DB interview in Variety.com from E3

[DeathStroke]

That would rather suggest you are misunderstanding what he's quoted as saying.

No, it's you. "Our expansions have been free, and the things you pay for are just vanity items, which in a multiplayer game just makes sense."
Horizons is not a vanity item, it's an expansion, it's not free. This is not a hard concept to grasp if you take your blinders off.

 

[babelfisch]

Lol, no, it was not updated (for free) on a semi-regular basis. That was the overdue and late updates that you had paid for back in December 2015! Amazing how some insist on trying to rewrite history.


Again, no, the expansions were never free and the game wasn't constantly updated for free as DB misstated in his interview.

Apart from the 10 expansions that have been released for free to the base game and Horizons. You paid for Planetary Landings, Engineers, SLF, Multicrew and a surprise, not for all the stuff I mentioned earlier.

 

[DoctorDanny]

'He misspoke, he was taken out of context, he didn't say those things, he meant something else' I'm surprised no-body has claimed it's 'fake news'. It's getting like Trumps White House in here....

Yes, cult of personality. Same with Star Citizen, Trumpists and religious nutcases.
You see it here all the time. When, for example, people are critical about the lack of communication by FD on the forums, you'll get posters telling them it's our own fault for being so critical in the first place. It's as if the developers are being regarded as people worthy of worhsip instead of a company that needs to be held accountable by it's customers.

We should be happy we got this game in the first place and not pay too much attention to its shortcomings. When people point back to the promises made during the kickstarter you get apologists explaining how David Braben didn't actually mean we'd be able to leave our ships and hunt dinosaurs on atmospheric planets. Just that he thought it would be kind of nice. Or better yet, that all the good things are still coming, and if we just keep spending our money in the online store the rapture will eventually happen.

 

[babelfisch]

Sorry but when something that someone says during an interview is put into quotation marks by a professional magazine that is a direct quote and should be accepted as such. Assuming there "must be some mistake" is just as ludicrous as assuming Braben is intentionally lying. Either of those options assumes either reckless behavior on the part of Braben or incompetence on the part of the magazine and either of those extreme positions are not reasonable.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the only issue worth discussing is why Braben apparently does not know that players paid $45 USD for Horizons when it was sold. Pretending he didn't say what he said however is not a reasonable claim to make here.

There are probably a few hundred thousand examples were professional magazines got something wrong, I wouldn't rule that option out completely. If we assume that DB isn't lying and that he is not a complete idiot the most probable scenario is that something was lost in translation, which happens quite regularly.

 

[DeathStroke]

There are probably a few hundred thousand examples were professional magazines got something wrong

Typos and misquoted numbers are one thing, entire sentences are another.

I wouldn't rule that option out completely.

If that's what actually happened (doubtful), then the 'journalist' should be fired, then flogged for gross incompetence.

something was lost in translation, which happens quite regularly.

"Lost in translation" is only applicable when at least one party does not natively speak the language that was spoken.


I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I do know this... He lied.

 

[GraXXoR]

Someone above was using the buzzword Cult of Personality regarding David Braben and holding themself aloof to it as if they are somehow special and immune, simultaneously alluding to the lesser intelligence of other forum members by implication.

I'm sorry but in this game and even in Star Citizen there is nowhere near the reverence required to uphold this rather hyperbolic claim.
Despite its cute sounding name "Cult of Personality" is far more sinister and is part of the controlled media surrounding the personality.
A CoP requires that the person themselves and their staff and the media propagate that belief and reinforce it and use what their leaders say as absolute law.

In both these games, the CEOs are respected members with a real world history of achievements, not some super heroes, nor do the companies push their CEOs out as such.

Chris plays a more public role and is hailed by some of his fans due to Wing Commander and so on and David is reverently talked about with regard to the seminal BBC Elite game.
Both of them have a certain charisma and enjoy a kind of rock star status.
But neither FDEV nor CIG qualify as real cults.
Instead there are fanbois who latch on to give themselves a cause to support and a focus, just like any media frenzy. It's totally different to a real cult so please show some perspective.
Also, watch Wild, Wild Country on Netflix if you want to learn what CoP really means.

So please, cut out the hyperbola and stop using buzzwords like you know what they mean.

With regard to the OP:
I would have to hear a voice recording of DB actually saying that before I could pass judgement on someone and call them a liar.


