I don't understand the logic behind the "rebuy is too expensive" shouts

[Sylveria]

The loss isn't the issue, the issue if that you have to switch from fun PVP back to relatively unfun PVE grinding in order to recoup the loss. If you could just PVP all the time and make back enough money to potentially cover losses from that same activity, then that would be amazing.

Totally agree. I think PvP rewards should indeed be commensurate- with the the exception that there should be a mechanic to deter exploits, as in you can't kill the same CMDR within a 24 hour period in order to ensure you can't just get a group of "friends" together and get rich killing each other, or harass the same person over and over for credit rewards.

 

[Captain Willard]

You meant unfun pvp and fun pve.

 

[ilo]

Totally agree. I think PvP rewards should indeed be commensurate

Wait, why is that? imagine a bunch of players decided they want to play 'ram the planet' and of course, they die every time. Does the game have to change to accommodate this? does this have to be rewarded at all?

 

[Sylveria]

Wait, why is that? imagine a bunch of players decided they want to play 'ram the planet' and of course, they die every time. Does the game have to change to accommodate this? does this have to be rewarded at all?

Sure, as long as there's safeguards implemented to prevent exploitation of the mechanics.

I understand the sentiment- it should be it's own reward... however, Frontier apparently wants to cater to the PvP arena crowd because it somehow thinks its going to sustain funding and keep the lights on for the next few years. Loot Krait here we come.

Oh, wait- you mean they'll actually have to put effort forth to get that "reward" for their "risk"??

 

[Captain Willard]

A commensurate reward would be, an engied annie, fdl, vette killing a newbie hauler would mean -30 mil for the attacker.

 

[Duedy]

I think the logic is more based on time vs rebuy. As most people play elite for fun and things like work, kids and real life get in the way of it. If your managed to play for a hr and while doing something get blown up. you could easily wipe out your progression for that hr or even more. Lets take the example of a trade cutter. its about 13 mill rebuy. you need 2-3 trade trips (staking missions excluded) to make 1 rebuy.
I actually think in terms of pay vs rebuy its ok. But I can understand if you only had 1hr of game play available and in that time your 2nd trip costs you a rebuy, you have lost 13 mill + 4-6 mill in goods. So you need at least 5 incident free trips to recover.

Not everyone can git gud or just have run of bad luck it could be frustrating.

 

[Sylveria]

A commensurate reward would be, an engied annie, fdl, vette killing a newbie hauler would mean -30 mil for the attacker.

Or, an effective C&P rather than the weaksauce implementation that's meant to avoid dealing with the real issue entirely because "mah criminal gameplay must be validated!"

 

[ilo]

Sure, as long as there's safeguards implemented to prevent exploitation of the mechanics.

I understand the sentiment- it should be it's own reward... however, Frontier apparently wants to cater to the PvP arena crowd because it somehow thinks its going to sustain funding and keep the lights on for the next few years. Loot Krait here we come.

Oh, wait- you mean they'll actually have to put effort forth to get that "reward" for their "risk"??

The way I see combat pvp (lets not forget pvp means more than just pewpew) is probably biased, so take me with some (lot of) salt.

People that wants to have pvp combat and just that without the struggle of the rebuy is not really much different than people that wants to do exploration and just that without the need of refuelling.

The current game does not contemplate 'pvp combat and just that' as a gameplay without the costs of the rebuy associated to it the same way it doesn't support traveling the entire galaxy without refuelling.

People hesitant to understand this just lives in their own bubble.

Dont take me wrong, I love a pvp combat every now and then..

 

[Sylveria]

The way I see combat pvp (lets not forget pvp means more than just pewpew) is probably biased, so take me with some (lot of) salt.

People that wants to have pvp combat and just that without the struggle of the rebuy is not really much different than people that wants to do exploration and just that without the need of refuelling.

The current game does not contemplate 'pvp combat and just that' as a gameplay without the costs of the rebuy associated to it the same way it doesn't support traveling the entire galaxy without refuelling.

People hesitant to understand this just lives in their own bubble.

Dont take me wrong, I love a pvp combat every now and then..

I don't take you wrong at all... I think the Elite: Counterstrike is exactly what they expect. Respawn instantly with a new gear package and start the pew-pew all over again. Oh and let's not forget the Loot Krait from the Frontier Store, either.

Sound ridiculous? Wait till 2019.

 

[ilo]

Or, an effective C&P rather than the weaksauce implementation that's meant to avoid dealing with the real issue entirely because "mah criminal gameplay must be validated!"

It is utterly annoying being shot to death for a 400Cr bounty and moved 40Ly of your system. A bounty really needs to mean something..

 

[Ziljan]

Wait, why is that? imagine a bunch of players decided they want to play 'ram the planet' and of course, they die every time. Does the game have to change to accommodate this? does this have to be rewarded at all?

