Modes Why do you want me in Open?

[tolm]

I ask myself this when I see the "Open PvE" threads.

Isn't everyone who wants that already in Mobius?

Firstly, I have no idea if Mobius is available on PS4 ...

Secondly. Mobius is a closed group ... there's no chance of meeting "new" players, only those that have already registered. I want to be able to experience a CG with other players bringing goods to the station, bounty hunting Pirates, etc. Open offers a much greater chance of seeing that but, presently, carries too much of a risk for my liking.

Look, I quite enjoy playing Destiny every now and then. Raids are fun but you have to organise a group in advance, make sure everyone can agree a time, that your voice comms work, etc. That's Mobius. What I really enjoy about Destiny is that you can be wandering around a planet, taking care of weekly milestones or mission objectives or whatever, and a Public Event will drop in. Suddenly you and a bunch of other players that you don't know (and occasionally one or two that you do, which is very cool) have a shared objective and many emotes are thrown when the boss eventually drops. It's fun. It's PvE. And it's Open. I'd like a little of that sort of thing in Elite.

 

[tolm]

While time zones, platforms, and instances may make a given CMDR invisible to another given CMDR, it doesn't make the CMDR invisible to everyone. They can still be directly opposed by other people in their time zone / platform / whatever. This is quite different from solo / PG, where one can ensure that NOBODY can oppose them.

You know what, I'm almost (almost!) coming around to the idea that Open Only Power Play should be a thing. IF it becomes the "PvP Flag" for Open. You pledge to a Power? You're fair game for opposing Power CMDRs. BUT it has to come with better protection for players not pledged to a Power. If PvP players are going to be given their "meaningful PvP" then it's only fair to offer better protection for PvE players against "non-meanginful PvP", don't you think?

 

[Para Handy]

I ask myself this when I see the "Open PvE" threads.

Isn't everyone who wants that already in Mobius?

... However - if PvP is so great and there are so many people in there (Open Play) enjoying their interactions with each other - why the continual striving to get more people into Open Play?

If what the PvP combat pilot really wants is to be able to have enjoyable combat with other combat pilots who can give them a good fight, why would they then want people not at all interested / prepared / competent in combat to come along and clutter up their playing field?


BTW - Kudos on your RP pirate - I have no issues with that, unfortunately all it takes is for one murder-hobo to spoil the "environment".

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I ask myself this when I see the "Open PvE" threads.

Isn't everyone who wants that already in Mobius?

Mobius is 3 separate PGs due to membership limits, and there are other PGs with similar restrictions.
Currently, no-one in these separate groups will ever meet anyone from a different one.

 

[Frenotx]

You know what, I'm almost (almost!) coming around to the idea that Open Only Power Play should be a thing. IF it becomes the "PvP Flag" for Open. You pledge to a Power? You're fair game for opposing Power CMDRs. BUT it has to come with better protection for players not pledged to a Power. If PvP players are going to be given their "meaningful PvP" then it's only fair to offer better protection for PvE players against "non-meanginful PvP", don't you think?

Murderhobo killing sprees are far too feasible. This is something that needs dealing with regardless of the outcome of the powerplay proposal.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

As opposed to a pointless grind race with visible enemies?

A visible enemy underminer/fortifier is an enemy that you can kill, denying their merits/fortification cargo.
Of course, that also means you're visible to them, so they can kill you with an escorting wing.

It's almost like this open-only change facilitates good and meaningful PvP gameplay.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Let's not turn this into another Open PP thread. This thread is about me

For the record, I'll be happy to fly in Open if that gets implemented and I somehow find an interest in PP.

 

[tolm]

A visible enemy underminer/fortifier is an enemy that you can kill, denying their merits/fortification cargo.
Of course, that also means you're visible to them, so they can kill you with an escorting wing.

It's almost like this open-only change facilitates good and meaningful PvP gameplay.

I think "facilitates" is a little generous ... "Makes moderately less unlikely" seems a more reasonable description! Without dedicated PvP zones - where everyone who is interested in PvP deliberately goes - you're still relying on an awful lot of "dumb luck" in terms of being instanced with someone of an opposing Power and who is currently running a PP mission/task.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Most games can be considered "pointless", by some metrics. The challenge, risk, and resulting excitement of doing otherwise grindy activities in open, where you may face legitimate opposition, can make them feel less grindy.

I made this analogy before. Imagine two different versions of soccer: the one we have now, and another where each team is on a separate field. In both versions, the objective is to get as many goals as possible. You could argue it's just one big pointless grind to get goals. Consider which version is more exciting, though- the one where the teams are on the same field, trying to score while also directly opposing each other's attempts to score, or the one where the teams are on separate fields, simply engaged in a race to see who can kick a ball into an unguarded net the most?

There is a difference, there is an end to the game in football. There is no win or lose in PP.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

A visible enemy underminer/fortifier is an enemy that you can kill, denying their merits/fortification cargo.
Of course, that also means you're visible to them, so they can kill you with an escorting wing.

It's almost like this open-only change facilitates good and meaningful PvP gameplay.

It might facilitate PvP, but then seems to me its only existence become facilitating PvP for the sake of PvP. I still don't see a point in doing the PP itself. Sure, sign up, and use it as an excuse for PvP, but hells, that mindless grind, the running to stay in one place... no thanks.

I mean, couldn't they have come up with some other means of providing meaningful PvP to players?

 

[Para Handy]

While time zones, platforms, and instances may make a given CMDR invisible to another given CMDR, it doesn't make the CMDR invisible to everyone. They can still be directly opposed by other people in their time zone / platform / whatever. This is quite different from solo / PG, where one can ensure that NOBODY can oppose them.

