Modes These arguments are tedious.

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Assuming i made no more money ever again, you would have to kill me 6000 times.

Interesting to note, you don't actually address the second point i made though. Is Rinzler right or wrong? Do you agree with his video or not? I'm sure i've seen you say that video is a good guide. If so, then your posturing means nothing, all it takes is a bit of knowledge, skill, practice, and you never need worry about a PvPer again.... or, are you delcaring Rinzler to be wrong?

If you read some of his reddit post and listened to the damn thing aunt. "Most gankers are gimbal scrubs". Guess you forgot about groms, premium ammo double shot frag cannons. Drag missiles. Reverb rails. Most of the PVPers arent going to learn anything popping a trader. Most of the PVPers arent fighting over territory. They created their own game with blackjack and hookers. Because the one thats available to us. Even those same PVPers take advantage of the modes if they do do it. WHy wouldnt they?

Engineers and modules are pretty balanced. You can take someone down if you really wanted to. What hes saying is most of the people that do it. Are garbage at the game. And any scrubl0rd can get away from them.

There are skillshots, utility, fixed weapons that we can use though. And have quite often.

So is Rinzler Wrong or Right? Its circumstantial. There is also a major difference in a wing build and a solo PVP build.

Are you going to have a 25 minute fight? Or are you going to use burst and utility for objectives.

There is SOOOOO much to this game you need to learn.

Maybe if you werent here trying to stop it. And accept the fact that you're probably going to need it one day. Maybe you should put the forums down for a while and work on gitting gud.

The BGS is all reference sheets so anyone can read directions and effect them. But not everyone has to abilities a PVPer has.

Sooner or later they will address with risk and reward problem.

And the 1% you guys make fun of. Will curb stomp every body.

So whats it going to be. Accept the fact you might need it one day? Or get wrecked when it happens and make another forum post asking PVP to be removed because you got blowd up.

 

[Robert Maynard]

What good is the blockade if it doesnt work? All that time fighting and trying to stop someone is wasted? They get the reach their end goal anyways?

The only thing a Blockade works on is noobs and farming salt. As soon as they get stopped once. They swap modes. We seen this with the Ceos and Sothis blockades in Operation Sirus business.

If people are going out of their way to blockade. Their efforts should be rewarded in the game. The whole purpose of a blockade is to stop someones progression. And that CANNOT BE DONE.

Indeed - blockades don't work.

Equally, any player can appear in any station in Open - without encountering any players on the way there - therefore they cannot be stopped from a BGS perspective.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Im coming down hard.

You are so butch!

Impressed Ziggy is impressed.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If you read some of his reddit post and listened to the damn thing aunt. "Most gankers are gimbal scrubs". Guess you forgot about groms, premium ammo double shot frag cannons. Drag missiles. Reverb rails. Most of the PVPers arent going to learn anything popping a trader. Most of the PVPers arent fighting over territory. They created their own game with blackjack and hookers. Because the one thats available to us. Even those same PVPers take advantage of the modes if they do do it. WHy wouldnt they?

Engineers and modules are pretty balanced. You can take someone down if you really wanted to. What hes saying is most of the people that do it. Are garbage at the game. And any scrubl0rd can get away from them.

There are skillshots, utility, fixed weapons that we can use though. And have quite often.

So is Rinzler Wrong or Right? Its circumstantial. There is also a major difference in a wing build and a solo PVP build.

Are you going to have a 25 minute fight? Or are you going to use burst and utility for objectives.

There is SOOOOO much to this game you need to learn.

Maybe if you werent here trying to stop it. And accept the fact that you're probably going to need it one day. Maybe you should put the forums down for a while and work on gitting gud.

The BGS is all reference sheets so anyone can read directions and effect them. But not everyone has to abilities a PVPer has.

Sooner or later they will address with risk and reward problem.

And the 1% you guys make fun of. Will curb stomp every body.

So whats it going to be. Accept the fact you might need it one day? Or get wrecked when it happens and make another forum post asking PVP to be removed because you got blowd up.

Got it, so you are saying most PvEers are not capable of escpaing from PvPers. So you are saying escpae from PvPers is only possible for PvP lords?