What's so hard to get? Every other activity gives CR rewards even ones that have zero risk associated. PVP power play bounties and criminal bounties exist, but they are usually so extremely low that they make Thargoid Scout hunting look downright profitable.

 

[Barking_Mad]

There's a section of pvp'ers who imo started playing the game relatively recently who aren't interested in playing Elite or PvP in the context of Elite - they just want the biggest, baddest ships ASAP so they can play 'Elite Arena' at will. Hence why rebuy is expensive. There was an up voted post on Reddit where someone 'would be honestly happy' if they could have all the ships in the game in CQC so they could live, die repeat all day without penalty.

 

[ilo]

I don't take you wrong at all... I think the Elite: Counterstrike is exactly what they expect. Respawn instantly with a new gear package and start the pew-pew all over again. Oh and let's not forget the Loot Krait from the Frontier Store, either.

Sound ridiculous? Wait till 2019.

There is CQC for that, but because they are all small ships, their egos have to be left out

 

[ilo]

What's so hard to get? Every other activity gives CR rewards even ones that have zero risk associated. PVP power play bounties and criminal bounties exist, but they are usually so extremely low that they make Thargoid Scout hunting look downright profitable.

Ziljan, not EVERY OTHER activity. Power Play bounties need some love. Criminal bounties are a joke. pvp combat is allowed within the game and constrained by its own rules. That doesn't mean PEW PEW all day and only should be rewarded, more.

Edit: actually, barnacles were there to be found, same as other geo and bio additions. They have no reward at all, and the cost in game cr and time is way bigger than pvp oriented efforts (at least you keep the result of engineering etc).

 

[Sylveria]

It is utterly annoying being shot to death for a 400Cr bounty and moved 40Ly of your system. A bounty really needs to mean something..

Why even have a "bounty" system at all, when it's basically ridiculous in implementation to begin with? There's no "security" status, there's no enforcement of any law- there's just a completely laughable LACK of one. So just remove the damned thing, give them their "gladiatorial arena" and be done with it all.

 

[Morbad]

For the record, I consider myself a PvPer and PvP would be vastly more rewarding if enemies could be financially crippled for their mistakes in combat; violence without the potential to do actual harm is about as pointless a thing as I can conceive of. Friendly PvP engagements need not be fought to ship destruction and I have very little sympathy for those who think PvP is too expensive.

General rebuy cost is a subjective value judgement.

Optimal rebuy cost should be a very objective economics issue.

I'd like it if they figured out an actual working economy, then calculated the production, delivery, and storage costs for various vessels/modules; fees Engineers would charge in licencing to allow replacement modules to be configured to their specifications; how much insurance would have to charge in fees to support the average claim rates, where that money comes from, how the insurer's accountants feel is the best way to squeeze everyone for more cash, etc.

My gut feeling is that rebuy costs are extremely low, especially for those that habitually destroy vessels. Most players complaining about the costs being too high likely have CMDRs who would rightly be utterly uninsurable and should be paying a 100+% rebuy until they can straighten out their records or steal a better identity or something.

Hell, I could easily see custom built replacements for Engineered modules needing significant transfer times as well as premium far above stock module cost.

 

[Grumpy181155]

To funny. Buy the biggest ship in the game, that you don't know how to fly and will end up collecting dust. Good job.

I actually suggested he A rate a Cobra and go bounty hunting but he thinks that doesn't provide as much cash to fuel his desire to own the 'best' ship in the game.

 

[ilo]

everything he says.

Well, that is refreshing.. usually is the other way around.

 

[Ziljan]

Ziljan, not EVERY OTHER activity. Power Play bounties need some love. Criminal bounties are a joke. pvp combat is allowed within the game and constrained by its own rules. That doesn't mean PEW PEW all day and only should be rewarded, more.

Edit: actually, barnacles were there to be found, same as other geo and bio additions. They have no reward at all, and the cost in game cr and time is way bigger than pvp oriented efforts (at least you keep the result of engineering etc).

PP gives salaries up to 50M CR. Assuming you did something dumb and died once a week, your Cutter/Vette Rebuy cost would be covered. However for PVP there is no "good effort" reward, only limited rewards for bringing down pilots that put the best Thargoids to shame in terms of Risk.

Hunting Barnacles is usually done in uninhabited space which means you get Exploration scan credits which aren't too shabby these days.

 

[ilo]

This is actually a very good idea - if you couple it with a non-insurance policy (ship is lost when dead, no rebuy screen)! Think about it for a moment...

I reckon it would be way easier if there is no insurance cover when you die in a non-anarchy system and you don't have the 'halp! call police!!' option set. Becaue, why wouldn't you?