It nevertheless means that there will still be opponents that someone cannot counter, i.e. the proposal does not make all opposition subject to your countering efforts.

Your second sentence is of course a given.

 

[Frenotx]

It nevertheless means that there will still be opponents that someone cannot counter, i.e. the proposal does not make all opposition subject to your countering efforts.

Your second sentence is of course a given.

Perhaps open PP won't make all actions counter-able by me PERSONALLY, but that's not the point. The point is they can be opposed by SOMEONE. Chances are, a given power will have players in all timezones, and on all platforms. I may not be able to see and oppose 100%'of my opponents, but the power as a team, will.

 

[Frenotx]

There is a difference, there is an end to the game in football. There is no win or lose in PP.

There is no end, but there are goals.. Beat such-and-such power, this cycle. Try to become the top power. Expand to such-and-such a system. You get the idea. Powerplay is still a competitive game.

 

[Han_Zen]

Let's not turn this into another Open PP thread. This thread is about me

For the record, I'll be happy to fly in Open if that gets implemented and I somehow find an interest in PP.

I use all the modes, depending on my mood. To be honest, I never notice much difference. I can easily forget which mode I'm in.
In the bubble, I'm usually in Open. It's nice to see someone else and say hi, once in a while.

I never get attacked in Open. Either I'm not interesting as a victim or there are very few player killers among those I get instanced with. I suspect both.

Why should you play in Open? Try it and see if you like it. If you do, you should play in Open.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… I may not be able to see and oppose 100%'of my opponents, but the power as a team, will.

It's just a perceived personal fairness.

The same fairness could be achieved by making PP solo only, btw.
The difference being that in solo-only PP would still work exactly as it works now and in open-only that "opposing" aspect is nothing more than method to prevent other players from doing tasks that are part of the PP mechanics.

Turning PP open-only doesn't make PvP part of the gameplay mechanics of PP.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

There is no end, but there are goals.. Beat such-and-such power, this cycle. Try to become the top power. Expand to such-and-such a system. You get the idea. Powerplay is still a competitive game.

Yes, and i suppose some people might enjoy that. I do wonder how many though. Were a lot of people not playing PP because of it being spread across modes, or was the mean reason its simply not engaging gameplay, with or without PvP and open only.

For me, i'm firmly in the camp of not being intersted in the gameplay itself, regardless of mode. PP missions are perhaps a step in the right direction, but i still want to see some sort of reason to put in the effort. Some win/fail conditions for powers. Some ability for new powers to rise up from the BGS.

 

[tolm]

It might facilitate PvP, but then seems to me its only existence become facilitating PvP for the sake of PvP. I still don't see a point in doing the PP itself. Sure, sign up, and use it as an excuse for PvP, but hells, that mindless grind, the running to stay in one place... no thanks.

I mean, couldn't they have come up with some other means of providing meaningful PvP to players?

Each Power Play cycle, spawn a PvP Combat Zone in the relevant system(s). Players from PP factions can pick up missions which reward Credits and High-Level Materials based on opposing Power ships destroyed within that CZ. Missions to have scaling rewards based on both Kills (more = good) and Deaths (less = good). Kills additionally reward PP Bonds which can be turned in for Credits and PP Influence to your chosen faction. On entering the CZ, your PP faction is automatically selected as your "side" and matchmaking occurs to group ships into "power brackets" to avoid Sidewinder vs Wing of Corvettes type scenarios.

I've suggested that before and got shouted down by someone who, essentially, said "No, I want to shoot trade ships carrying pamphlets". At some point you have to give up on trying to define "meaningful PvP" and just admit you want easy targets ...

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Each Power Play cycle, spawn a PvP Combat Zone in the relevant system(s). Players from PP factions can pick up missions which reward Credits and High-Level Materials based on opposing Power ships destroyed within that CZ. Missions to have scaling rewards based on both Kills (more = good) and Deaths (less = good). Kills additionally reward PP Bonds which can be turned in for Credits and PP Influence to your chosen faction. On entering the CZ, your PP faction is automatically selected as your "side" and matchmaking occurs to group ships into "power brackets" to avoid Sidewinder vs Wing of Corvettes type scenarios.

I've suggested that before and got shouted down by someone who, essentially, said "No, I want to shoot trade ships carrying pamphlets". At some point you have to give up on trying to define "meaningful PvP" and just admit you want easy targets ...

Open PP discussion is this way --->>> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/234-Beyond-Series-Focused-Feedback

 

[Frenotx]

Yes, and i suppose some people might enjoy that. I do wonder how many though. Were a lot of people not playing PP because of it being spread across modes, or was the mean reason its simply not engaging gameplay, with or without PvP and open only.

For me, i'm firmly in the camp of not being intersted in the gameplay itself, regardless of mode. PP missions are perhaps a step in the right direction, but i still want to see some sort of reason to put in the effort. Some win/fail conditions for powers. Some ability for new powers to rise up from the BGS.

I would prefer if powerplay had more win / loss feel to it. Set it up in seasons. Make it entirely possible for a power to be destroyed. Have a shorter time frame that people are competing in (like a few months), and dole out prizes to the winning power(s). There's a lot that can be done to make powerplay more interesting, but I believe shifting to open is an important foundational first step.

 

[tolm]

Open PP discussion is this way --->>> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/234-Beyond-Series-Focused-Feedback

Whilst I appreciate we're skirting the edges of the OP scope, nothing in my post directly related to Open Only Power Play. I'm talking about a specific feature to encourage consensual, meaningful PvP which I would want in order to discourage (or indeed, allow more draconian measures against) non-consensual PvP.