Hmm... you might be right, but then, i guess that makes Rinzler's video advice worthless then.

Or, its just possible, if everyone was in open, people would git gud, and then we would be back to people escaping again.

Which is it? People can get good enoguh to escape from attackers or not? Or is there no hope?

Let's assume a 50/50 scenario, where escape is possible but not guaranteed. Then, we are back to the PvEer winning any BGS war anyway. All it takes is one successful run and you are ahead. Meanwhile, the PvPer is getting noteriety and losing rep with their own faction. Seems like PvEers - 1 : PvPers - Own goal

 

[Agony_Aunt]

There is another fallacy you are facing as well 90skid, in that you are saying that just because someone is a PvEer they are not skilled and would face destruction regardless.

Now, that makes a very bad argument for FD to force people together in the first place.

But its also plainly wrong. Just as there are PvPers who are less skilled than others, there are PvEers who are less skilled than others. What does it matter if PvEers are gimballed scrubs? If the aim is to evade, you don't even need weapons, perhaps some mines for the jollies, that's about it.

If I was doing BGS work in open, and i knew i'd be facing PvP opposition, i'd either troll them by letting them blow me up (no missions on board, but let them assume i have) or i'd be flying something fast. An 850 boost iCourier or something. Interdict all you want, i'll say do'svedanya and leave you choking on space dust.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Why not make it so if you are killed, for an hour the game keeps the two combatants apart (or have it as an option) to stop potential bullying?

You then get the benefits of Open but less of the potential problems. It might make Open more palatable for some players.

 

[Warm Considering]

I'd rather kill noobs in Eravate...

No. Uninstall.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

The three game modes and mode mobility guarantee that participating in a blockade is voluntary in this game.

Do you have it in a more scripted context?

"Optional" is trash game play. There is no "optional" when you compete against other players. You chose to be in a conflict, there should be one option for you which is to see the rebuy screen or survive. We already saw how those options killed PP, you want options play in solo vs npcs and stay away from MP conflict.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Do you have it in a more scripted context?

"Optional" is trash game play. There is no "optional" when you compete against other players. You chose to be in a conflict, there should be one option for you which is to see the rebuy screen or survive. We already saw how those options killed PP, you want options play in solo vs npcs and stay away from MP conflict.

The whole game is based on indirect MP conflict, or at least the potential for it.

Playing directly with other players remains optional though.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The whole game is based on indirect MP conflict, or at least the potential for it.

Playing directly with other players remains optional though.

If the risk is optional. So should be the reward.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

There is another fallacy you are facing as well 90skid, in that you are saying that just because someone is a PvEer they are not skilled and would face destruction regardless.

Now, that makes a very bad argument for FD to force people together in the first place.

But its also plainly wrong. Just as there are PvPers who are less skilled than others, there are PvEers who are less skilled than others. What does it matter if PvEers are gimballed scrubs? If the aim is to evade, you don't even need weapons, perhaps some mines for the jollies, that's about it.

If I was doing BGS work in open, and i knew i'd be facing PvP opposition, i'd either troll them by letting them blow me up (no missions on board, but let them assume i have) or i'd be flying something fast. An 850 boost iCourier or something. Interdict all you want, i'll say do'svedanya and leave you choking on space dust.

Here is what you're not understanding Aunt. While you're there screwing off getting nothing done. I could be outfitted to get something done. And I dont have to inderdtict you to kill you. I can get ya leaving a pad from a ground site.

https://youtu.be/9tobMVjSMnQ?t=104

And if you want to die over and over again. Cool! Go for it. The %'s in bounty hunting and so forth would make up for it.

NPC's are meant to be farmed, youd be nothing more than another statistic.

Fact of the matter is, You cant escape games forever.

Learn, it. Love it. Live by it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Here is what you're not understanding Aunt. While you're there screwing off getting nothing done. I could be outfitted to get something done. And I dont have to inderdtict you to kill you. I can get ya leaving a pad from a ground site.

Yup, you could do some BGS work instead! But then you are not attacking me, and so we are both PvEing happily. As the BGS is designed.

