Powerplay should not be made Open-only. Here's why... [EDITED]

[Crimson Kaim]

On top of that, Frontier would be removing the Powerplay content from those who choose to play in the Solo and/or Private Group game client connectivity mode, for what would amount to no appreciable difference in the Powerplay outcome.

False. it is much more effective to kill a player that has 5000 merits in his/her pocket than killing a NPC ship and gaining 30 "counter-"merits.
For example. ALD player A undermines Hudson System X and Hudson player B kills player A while player A has 5000 merits not handed in. The effective counter (especially with the new changes) would be between 2500 and 5000 merits, which equal 83 - 167 NPC kills.
You can easily tell that killing ANY (not a specific) player is way more rewarding as long as they have ~100 merits or more in their pockets. PP PvP is just about that. Merit bombing and prevention. Don't hand in merits right before the trigger kicks in and kill anyone that might be suspicious to carry a merits bomb.
ofcourse, doing that in Solo/PG is way more secure as the risk of being killed is much much lower in PvE than in PvP as NPCs do not reflect the same risks as players due to their underdeveloped tactics and loadouts.

That said, people that choose Solo/PG have no interest in PvP whatsoever so there is no reason for them to participate in PP (a PvP focused system) in the first place. Shifting it to Open only makes PP fair and brings it closer to the palyers who intend to actually compete wit hall consequences instead of just seeking personal advantages.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Then you were out of touch. Dedicated PP groups started day 1.

No, the statement was made during an announcement of the introduction of a new thing being added called Powerplay - please do read the thread, it would prevent you from wasting your and others' time

 

[Sterling MH]

The game wasn't the game it is now when he bought it.

Well, yes. But one thing hadn't changed: all three modes are equal.

 

[Genus]

Nope. The Great British Bake Off is person-to-person competition. But they don't demand that they fight in the sarlaac pit to find out who won.

PP is supporting an NPC who "owns" a faction. PP is denuding the power of a faction whose NPC owner is against your owner's ideals. It's all Player vs NPC and Player w NPC.

That's a great point.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

It's a player-who-supports-a-Power against another-player-who-supports-a-different-Power system.

Because perhaps a large swathe of the player base simply isn't interested in Powerplay, other than perhaps obtaining those juicy Powerplay modules which were seeded within Powerplay as an encouragement to play Powerplay? Dunno.

And thus a player vs player system, in short: PvP whic hshould contain players ... not NPCs.

Also the answer is because there isn't an effective way to counter hostile players other than PvE ... which people who want to play PP (a PvP content) do not intend to do.

 

[Sterling MH]

False. it is much more effective to kill a player that has 5000 merits in his/her pocket than killing a NPC ship and gaining 30 "counter-"merits.

Nope, they just go and get another 5000 merits. All you do is delay the number of merits they supply. Moreover, apparently, your attempts to stop them will be futile because they got gud and it's easy to avoid interdiction, easy to avoid even being captured, and anyway, Open is so safe you hardly ever meet another player, so you will never be there to take those 5000 merits.

But you CAN guarantee 100 50-merit NPC kills. Just fly around pewpewing.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

False. it is much more effective to kill a player that has 5000 merits in his/her pocket than killing a NPC ship and gaining 30 "counter-"merits.
For example. ALD player A undermines Hudson System X and Hudson player B kills player A while player A has 5000 merits not handed in. The effective counter (especially with the new changes) would be between 2500 and 5000 merits, which equal 83 - 167 NPC kills.
You can easily tell that killing ANY (not a specific) player is way more rewarding as long as they have ~100 merits or more in their pockets. PP PvP is just about that. Merit bombing and prevention. Don't hand in merits right before the trigger kicks in and kill anyone that might be suspicious to carry a merits bomb.
ofcourse, doing that in Solo/PG is way more secure as the risk of being killed is much much lower in PvE than in PvP as NPCs do not reflect the same risks as players due to their underdeveloped tactics and loadouts.

