose between a badly designed feature and the real game?

Nope if you want to unlock a guardian thing you should get on and do it, but if you choose to do it then complain you don't like doing it people will suggest not doing it. As it's all completely optional.

If you choose to do the optional thing you don't like eighteen times in succession whilst blaming everyone else that you are not having a good time, people might rightly suggest you are doing it wrong on the basis that your choices are obviously not making you happy.

 

[Stigbob]

Do you really think this even seems that way?

But in either case it will ever be a bad design. The choice is just do it the way it is designed or don't. There is no alternative. If you want Guardian modules, you have to do the specified task. All at once or in steps is irrelevant, the issue with it persists.

If you want ships you need cash, if you want bounties you need weapons, if you want to fight the Thargoids you need to slap some AX weps in your ship.

You want it but don't want to get it only calls into question whether or not you actually want it.

On that note why do you want to unlock all the guardian stuff ?, I've had a look and about three of them interest me at all in a not very bothered that can wait kind of way.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Choosing to do it all, or all at once isn't game design it's just players deciding to opt out of enjoying themselves by doing something optional that they don't like. Everything about it is entirely self inflicted.

I didn't say anything about playing it - what are you talking about?

I said the design of that game mechanic is rubbish - it is and demonstably so. It also shows the devs don't care for their players or their game when they add lazy crap like that into a game and pass it off as perfectly acceptable.

 

[Logarius]

I can easily imagine game designer thinking: "I have to create an optional mechanics in my game. If people choose to use it, then they have to suffer for it"

Nope if you want to unlock a guardian thing you should get on and do it, but if you choose to do it then complain you don't like doing it people will suggest not doing it. As it's all completely optional.

If you choose to do the optional thing you don't like eighteen times in succession whilst blaming everyone else that you are not having a good time, people might rightly suggest you are doing it wrong on the basis that your choices are obviously not making you happy.

Please explain, what is the right way to do unlock the optional Guardian stuff?
I would really like FD to show us the right way to play this part of Elite.

Sorry the image below is in French

 

[Maka Gucci]

I didn't say anything about playing it - what are you talking about?

I said the design of that game mechanic is rubbish - it is and demonstably so. It also shows the devs don't care for their players or their game when they add lazy crap like that into a game and pass it off as perfectly acceptable.

I understand the devs motives for passing off low effort grind as game play, it's cost effective. What I never understand is how some people can so fervently defend it, when even the devs themselves cannot.

 

[Stigbob]

I didn't say anything about playing it - what are you talking about?

I said the design of that game mechanic is rubbish - it is and demonstably so. It also shows the devs don't care for their players or their game when they add lazy crap like that into a game and pass it off as perfectly acceptable.

Is it ?, I'm looking forward to getting onto it when I get the chance what with being bogged down with lots of really fun things to do.

If you don't enjoy the video game it's time to either reassess how you play it, or if you should take a break. There is no one game to rule them all, it's OK.

I can easily imagine game designer thinking: "I have to create an optional mechanics in my game. If people choose to use it, then they have to suffer for it"

I imagine them thinking "man that's sad why do they insist on playing in such a repetitive and boring way", which is probably why they capped engineer upgrades people were going bonkers at it.

Please explain, what is the right way to do unlock the optional Guardian stuff?
I would really like FD to show us the right way to play this part of Elite.

The way that works for you anything else is wrong. FDEV can't show you what that is because we are all different, you have to try various things for yourself and find what you like doing and how you like doing it.

I understand the devs motives for passing off low effort grind as game play, it's cost effective. What I never understand is how some people can so fervently defend it, when even the devs themselves cannot.

It's just a game, I can't understand why people do things supposedly for fun that they don't enjoy.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I understand the devs motives for passing off low effort grind as game play, it's cost effective. What I never understand is how some people can so fervently defend it, when even the devs themselves cannot.

Well there's always going to be those people, some people have to defend stuff even when they have no logical argument for doing so - it feels right to them I suppose.

However, I can't understand the low effort in Brabens own game - the chance and PC power to make Elite shine and look what they gave us. Give me $120,000,000 and I'll give you a game with space legs and purpose LOL. They made more than $120,000,000 btw and they sold a lot of shares, including Braben selling off controlling majority. I think they saw the money come in and decided to keep it.

 

[Logarius]

It's just a game, I can't understand why people do things supposedly for fun that they don't enjoy.

Besause of the carrot at the end of the grind.
For some the carrot is just better durability in combat, for other a longer jump range to access other parts of the galaxy to see nice vistas.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Is it ?, I'm looking forward to getting onto it when I get the chance what with being bogged down with lots of really fun things to do..