Edit: There is no comparison other than the most superficial between these two CEOs and a certain fluorescent personality mentioned a few posts up who uses every single opportunity to put himself on the bigliest most tremendous pedestal ever made. To say these forums are anything like that press room is a farcical and rather short sighted joke. THAT is a CoP... This is just white knight gathering.

 

[Devari]

There are probably a few hundred thousand examples were professional magazines got something wrong, I wouldn't rule that option out completely. If we assume that DB isn't lying and that he is not a complete idiot the most probable scenario is that something was lost in translation, which happens quite regularly.

What exactly is there to "translate"? It's a transcribed interview. The entire sentence is crystal clear and the statement Braben made is blatantly untrue.

Sorry, but either the magazine is utterly incompetent, Braben flat-out lied or he simply does not understand the basic fundamentals of how Elite was sold and marketed.

The first two options are not reasonable positions to take which only leaves the third possibility that Braben does not, in fact, have a proper understanding of how Elite has been developed and sold.

Under normal circumstances even this third option would be ridiculous for most CEOs to know so little about the game their company sells, except for the fact that we have a long history of Braben releasing videos where he talks about all sorts of gameplay features that have zero relation to the reality of Elite gameplay. There is such a fundamental disconnect between the game Braben talks about in videos (and yes, this includes the kickstarter videos) and the game that FD has actually made that I have no difficulty believing that he is utterly and completely disconnected from development. We also know that FD very quickly shifted revenue and development efforts from Elite to Planet Coaster development once Horizons launched. I have no difficulty believing that Braben was so focused on this transition and the company's overall profitability that he was not properly aware of how the game was sold at the time because he probably didn't care how it was generating revenue as long as there was money coming in to funnel into Planet Coaster development.

Essentially Braben's statement reflects a profound lack of development knowledge that is readily understandable in the context of FD's development history. The statement Braben made validates basically everything myself and many other posters have been saying about FD's and Braben's development decisions regarding Elite being intentionally neglected and underdeveloped so FD could focus on other projects. I could see this pattern years ago by looking at FD's Annual Reports and financial details but only now is it becoming clear from Braben's own statements exactly how disconnected he has been from Elite development.

 

[znôrt]

What exactly is there to "translate"? It's a transcribed interview. The entire sentence is crystal clear and the statement Braben made is blatantly untrue.

Sorry, but either the magazine is utterly incompetent, Braben flat-out lied or he simply does not understand the basic fundamentals of how Elite was sold and marketed.

The first two options are not reasonable positions to take which only leaves the third possibility that Braben does not, in fact, have a proper understanding of how Elite has been developed or sold.

wait a sec, isn't your second 'not reasonable position' identical to your 'third possibility'? so it can't be neither A nor B, so it must be B, or did i get that wrong?

(btw, braben is a ceo now. he speaks like a ceo. ceos usually talk nothing but crap. people should get over it).

 

[babelfisch]

What exactly is there to "translate"? It's a transcribed interview. The entire sentence is crystal clear and the statement Braben made is blatantly untrue.

Sorry, but either the magazine is utterly incompetent, Braben flat-out lied or he simply does not understand the basic fundamentals of how Elite was sold and marketed.

The first two options are not reasonable positions to take which only leaves the third possibility that Braben does not, in fact, have a proper understanding of how Elite has been developed or sold.

Again, I've seen more misquoted interviews than I can count. It happens quite regularly. For example it's entirely possible that this is partly an indirect quote and the author forgot to set the square brackets. It's also possible that they talked about the base game before and it isn't included in the transcription. There are lots of possibilities that are just as likely as DB forgetting about Horizons. Why do you believe the author absolutely must be more competent than the CEO of a multi million dollar company?

 

[babelfisch]

Typos and misquoted numbers are one thing, entire sentences are another.


If that's what actually happened (doubtful), then the 'journalist' should be fired, then flogged for gross incompetence.


"Lost in translation" is only applicable when at least one party does not natively speak the language that was spoken.


I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I do know this... He lied.

English isn't my first language, I always thought you can use translate when you are moving from audio to text. Anyway, what I implied should be quite clear even when you try to misunderstand it as hard as possible.