As for shooting me leaving a ground site... well, if you happen to be at the same place i am at, at the same time, in the same instance, sure you can. Enjoy your bounty.

And if you want to die over and over again. Cool! Go for it. The %'s in bounty hunting and so forth would make up for it.

What bounty? I wouldn't have a bounty. You would have the bounty which would make you working the BGS harder, and if in the control area of the faction you want to support, even worse.

But i don't want to die over and over again, and i probably wouldn't. I'd just fly a damn fast ship and let you waste your time trying to kill me.

Fact of the matter is, You cant escape games forever.

Learn, it. Love it. Live by it.

I have no idea what you are saying here. I don't want to escape games. I enjoy playing games, especially ED.

 

[Warm Considering]

I can get ya leaving a pad from a ground site.

That says more about you than the game, that you'd camp a terrestrial facility to attack another player. And you wonder why people don't want to play with you, and feel the need to petition the dev team to remake the entire game so that people are forced to play with you?

I'm sick of this argument. Go away, and if you won't go away then I will go away from you because that's how this game rolls. You knew how this game played before you installed it; You knew PvP was not the focus of the game, and if you didn't then maybe you should've cut your losses before you became so heavily vested in it. We do not play your way. We will never play your way, and you are wrong to come here and insist we should or that we should somehow be valued less for it. The bulk of the content is designed to accommodate the bulk of the players, and those players aren't looking to grief. This is one of the few games out there not obsessed with competitive PvP and nonsensical high-anxiety risk/reward systems. I can log in and do whatever the hell I want without fear that I'm missing out on something, and if that ticks you off then I say you're the problem, not the game.

 

[Mohrgan]

Here is what you're not understanding Aunt. While you're there screwing off getting nothing done. I could be outfitted to get something done. And I dont have to inderdtict you to kill you. I can get ya leaving a pad from a ground site.

https://youtu.be/9tobMVjSMnQ?t=104

And if you want to die over and over again. Cool! Go for it. The %'s in bounty hunting and so forth would make up for it.

NPC's are meant to be farmed, youd be nothing more than another statistic.

Fact of the matter is, You cant escape games forever.

Learn, it. Love it. Live by it.

Sometimes gaming is just gaming. Sometimes playing a video game is just for fun, and entertainment. Well, in my point of view all gaming is just for fun and entertainment. The day I 'can't escape games' is the day I need to escape games. If I ever find a need to 'Live by' a video game is the day I need to kill that game off. There is no reason to have to take a space ship game anywhere near that seriously. There is no reason why anyone would have to prove them selves in a video game, and there is even less reason to have to prove anything to someone else in a video game.

It's just a pass time. Play and let play.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Yup, you could do some BGS work instead! But then you are not attacking me, and so we are both PvEing happily. As the BGS is designed.

As for shooting me leaving a ground site... well, if you happen to be at the same place i am at, at the same time, in the same instance, sure you can. Enjoy your bounty.



What bounty? I wouldn't have a bounty. You would have the bounty which would make you working the BGS harder, and if in the control area of the faction you want to support, even worse.



I have no idea what you are saying here. I don't want to escape games. I enjoy playing games, especially ED.

And if I stop stop your 20 missions from being turned in. While I get to turn in mine. I guess that leaves me ahead of the game now doesnt it? And it probably only took 2 to 3 minutes of my time. You'll have rebuy, faction influence loss,(which means higher end missions wont spawn as much), and time taken away. Time is what id be rewarded with here.

Sooner or later youd have to kill cops or drive down influence from other factions if you plan on flipping it.

When the new crime and punishment was released. Holy crap the outcry was bad within the BGS community. "It was only supposed to stop the griefers" "Crime and punishment did nothing we wanted it to". Speaking of designs, This new crime and punishment didnt come from a buncha people complaining about solo and private.

It came from Open play. And they designed it around open play. Do some of the features still work in private and solo. SURE!.

But we all know NPC's are for farming and not having a 45 minute fight with someone else.

