A request for FDev; please provide an update regarding Logging/Combat Logging

[EponymousCowherd]

The two posters above this post; you have valid points. Not knowing if the next interdiction will be a killer. The message before and after does make a big difference though. I'm all for promoting piracy in ED. In fact this thread has turned in to a good opportunity to promote it.

As the original post stated though, isn't anyone just a little big interested on what or if FDev are doing in the background regarding Logging/Combat logging? I know I am.

As I said, I think there is very little they can do. It's been a big problem since the game was launched and lengthy "discussions" have occurred on this forum on the subject since I joined almost 3 years ago about the subject. If they haven't fixed it in that time, and knowing how player to player interactions are handled at the network level, I doubt there is a workable fix.

The obvious solution is to hunt down the lolz-killers and kill them until they learn their lesson or are reduced to a loan sidewinder.

Thieves' Guilds are a thing in fantasy games, and those who flout the Guild rules are hunted mercilessly by Guild members. Maybe a Pirates' Guild for ED is the way forward?

 

[fishgotnosole]

Thieves' Guilds are a thing in fantasy games, and those who flout the Guild rules are hunted mercilessly by Guild members. Maybe a Pirates' Guild for ED is the way forward?

 

[verminstar]

The two posters above this post; you have valid points. Not knowing if the next interdiction will be a killer. The message before and after does make a big difference though. I'm all for promoting piracy in ED. In fact this thread has turned in to a good opportunity to promote it.

As the original post stated though, isn't anyone just a little big interested on what or if FDev are doing in the background regarding Logging/Combat logging? I know I am.

I honestly dont think theres anything they can do...I honestly believe the pvp community should have sorted out their own rank and file members and gotten themselves organized...but they didnt and still wont.

We also have well known griefers and gankers being given a hero status among pvprs...that sends out the message that their behaviour is not only tolerated, but is encouraged and popular. Did that thought ever occur? Think about it...preferably with a rational mindset and think about what sorta message that sends out. These morons are killing your game...why wont ye guys do something about it? PVPrs are, if nothing else, the best qualified fer sorting yerselves out...but most cant even admit the problem is theirs to fix in the first place and demand frontier achieve the impossible.

Criminal organisations police their own ranks...they punish those who step outta line and punish them hard to make an example outta them. There is a code between criminals...an unspoken law if ye like...take the mafia fer example. They sort themselves out...they ddnt go whining to the authorities to make the bad elements better, they take the initiative and give the perp a pair of concrete boots and a swim in deep water...if theyre lucky that is.

Even paramilitary organisations...they police their own members, always have and always will because its the only way to keep discipline in guys who have never been an actual soldier and dont know how to toe the line.

I mean seriously...do pvprs in elite need their hands held and given what are simple instructions a 5 year old could understand? Bunch o guys role playing criminality and none of ye have the faintest clue how to behave like one...just a mob of undisciplined monkeys with guns and all the wit of a one legged marathon runner.

Thats not an attack on you personally...its aimed at the entire pvp community. I role play too so I understand yer own position...I understand its frustrating and I can relate from past experience. I may be a carebear here in this game, but my background is in pvp based games so I do understand the concerns.

To use one more example...in eve in the old corp I played in, we used dummy accounts to infiltrate carebear corps and destroy them from the inside...we setup ganks in high sec space, locked down entire regions with bubbles and killed everything and everyone without mercy or warning. We were one the worst examples of criminality in the game at that time...any of our members who stepped outta line were dealt with very harshly and then named and shamed.

Why does that not happen here? Cos frontier dont like eve very much and dont want this game to become an eve clone. Thing is, eve has been the most successful space based MMO ever fer 16 years and still going strong...pvp is sorted there because the game is designed around it. In elite, pvp is trying to be designed into it which is the exact opposite, so the game design is already working against ye.