That said, people that choose Solo/PG have no interest in PvP whatsoever so there is no reason for them to participate in PP (a PvP focused system) in the first place. Shifting it to Open only makes PP fair and brings it closer to the palyers who intend to actually compete wit hall consequences instead of just seeking personal advantages.

You're contradicting yourself here - players interested in powerplay modules would play Powerplay simply to get at the modules.

Also - doesn't matter if Powerplay is moved to Open only - preventing game clients connecting will be a thing and there's nothing Frontier can do about that other than completely rewriting the game client and back-end servers into a purely client-server based game.

 

[Genus]

And thus a player vs player system, in short: PvP whic hshould contain players ... not NPCs.

Also the answer is because there isn't an effective way to counter hostile players other than PvE ... which people who want to play PP (a PvP content) do not intend to do.

Good lord.

I've seen ideologies hijacked before, but never with that level of confidence, or you know...the other thing.

 

[Sterling MH]

Heck, if you're botting for merits, just wing up so all player slots are taken and you'll never meet another player.

Also, not really mentioned here, AFAIK, if you make CLogging a banning offence, you can poison the P2P connection with someone an make it look to your client like they clogged off and get them out of the game entirely. Griefus Maximus!

 

[Dietger]

Nope. The Great British Bake Off is person-to-person competition. But they don't demand that they fight in the sarlaac pit to find out who won.

PP is supporting an NPC who "owns" a faction. PP is denuding the power of a faction whose NPC owner is against your owner's ideals. It's all Player vs NPC and Player w NPC.

"But for me the best reward is how Powerplay changes combat," Lead Designer Sandro Sammarco says. "The Pilots Federation waives all penalties for engaging invaders in combat during times of war, so you'll have license to attack anyone from a rival power in your own territory without incurring a bounty. We're giving players a reason to engage in PVP against supporters of other factions, and a chance to feel like part of a team even if you prefer to play alone."

I think he was actually trying to get PvP going, even for the loners like me. The definition below isn't British then, but widely regarded.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Player(s) versus player(s), better known as PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants .^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player#cite_note-1"][1][/URL]} This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer-controlled opponents and/or players, which is referred to as player versus environment (PvE)

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

And thus a player vs player system, in short: PvP whic hshould contain players ... not NPCs.

Also the answer is because there isn't an effective way to counter hostile players other than PvE ... which people who want to play PP (a PvP content) do not intend to do.

Again, PP was only touted as providing an actual reason for players to PvP, it wasn't ever touted as direct-PvP only, as you are claiming. Read what Sandro said in 2015. Read it again. Understand.

 

[znôrt]

Give me a reason to want you happier at my expense.

that's how democracy works. i should know, i live in a region ruled for decades by a bunch of nationalist catholic corrupt bigots who never got more that 8% of votes in the area, but are voted en masse elsewhere in the country. that was just meant as an extreme example.

then again you could be a bit less selfish and consider the positive impact this could have on the game. if you're even serious, ofc. may i ask how much of your gameplay is devoted to powerplay, if you are even one of the few weirdos left playing that? what's exactly your big sacrifice here?

 

[Sterling MH]

And thus a player vs player system, in short: PvP whic hshould contain players ... not NPCs.

Then why are there NPC oppos? Why do you get missions to massacre the oppo NPCs? Surely if there was NEVER supposed to be NPCs, as you claim, in PP, why did they spend so much developer effort in making missions for PP factions that include NPCs as the target???

 

[kofeyh]

Nope, they just go and get another 5000 merits. All you do is delay the number of merits they supply. Moreover, apparently, your attempts to stop them will be futile because they got gud and it's easy to avoid interdiction, easy to avoid even being captured, and anyway, Open is so safe you hardly ever meet another player, so you will never be there to take those 5000 merits.

But you CAN guarantee 100 50-merit NPC kills. Just fly around pewpewing.

As you say, delay. That's a direct action. What happens when you can't delay them? And no one else can, including AI?