As to "can people get away or not" Is he right or is he wrong. That will come down to skill from both sides, builds and players involved. Ive escaped, and Ive been stopped from escaping. Both can very much happen depending on the situation. Being masslock could sure hurt ya.

I would say you're arguing to argue. But I really think its lack of experience for you here.

When the time comes, checks watch Im looking at another 5 or 6 months. When you're ready I'll even help teach ya.

Remember, the PVP when have in the currently. Compared to the PVP they tried to create for us. Are two separate entities.

And there is only one reason direct combat failed. And thats because you dont need it with the options that are available. Options that can and probably will be changed no different than the new crime and punishment system we have that would reflect it.


One day you'll find out about the escaping part. Just like everyone else.

 

[Han_Zen]

If the risk is optional. So should be the reward.

The transactions in ED are handled directly between the client and the server. What goes on in the realm of P2P has no influence on it.

If the issue is to be fixed it has to be done on the risk side, not the reward side.

I see three options for fixing the the risk gap, between open and other modes.

1) Make NPCs as dangerous as players.
2) Make players as weak as NPCs.
3) Have certain ingame choices that modifies your P2P filter.

The last one is probably a bit controversial. It would mean that certain situations would instance with other players, even if you select Solo.
An example could be: If you carry PP cargo or data, you get a warning that opposing powers may look for you. Your P2P filter gets modified to allow instancing with other PP players.
Another example is a USS that removes P2P filters. These could be conflict zones or checkpoints that are used in certain conflicts giving an influence bonus to the visitor.

I doubt that anything like this will be implemented, but it's at least technically rather manageable. Perhaps squadrons will come with something like this?

Hoping for modified rewards/influence on standard transactions based on mode choice, is just as futile as hoping for a PvP flag in Open or a separate Open PvE. It goes against the foundation of the design.

 

[UmbraRex]

Sometimes gaming is just gaming. Sometimes playing a video game is just for fun, and entertainment. Well, in my point of view all gaming is just for fun and entertainment. The day I 'can't escape games' is the day I need to escape games. If I ever find a need to 'Live by' a video game is the day I need to kill that game off. There is no reason to have to take a space ship game anywhere near that seriously. There is no reason why anyone would have to prove them selves in a video game, and there is even less reason to have to prove anything to someone else in a video game.

It's just a pass time. Play and let play.

Some people, it seems to me, want this game to become a PvP focused game.

The day that happens, I will uninstall it. And I suspect I won't be the only one.

 

[Mohrgan]

Some people, it seems to me, want this game to become a PvP focused game.

The day that happens, I will uninstall it. And I suspect I won't be the only one.

Certainly E|D is not all about multiplayer conflict. It has it's place, but it isn't so much of the game that it needs to dominate the game's design. It's back to the Hammer thing. If all you see E|D for is Multiplayer territorial conquest, then sure you may only see how PvP effects the game. But, we are lucky enough to have a game that includes far more than that one dimensional outlook.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

That says more about you than the game, that you'd camp a terrestrial facility to attack another player. And you wonder why people don't want to play with you, and feel the need to petition the dev team to remake the entire game so that people are forced to play with you?

I'm sick of this argument. Go away, and if you won't go away then I will go away from you because that's how this game rolls. You knew how this game played before you installed it; You knew PvP was not the focus of the game, and if you didn't then maybe you should've cut your losses before you became so heavily vested in it. We do not play your way. We will never play your way, and you are wrong to come here and insist we should or that we should somehow be valued less for it. The bulk of the content is designed to accommodate the bulk of the players, and those players aren't looking to grief. This is one of the few games out there not obsessed with competitive PvP and nonsensical high-anxiety risk/reward systems. I can log in and do whatever the hell I want without fear that I'm missing out on something, and if that ticks you off then I say you're the problem, not the game.

Big difference in stopping someones progress against you. And griefing new players in sidewinders.

 

[Mohrgan]

Big difference in stopping someones progress against you. And griefing new players in sidewinders.

You are also given options on how to stop their progress. Those opponents who chose to play in open, you can directly hinder. Those that chose not to engage in PvP you can hinder indirectly. That is the beauty of E|D's Mode System. Choices abound.