This game doesnt need to copy eve, but now and then its ok to take a leaf outta their book and work with it because it works. Organise yerselves...and police yerselves. Its been done successfully in other games...all thats missing here is the motivation and willingness of the players to take the intiative themselves...dont wait fer frontier, they about as useful as a chocolate teacup truth be told ^

 

[Mole HD]

I honestly dont think theres anything they can do...I honestly believe the pvp community should have sorted out their own rank and file members and gotten themselves organized...but they didnt and still wont.

We also have well known griefers and gankers being given a hero status among pvprs...that sends out the message that their behaviour is not only tolerated, but is encouraged and popular. Did that thought ever occur? Think about it...preferably with a rational mindset and think about what sorta message that sends out. These morons are killing your game...why wont ye guys do something about it? PVPrs are, if nothing else, the best qualified fer sorting yerselves out...but most cant even admit the problem is theirs to fix in the first place and demand frontier achieve the impossible.

Criminal organisations police their own ranks...they punish those who step outta line and punish them hard to make an example outta them. There is a code between criminals...an unspoken law if ye like...take the mafia fer example. They sort themselves out...they ddnt go whining to the authorities to make the bad elements better, they take the initiative and give the perp a pair of concrete boots and a swim in deep water...if theyre lucky that is.

Even paramilitary organisations...they police their own members, always have and always will because its the only way to keep discipline in guys who have never been an actual soldier and dont know how to toe the line.

I mean seriously...do pvprs in elite need their hands held and given what are simple instructions a 5 year old could understand? Bunch o guys role playing criminality and none of ye have the faintest clue how to behave like one...just a mob of undisciplined monkeys with guns and all the wit of a one legged marathon runner.

Thats not an attack on you personally...its aimed at the entire pvp community. I role play too so I understand yer own position...I understand its frustrating and I can relate from past experience. I may be a carebear here in this game, but my background is in pvp based games so I do understand the concerns.

To use one more example...in eve in the old corp I played in, we used dummy accounts to infiltrate carebear corps and destroy them from the inside...we setup ganks in high sec space, locked down entire regions with bubbles and killed everything and everyone without mercy or warning. We were one the worst examples of criminality in the game at that time...any of our members who stepped outta line were dealt with very harshly and then named and shamed.

Why does that not happen here? Cos frontier dont like eve very much and dont want this game to become an eve clone. Thing is, eve has been the most successful space based MMO ever fer 16 years and still going strong...pvp is sorted there because the game is designed around it. In elite, pvp is trying to be designed into it which is the exact opposite, so the game design is already working against ye.

This game doesnt need to copy eve, but now and then its ok to take a leaf outta their book and work with it because it works. Organise yerselves...and police yerselves. Its been done successfully in other games...all thats missing here is the motivation and willingness of the players to take the intiative themselves...dont wait fer frontier, they about as useful as a chocolate teacup truth be told ^

Going back further than Eve...Jumpgate had the same self policing authority. PvP attacks in registered space just didn't happen because the penalties were so severe. All 3 factions were separated by unregistered space (where the pirates and aliens lived.) All trade between factions had to traverse that unregistered space leaving it open to anything goes, and P.O.D (pay or die) was the order of the day. Mostly, folks in heavy cargo tows just paid up and went on their way sans shields. It was an ideal setup...pirates got their booty, haulers and traders kept the cargo but were a bit out of pocket.

If the pirate factions got outta hand and started shooting up noobs or stations in Faction ruled space...all 3 main factions used to gather a flotilla of navy ships and blockade the Pirate bases in the anarchy of unregistered space until someone cried Mother...a tax of in game credits for the bad behaviour was extracted from the naughty Pirates (which all went to their victims as reparation... plus an extra 10% of the total amount as an added bad boy tax for us to pay for repairs and ammo) and everyone went back about their business.

 

[Billkwando]

Going back further than Eve...Jumpgate had the same self policing authority. PvP attacks in registered space just didn't happen because the penalties were so severe. All 3 factions were separated by unregistered space (where the pirates and aliens lived.) All trade between factions had to traverse that unregistered space leaving it open to anything goes, and P.O.D (pay or die) was the order of the day. Mostly, folks in heavy cargo tows just paid up and went on their way sans shields. It was an ideal setup...pirates got their booty, haulers and traders kept the cargo but were a bit out of pocket.