 

[Andovar]

Nope, they just go and get another 5000 merits. All you do is delay the number of merits they supply. Moreover, apparently, your attempts to stop them will be futile because they got gud and it's easy to avoid interdiction, easy to avoid even being captured, and anyway, Open is so safe you hardly ever meet another player, so you will never be there to take those 5000 merits.

But you CAN guarantee 100 50-merit NPC kills. Just fly around pewpewing.

I didn't realize gathering another 5000 merits was completely free and easy.
In any event, if getting around in open is so safe and easy, then why such the uproar over making PP open-only?

 

[Lateralus]

Private mode grind warfare is boring, it creates no or little drama, very little Youtube or Twitch content appeal and gives the game an image of inequity (private mode players have all the advantages), stagnation and tedium. Time to shake things up Fdev - make Powerplay worth doing for the players it was intended for in the first place.

 

[Sterling MH]

that's how democracy works.

This isn't a democracy. Try again. I still don't care if you want PP open only, any more than you care if it remains for all three modes. And that didn't change anything, it only showed WHY there's nothing you can say that will be anything other than "Me me me". Yet you hypocritically complain that this is only fine when you do it.

Give me a reason why I should support your wish and I'll support it.

If you don't, then I see no reason to support the change, and asserting that I am doing so for any other reason than I don't give a monkey's is just poisoning the well and ad homming. The fact is I DO NOT CARE. If you don'tcare to change my mind, then don't bother trying to tell me anything, and we're all better off.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Michael clarified, see above.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2138186&viewfull=1#post2138186

It was from 23.04.2015 and yes, Powerplay as it actually is designed right now WAS and IS working in solo and friends-only games. And here is actually the problem many people see in it.
How does it make PvP more intresting in these modes? And why should it remain in this state and never change?

 

[Sterling MH]

Private mode grind warfare is boring,

Don't do it PG then. But because YOU find it boring is no reason to stop me doing it.

Give me a reason to support the change for your sake and I will. But oyu not liking the game just has me saying "so leave". I'll still be here playing in Solo.It's only Open that needs more than one person playing.

 

[Richard Bentley]

This thread raises several of the key valid reasons why PP should not be made Open only.

The major myths it debunks are :
1) The idea that PP was "always supposed to be about PvP which can only really happen in open" when even Michael Brookes made it abundantly clear that it was not so.
2) The idea that actions within one mode cannot be countered in another, when clearly they can.
3) That issues with "bots" are going to be resolved by this.

One issue I have raised over in the focussed-feedback group relates to access from consoles. Although my main (Founder) account is on PC we have an Xbox also, which has ED on it. For various reasons we don't have an Xbox live subscription (mainly because it isn't worth it to us as we don't play lots of games on it). With the Xbox, although you can purchase, download and play games (even requiring online access) without a subscription, you are not able to access any multiplayer content. This means that when we log in to our Xbox ED game, the only mode available is Solo. Unless we change how we access the game via the Xbox and pay monthly for this, we cannot change to any other mode. Thus any "open-only" restriction being introduced will simply remove the affected parts of the game from us completely on that account.

What annoys me is the attitude of some of the "open-only" zealots whose view is that is just doesn't matter if some players are excluded from the game (in part or whole) as long as they get what they want.
It also annoys me that NPC-only based gameplay is deemed so inferior. Elite always used to be vs NPCs only. For me, the only balanced opponents ARE the NPCs as their level and behaviour is moderated by the game engine. Other CMDRs who specialise in PvP and seem to exist solely to harass other CMDRs (usually with overwhelming firepower and numbers) are hardly a balanced opponent are they?

If this ill-advised plan is allowed to proceed, it could be interesting if the players who have been forced into Open mode against their wishes don't quite respond as the PvP lobby are expecting. I can see them not necessarily engaging with the PvPers in the way that the PvPers might want (i.e. as compliant cannon fodder). In the end, it may be that nobody gets what they want from any of this, and maybe the PvPers will wish some of us had stayed in our Private Groups or Solo.....