 

[Devari]

wait a sec, isn't your second 'not reasonable position' identical to your 'third possibility'? so it can't be neither A nor B, so it must be B, or did i get that wrong?

(btw, braben is a ceo now. he speaks like a ceo. ceos usually talk nothing but crap. people should get over it).

The first option ("The magazine is incompetent") isn't reasonable without some objective evidence to suggest that they are incapable of transcribing an interview properly.

The difference between the second option ("Braben lied") and the third option ("Braben does not understand how Elite was marketed") reflects the underlying reasons for the false statement he made. I don't consider the second option to be reasonable because there is no conceivable benefit for Braben to lie when the statement he made can be so readily disproven and would damage his reputation to do so. That is why I'm left with only the third option as being remotely reasonable. As I stated above, in most cases this option wouldn't be reasonable either but I have no problem believing that Braben has been so profoundly disconnected from Elite development that he may not have known or cared how it is being sold.

The statement he made is utterly untrue in either case, but I reserve the term "lied" for the case where someone intentionally makes a false statement. If someone states incorrect information that they believe to be true due to confusion or ignorance that is not the same as intentionally lying. As I said above, I am giving Braben the benefit of the doubt here that he did not lie but rather did not understand how Elite is marketed and sold. The statement he made is untrue in either case but he is only a "liar" if he knew the statement was untrue and made it anyways.

 

[mojonaut]

It's as if the developers are being regarded as people worthy of worhsip instead of a company that needs to be held accountable by it's customers.

It's exactly this, I've said it before, there are some for whom this isn't a hobby, a pastime, or a game it's a lifestyle. To them it's almost a religious fervor and like all religious nutjobs will defend to the hilt their 'religion' however damning the evidence is against it. Woe betide anyone who criticises another persons religion.

 

[Devari]

Yes, cult of personality. Same with Star Citizen, Trumpists and religious nutcases.

I would suggest here that blind loyalty to games like Elite and Star Citizen are less about a "cult of personality" and more about an underlying fear that criticizing the game will somehow damage or hurt the game that they have become dependent on for much of their recreational activities. Most of the ridiculous arguments I see on the forums both here and with SC relate more to an irrational need that certain players have to defend the game itself to the point of absurdity. Fundamentally this seems to relate to either a fear of losing something they have attached an overvalued importance to or due to a denial that something they enjoy could have any flaws that require improvement.

In a true "cult of personality" the focus is far more on being associated with the leader or public figure in question, i.e., they are defending someone they feel a strong need to be associated with in some manner. An attack on that person is indirectly an attack on their beliefs about that person and this is why they have to defend against those attacks. In that sense, however, almost all of their focus is on that individual.

I don't really think that most Elite or SC players are particularly devoted to either Braben or Roberts but rather to the games themselves. It seems to relate more to some need to defend the games beyond the point of reason because of an emotional reaction when the game is threatened in some manner. If the games were sold to different companies with different owners/CEOs I suspect that much of nonsensical arguments that emerge in response to valid criticism would still exist just as strongly. That wouldn't be the case with a true cult of personality as it would be more based on continued association with the individual who is being idolized or admired. Essentially you might argue that the "individual" they are idolizing is actually the game itself, as strange as that might sound, but that isn't really a true cult of personality.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's exactly this, I've said it before, there are some for whom this isn't a hobby, a pastime, or a game it's a lifestyle. To them it's almost a religious fervor and like all religious nutjobs will defend to the hilt their 'religion' however damning the evidence is against it. Woe betide anyone who criticises another persons religion.

Or it could be a bunch of nutters willing to jump on any perceived injustice to attack FDev.

Now I am not saying DB didn't lie, he may well have. But there are a whole heap of other possibilities which are much more likely.

The reason why I know this, is because I have worked in magazines area and know as a fact that interviews get edited to fit, parts get changed and that includes quoted parts too. It is common practice.

Has that has happened here? Possibly and probably. But that is no guarantee. Just using my own experience in the magazine industry.

So to say that he is lying is not possible without hearing the original transcript.

 

[bitstorm]

Braben's choice of wording is interesting :

"Our expansions have been free"

Not "Our expansions are free", which you'd expect, but "have been".


Might just be Braben's routine non-committal language, also may be an indicator of paid expansions in the (slow) pipeline.

