DB interview in Variety.com from E3

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Cmdr Ultra

Cmdr Ultra
The time has come for LEP holders to get a refund. Well those that want one anyway ;)

Then they can buy whatever DLC they want if and when it is released.

Also a refund will help them sleep better at night, no more worrying.

No more waking up screaming "Braben lied!" or "Space-legs!"
 

Devari

D
Max Factor said:
Nope that is not what I am saying at all. Nice try though.

And if you new what MVP means you wouldn't call it that either. Barebones is a better description.
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When you said that you "don't care" after I pointed out that Braben's mistake couldn't possibly be attributed to simply "wording something badly" as you claimed, then what exactly did you mean?

It's a colossal mistake for the CEO of a major company to give an interview to a magazine about his company and product yet not know basic, simple facts about how his games are being sold. To apparently be unware that customers have paid money for your product should be a major red flag for anyone who has purchased Elite, especially given the extremely low quality of the content they've been producing.

I don't know if you think that "barebones" is substantially better than "minimum viable product", they fundamentally both describe the minimum amount of effort that has been put into Horizons expansions and Beyond so far. Arguably much of what we got for Horizons wasn't even "viable" considering the stability issues and frequent bugs and in that sense calling it a minimum viable product is a rather generous assessment.

You really need to clarify what exactly it is that you don't care about, because Braben's statements are not some sort of minor issue that can simply be ignored.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
Cmdr Ultra said:
The time has come for LEP holders to get a refund. Well those that want one anyway ;)

Then they can buy whatever DLC they want if and when it is released.

Also a refund will help them sleep better at night, no more worrying.

No more waking up screaming "Braben lied!" or "Space-legs!"
Click to expand...

They'd be better off with a grip.
 

Devari

D
Max Factor said:
Nobody has defended him at all. What people have been saying is that there is not enough information to judge.
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A transcribed quote from Braben making a statement during an interview is somehow "not enough information to judge"?

Do you realize how ridiculous that claim sounds? You are trying to straight-up deny a clearly quoted statement that Braben made during an interview. You are suggesting that we somehow can't trust the interview but you can't actually explain why. What more information could you possibly need when we have his quotes directly from the interview?
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Devari said:
When you said that you "don't care" after I pointed out that Braben's mistake couldn't possibly be attributed to simply "wording something badly" as you claimed, then what exactly did you mean?

It's a colossal mistake for the CEO of a major company to give an interview to a magazine about his company and product yet not know basic, simple facts about how his games are being sold. To apparently be unware that customers have paid money for your product should be a major red flag for anyone who has purchased Elite, especially given the extremely low quality of the content they've been producing.

I don't know if you think that "barebones" is substantially better than "minimum viable product", they fundamentally both describe the minimum amount of effort that has been put into Horizons expansions and Beyond so far. Arguably much of what we got for Horizons wasn't even "viable" considering the stability issues and frequent bugs and in that sense calling it a minimum viable product is a rather generous assessment.

You really need to clarify what exactly it is that you don't care about, because Braben's statements are not some sort of minor issue that can simply be ignored.
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I don't care about what you write as it is devoid of any real reasoning.

Devari said:
A transcribed quote from Braben making a statement during an interview is somehow "not enough information to judge"?

Do you realize how ridiculous that claim sounds? You are trying to straight-up deny a clearly quoted statement that Braben made during an interview. You are suggesting that we somehow can't trust the interview but you can't actually explain why. What more information could you possibly need when we have his quotes directly from the interview?
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It's just as ridiculous as everybody else's claims. A quoted statement in a written interview is not necessarily correct as has been explained already a number of times. You dismiss those as much as you want, doesn't stop them from being valid.
 
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Eymerich

E
GraXXoR said:
Over reaction, much?

It's called giving someone the benefit of the doubt. You might try it sometime.

If I see him give the same answers in another interview, then the chance that he was misquoted is a lot less... or if I hear the actual interview and catch the whole conversation then I'll make my mind up.
Until then, what he purportedly said makes zero sense. There is no point him lying about such an obvious thing. He is not the OPOTUS.
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Well ya kno: he promised an offline mode after all so.

Anyway.

Over reaction? No, at all.

Over reaction for those which contiune to defend him (or Elite) an any cost which is usual on this forum (especially from someone which in my opinion is a dev in disguise)

He has just stated an untrue thing: period.

Unless the journalist says he was wrong, don't see any reason to change my mind on this topic.

If this bother some white knight or dev in disguise (not referring to you) that's not my problem at all
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Devari said:
It's worth pointing out that as I stated in my previous posts I am giving Braben the benefit the doubt here by assuming he is not intentionally lying and that he has instead made a statement that reflects a fundamental lack of understanding of his own game. Whether it's a deliberate lie or a false statement that was made out of ignorance does not in any way change the fact that it is a demonstrably and blatantly untrue statement.
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It's also worth pointing out that you were making a big deal about considering whichever explanation you consider is most "reasonable".

Is it reasonable to assume that DB isn't aware of the business-model of his own company, or that he has deliberately decided to lie about it?

Or, is it reasonable to assume that he's simply highlighting one aspect of that business model?

It's simply "spin".
It's been around for thousands of years, it's become vastly more popular in the last half-century and refusing to accept it's existence is going to make the world seem a very confusing and disingenuous place.
 

Devari

D
Max Factor said:
I don't care about what you write as it is devoid of any real reasoning.
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How does not caring about what I write change the reality of what I've been describing or provide any constrictive response to the discussion in this thread? And what exactly is it about my reasoning that you are having such difficulty understanding that your only response is to declare that you "don't care"? Is it the part about Braben's statement being blatantly untrue? Or the significance of the CEO of a major gaming company not knowing basic facts about a product his company has sold for 3.5 years?