If the pirate factions got outta hand and started shooting up noobs or stations in Faction ruled space...all 3 main factions used to gather a flotilla of navy ships and blockade the Pirate bases in the anarchy of unregistered space until someone cried Mother...a tax of in game credits for the bad behaviour was extracted from the naughty Pirates (which all went to their victims as reparation... plus an extra 10% of the total amount as an added bad boy tax for us to pay for repairs and ammo) and everyone went back about their business.

That sounds like a really neat system!

 

[NewBlacksmurf]

As I said, I think there is very little they can do. It's been a big problem since the game was launched and lengthy "discussions" have occurred on this forum on the subject since I joined almost 3 years ago about the subject. If they haven't fixed it in that time, and knowing how player to player interactions are handled at the network level, I doubt there is a workable fix.

The obvious solution is to hunt down the lolz-killers and kill them until they learn their lesson or are reduced to a loan sidewinder.

Thieves' Guilds are a thing in fantasy games, and those who flout the Guild rules are hunted mercilessly by Guild members. Maybe a Pirates' Guild for ED is the way forward?

OR maybe....the solution is to remove Open entirely and instead have rule based Open Servers so its clear.
(If the devs are up for a massive change to player interactions with inclusive choice based interactions and clear intentions required by both players.)

Just an idea and that would even allow for solo to no longer exist...in a sense

 

[Mole HD]

That sounds like a really neat system!

Jumpgate got a lot of stuff right...considering I was playing it in the 90's

 

[RagingxPenguin]

They won't reply.


They have zero intentions of combating it.

 

[RadMadMonk3y]

What about if the log out menu was removed unless you were docked at a station or landed on a planet?
in most games you would like to leave the game when your in a safe place.
Also if you were flying your own spaceship would you just go “Oh look it’s bedtime” Stand up and leave your ship wherever it may be at that time. I always dock or land somewhere. When I first started playing I wasn’t sure my ship would disappear when I logged off.

Who really has internet in 2018 that is dropping connection all the time?
If you do live in such an area then tough s**t, why should everyone else suffer.

 

[Godnamedthor]

What about if the log out menu was removed unless you were docked at a station or landed on a planet?
in most games you would like to leave the game when your in a safe place.
Also if you were flying your own spaceship would you just go “Oh look it’s bedtime” Stand up and leave your ship wherever it may be at that time. I always dock or land somewhere. When I first started playing I wasn’t sure my ship would disappear when I logged off.

Who really has internet in 2018 that is dropping connection all the time?
If you do live in such an area then tough s**t, why should everyone else suffer.

And what would happen to your ship if your extremly stable internet connection breaks?
Just stay there wherever it is? Let's say a lightbulb in your house goes pop, the fuse trips out, Xbox off.
60mil Rebuy, or 6 month worth exploration lost. I'd like to see your face....
That's just plain stupid. There has to be done something but not this.

 

[fishgotnosole]

Not to mention how many times the game itself crashes to dashboard or how often XBL service has problems.

None of that really matters though. History has shown that Frontier don't want to do anything about combat logging. Numerous players on all three platforms had filled out reports with video evidence and nothing ever becomes of it. If they won't address examples of it under the current system why would anyone imagine that they would take time away from other development and bug fixing to change the system.

This whole thread is 12 pages of beating a dead horse. JUST LET IT GO already.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stasis Wolf again." [blah]

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

And what would happen to your ship if your extremly stable internet connection breaks?
Just stay there wherever it is? Let's say a lightbulb in your house goes pop, the fuse trips out, Xbox off.
60mil Rebuy, or 6 month worth exploration lost. I'd like to see your face....
That's just plain stupid. There has to be done something but not this.