 

[bitstorm]

Sorry, but either the magazine is utterly incompetent, Braben flat-out lied or he simply does not understand the basic fundamentals of how Elite was sold and marketed.

The first two options are not reasonable positions to take which only leaves the third possibility that Braben does not, in fact, have a proper understanding of how Elite has been developed and sold.

Could always ask the author, I mean he's right there on Twitter : https://twitter.com/aegies

 

[Devari]

So to say that he is lying is not possible without hearing the original transcript.

As I mentioned above, we don't know whether the statement was an intentional lie or was made due to a lack of knowledge, but we do know that it was an utterly untrue statement. In order for the statement in the interview to be some sort of "mistake" the entire sentence would have to have been edited to the point that it was replaced with one that conveys a completely different meaning. Sorry but if the magazine editor is so incompetent that they made such a colossal error then Braben should have been on the phone to the magazine editor as soon as it was published to demand a correction/retraction. The potential PR damage from such a statement being incorrectly attributed to Braben is absolutely massive. Stating we need to "hear the original the transcript" to reach any conclusion here is not reasonable. The simple fact that it has not been corrected by Braben at this point should be enough to tell you it was an accurate transcript. He may not know much about Elite development but he certainly knows that being misquoted would be something that he would want to fix immediately.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

As I mentioned above, we don't know whether the statement was an intentional lie or was made due to a lack of knowledge, but we do know that it was an utterly untrue statement. In order for the statement in the interview to be some sort of "mistake" the entire sentence would have to have been edited to the point that it was replaced with one that conveys a completely different meaning. Sorry but if the magazine editor is so incompetent that they made such a colossal error then Braben should have been on the phone to the magazine editor as soon as it was published to demand a correction/retraction. The potential PR damage from such a statement being incorrectly attributed to Braben is absolutely massive. Stating we need to "hear the original the transcript" to reach any conclusion here is not reasonable. The simple fact that it has not been corrected by Braben at this point should be enough to tell you it was an accurate transcript. He may not know much about Elite development but he certainly knows that being misquoted would be something that he would want to fix immediately.

These things do happen and the editor probably didn't realise that the change was so wrong in so many ways if that is what happened. Or it could be DB just wording something badly. Again nothing out of the ordinary. The man isn't a God and can make mistakes. I'm sure we have all worded things badly in the past.

 

[Devari]

Braben's choice of wording is interesting :

"Our expansions have been free"

Not "Our expansions are free", which you'd expect, but "have been".


Might just be Braben's routine non-committal language, also may be an indicator of paid expansions in the (slow) pipeline.

The statement he made is so clear that it can't possibly be misinterpreted. However, even if he said "our expansions are free" he is still making an incorrect statement because FD continues to sell Horizons as a separate expansion. You can check this right now by going to the FD store page and clicking on the link for Elite.

That's the Horizons expansion on sale right now for $29.99 USD.

That's the Horizons content being clearly described as an expansion so there's absolutely no uncertainty about what the Horizons content is.

And this is an advertisement FD posted on Facebook when their Lifetime Expansion Pass was being sold. In the store. For money. Not "free".

The statement Braben made is utterly untrue, both right now given that FD is continuing to sell Horizons and also in the past when both Horizons and the LEP were sold as separate products.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Braben's choice of wording is interesting :

"Our expansions have been free"

Not "Our expansions are free", which you'd expect, but "have been".


Might just be Braben's routine non-committal language, also may be an indicator of paid expansions in the (slow) pipeline.

Good catch. It might mean Beyond update lineup and also core game update lineup. And also indication that paid for updates are coming.

I fully agree that this is the case where journalist aren't exactly aware of what's been said and don't ask David to explain what he means by that. Calling David a liar is a rich. But then again, people like to claim other people "lie" in most of cases on Internet because hey who cares about details.

These things do happen and the editor probably didn't realise that the change was so wrong in so many ways if that is what happened. Or it could be DB just wording something badly. Again nothing out of the ordinary. The man isn't a God and can make mistakes. I'm sure we have all worded things badly in the past.

There are good reasons why there's such a thing as media training in big corporations. It is so easy to take things out of context or misunderstand and considering how short time it is to prep interview and go trough editor - editor should have caught this by the way if they would have done basic research, like visiting ED website - that people get paid incredible amounts of money just to keep check so there's no misunderstandings like this.