Yes it is - can you explain how a copy/paste of the exact game play is fun? Most games don't repeat the exact same gameplay and make game of the year. They'll get slated and rightly so. You might be looking forward to it is not an argument to rebutt what I said. Your feelings are not relevant here - what IS relevant is game mechanics and how we make them, improve them and make them fun and engaging. Yes, YOU might find it fun but we don't measure good gameplay on what you find fun - there have to be standards and repeating something 20 times is not a standard any developer would say is great game design.

If you think I'm wrong, prove it - find these game devs or critics that are harping on about just how great repetitive gameplay is.

 

[Stigbob]

Besause of the carrot at the end of the grind.
For some the carrot is just better durability in combat, for other a longer jump range to access other parts of the galaxy to see nice vistas.

Having achieved the carrot will you enjoy the carrot at all, or will you just move straight onto digging up the next carrot ?.

Repetitive strain injury may result from overdoing the digging.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Please explain, what is the right way to do unlock the optional Guardian stuff?
I would really like FD to show us the right way to play this part of Elite.

This is actually an interesting question. Let's investigate this closer.

1. FDEV previously stated relogging or mode-switching is NOT an intended game mechanic. Therefore the way most CMDRs unlock the guardian weapons and modules right now can't be the intended way.

2. Furthermore, only a small part of all the players visit the forum regularly and probably even less know about the Cannon database that lists all the guardian structures. So it can't be required for the player to have that knowledge to get the guardian tech.

Therefore, to me it looks like FDEV design the unlocking of the guardian tech by taking on the second Ram Tah mission, flying around in the Synuefe sector looking for structures on their own, and as they visit the guardian sites, they'll find a few sites with the databases and pylons, activate them and get a blueprint.
Of course this will take weeks or even month for a single CMDR flying around the Synuefe region looking for structures until they would have enough blueprints to only unlock one guardian module.

This seems the way unlocking the guardian tech was designed. Which to me appears to be completely and utterly INSANE.

 

[Stigbob]

Yes it is - can you explain how a copy/paste of the exact game play is fun? Most games don't repeat the exact same gameplay and make game of the year. They'll get slated and rightly so. You might be looking forward to it is not an argument to rebutt what I said. Your feelings are not relevant here - what IS relevant is game mechanics and how we make them, improve them and make them fun and engaging. Yes, YOU might find it fun but we don't measure good gameplay on what you find fun - there have to be standards and repeating something 20 times is not a standard any developer would say is great game design.

If you think I'm wrong, prove it - find these game devs or critics that are harping on about just how great repetitive gameplay is.

I measure which games I should play and in what way by what I find fun, so it's the single most important yardstick. Never touching with a ten foot stick the sort of choices people who only ever complain make is also a factor in my gaming choices, and probably why I'm a happy gamer.

If you do an optional entertainment thing in a way you don't like you are not just doing it wrong, you are missing the whole point of why the thing exists.

This seems the way unlocking the guardian tech was designed. Which to me appears to be completely and utterly INSANE.

Then don't do it that way.

 

[Logarius]

Depends on what aspect of the game people are focussing on.
Maybe one day, I feel like doing some exploration maybe I want to do some fighting. For each aspect to be enjoyable, I may want to unlock a better hardware.
Having a ship with a jump range 10ly or 50ly to go to Maia from Sol makes a difference.

Having achieved the carrot will you enjoy the carrot at all, or will you just move straight onto digging up the next carrot ?.

Repetitive strain injury may result from overdoing the digging.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Having achieved the carrot will you enjoy the carrot at all, or will you just move straight onto digging up the next carrot ?.

Repetitive strain injury may result from overdoing the digging.

My general ED experience (engineers) is rather digging and digging and still no carrot.

 

[Stigbob]

Depends on what aspect of the game people are focussing on.
Maybe one day, I feel like doing some exploration maybe I want to do some fighting. For each aspect to be enjoyable, I may want to unlock a better hardware.
Having a ship with a jump range 10ly or 50ly to go to Maia from Sol makes a difference.

Yep so do that, there's a world of difference between upgrading the FSD of you explorer ship and insisting on unlocking all the guardian stuff in one go.

My general ED experience (engineers) is rather digging and digging and still no carrot.

You need to upgrade your spade.

 

[zimms]

You need to upgrade your spade.

That's what he's trying to do, but it takes a lot of grinding.

 

[Stigbob]

That's what he's trying to do, but it takes a lot of grinding.

V2 engineers is really really easy, absolutely no grind involved at all. Especially with the mat traders and pinned blueprints.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

That's what he's trying to do, but it takes a lot of grinding.

I threw away the spade and took another profession. It was clear I wouldn't get anywhere in am engineering career.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Then don't do it that way.

Lol, obviously I didn't, I "exploited" the heck out of it by relogging.

 

[Stigbob]

Lol, obviously I didn't, I "exploited" the heck out of it by relogging.

If that's what you enjoy doing it's the right choice.