Max Factor said:
It's just as ridiculous as everybody else's claims.
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No, what you're suggesting is really the most ridiculous claim in this thread because we have zero reason to believe that the interview was transcribed with such incompetence that it would have somehow turned a correct statement from Braben into a completely untrue and factually incorrect statement. Even the suggestion that Braben is somehow intentionally lying, which I still consider ridiculous, is at least slightly more plausible than what you are claiming.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Devari said:
How does not caring about what I write change the reality of what I've been describing or provide any constrictive response to the discussion in this thread? And what exactly is it about my reasoning that you are having such difficulty understanding that your only response is to declare that you "don't care"? Is it the part about Braben's statement being blatantly untrue? Or the significance of the CEO of a major gaming company not knowing basic facts about a product his company has sold for 3.5 years?



No, what you're suggesting is really the most ridiculous claim in this thread because we have zero reason to believe that the interview was transcribed with such incompetence that it would have somehow turned a correct statement from Braben into a completely untrue and factually incorrect statement. Even the suggestion that Braben is somehow intentionally lying, which I still consider ridiculous, is at least slightly more plausible than what you are claiming.
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I haven suggested anything, that is what you and others just can't they your head round. What I have said are possible reasons, just as much as it being a complete lie is a possible reason.

As to the truth of the matter, nobody will know for sure until they listen to the transcript, and even then it could be just an honest mistake.

So this whole conversation/thread is just a pointless waste of time and no matter what people say, it's all meaningless.
 
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Devari

D
Stealthie said:
It's also worth pointing out that you were making a big deal about considering whichever explanation you consider is most "reasonable".

Is it reasonable to assume that DB isn't aware of the business-model of his own company, or that he has deliberately decided to lie about it?

Or, is it reasonable to assume that he's simply highlighting one aspect of that business model?

It's simply "spin".
It's been around for thousands of years, it's become vastly more popular in the last half-century and refusing to accept it's existence is going to make the world seem a very confusing and disingenuous place.
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Braben cannot literally say "Our expansions have been free" when there is literally one for sale in the FD store right now without one of two things occurring:

1. He is lying.
2. He is unaware that the Horizons expansion for Elite is being sold right now.

If Braben is intentionally making what he knows to be a false statement, then it is a blatant lie. I've already posted screenshots from FD's store where Horizons is being sold right now and is described on their website as an expansion. It's not "spin" when the statement is utterly and blatantly false. I'm assuming instead that he is somehow unaware of how Horizons is currently being sold, because of all the reasons I've already stated in my prior posts.
 
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SP_Predicador

SP_Predicador
This is easy, if the error of the interview is from the journalist, the journal will rectify because they (Frontier) (should and) will demand it. If there is no rectification, it will be because they do not demand it, because it will be true, and can be proved. If it's true, it's Braben's mistake. Any claim will be confronted with the recordings. As long as the article is not rectified, the appointment of the interview should be considered good.

I prefer to wait a few days before unnecessarily insulting the professionalism of the journalist. For example, if in a week, Variety not rectifies, we'll know which option (true-false) is right.
 
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Stigbob

Stigbob
SP_Predicador said:
This is easy, if the error of the interview is from the journalist, the journal will rectify because they (Frontier) (should and) will demand it. If there is no rectification, it will be because they do not demand it, because it will be true, and can be proved. If it's true, it's Braben's mistake. Any claim will be confronted with the recordings. As long as the article is not rectified, the appointment of the interview should be considered good.

I prefer to wait a few days before unnecessarily insulting the professionalism of the journalist. For example, if in a week, Variety not rectifies, we'll know which option (tru-false) is true.
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Or not because nobody actually involved is bothered and it's really not a big deal.
 

Devari

D
Max Factor said:
I haven suggested anything, that is what you and others just can't they your head round. What I have said are possible reasons, just as much as it being a complete lie is a possible reason.
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You haven't provided any plausible reasons where the interview could have been transcribed so incompetently to change the meaning of what Braben stated to such an extent. We don't even have any reason to believe the interview was edited at all as it was presented as direct quotes. It should have simply been transcribed directly from his statements, not paraphrased or edited in some manner that would change the meaning or content in any way.

Max Factor said:
As to the truth of the matter, nobody will know for sure until they listen to the transcript, and even then it could be just an honest mistake.

So this whole conversation/thread is just a pointless waste of time and no matter what people say, it's all meaningless.
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Based on that "argument", nobody actually knows that Braben is actually the person we've seen in the kickstarter videos either. Do you know Braben personally? Can you confirm it was actually him, and not someone who just looks like him? Have you met him in person, personally seen his birth certificate, interviewed family members, compared fingerprints and done a forensic DNA analysis? Even then, do you really know for sure? Are you actually qualified to verify those documents or understand those tests? Do you even understand what DNA actually is or how fingerprints are compared? Do you understand the possible limitations of those methods and how they could possibly be in error?

Using your type of ridiculous argument no one actually knows when Braben says or does anything because you can't personally confirm his identity in any of the interviews.

That is the type of absurd argument you are trying to make here. You are holding an official, published interview in a professional online magazine to an impossible standard of "verification" simply because you don't want to accept the consequences of the statement Braben made during the interview.
 

Devari

D
Stealthie said:
Yes, he literally CAN say that when 3.0 was free.

You just seem to be refusing to acknowledge that.
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The statement "Our expansions have been free" remains a blatantly false and untrue statement given that they are selling Horizons in the store right now.

How could you possibly not understand that?
 
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