I live just outside of an Major city in Mexico called Mazatlan. Though the tourist area has Fiber Optic availability, and the majority of the rest of the city has access to a broad band availabilty via the local cable company. Those of us on the outside of town and not every where have basically just a dial up connection. My barrio (neighborhood) due to it's size only has one hub in which every house hold which numbers 20 and growing slowly is connected. If it weren't for most having access via their cell phones. There would be more usage, and ones connection would be even worse than it is presently. In addition to the entire system being antiquaited, if and when too many people attempt to use the internet, it crashes. In the summer, because there's no school, my connection is broke a dozen times a day. I'm am not the only one (ED Player) in the world that has such poor connection. It's something none of us like, but it's better than nothing. So punishing us, would suck.

 

[RadMadMonk3y]

Come on the game doesn’t crash that much. Sure the game has crashed, I’ve never been in combat when it happened. If it crashes and your not when you log back in your ship is exactly where you left it. If your exploring you will be fine.
The point of insurance is you have to pay it when your ship is destroyed, if you can’t afford the insurance then don’t fly the ship.
Apart from the big 3 insurance is 10 to 15 million at most. A few hours of play can get that back. Combat is supposed to be dangerous and have risks.
I think once people loose a few ships it makes people better players, don’t fly with weak shields or more aware in CG’s.
If you are that worried then maybe you should be in the safety of solo. Too many people don’t seem to want it to be fixed.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Yeah I'm with you mate, I would pirate, but they log, so eh, what is there apart from making them log?

It needs fixing. Moreover, on the PS4 version, the game knows when the user menu is opened as if you open it in jump, the game cuts the trottle to zero so you dont faceplant a star. So at least on that platform its an easy fix. The game registers the menu, sends a request to the server asking for verification of damage being appied, the server returns a yes on FDevs side, then if the player randomly DC's at that point it gets flagged. When that player logs back in, the server sends the flag client-side and the culprit can't log into open for 1hr.

Simples. No idea how the same methodology would work on the other platforms not having played them so not being able to say if minimising the window or opening the XBL menu has the same throttle trigger in game.

 

[Godnamedthor]

Come on the game doesn’t crash that much. Sure the game has crashed, I’ve never been in combat when it happened. If it crashes and your not when you log back in your ship is exactly where you left it. If your exploring you will be fine.
The point of insurance is you have to pay it when your ship is destroyed, if you can’t afford the insurance then don’t fly the ship.
Apart from the big 3 insurance is 10 to 15 million at most. A few hours of play can get that back. Combat is supposed to be dangerous and have risks.
I think once people loose a few ships it makes people better players, don’t fly with weak shields or more aware in CG’s.
If you are that worried then maybe you should be in the safety of solo. Too many people don’t seem to want it to be fixed.

Hey, I'm all for fixing CL, but what you propose is utter nonsense and so are your arguments.
How would losing a ship because of a network failure "make someone better"
Yet you didn't tell us what should happen to the players ship if he/she gets disconnected outside of docked or landed.
I guess you just want the ship to stay in game without control.
I can eat a rebuy, but why should I if the game crashed?
What have shields to do with this subject?
And even while exploring there can be situations where your proposed solution would mean a loss of the ship.
And , guess what, Solo needs a connection too, genius, what means the same outcome in a unforced/unintended disconnect.
I agree with your intentions, fixing CL.
But I can tell what's crap when I read it.

 

[Munster26]

Hey, I'm all for fixing CL, but what you propose is utter nonsense and so are your arguments.
How would losing a ship because of a network failure "make someone better"
Yet you didn't tell us what should happen to the players ship if he/she gets disconnected outside of docked or landed.
I guess you just want the ship to stay in game without control.
I can eat a rebuy, but why should I if the game crashed?
What have shields to do with this subject?
And even while exploring there can be situations where your proposed solution would mean a loss of the ship.
And , guess what, Solo needs a connection too, genius, what means the same outcome in a unforced/unintended disconnect.
I agree with your intentions, fixing CL.
But I can tell what's crap when I read it.

There too many ppl on this game that live in a PVP bubble.
Like the griefers who message "why you playing in open then?"
When I get salty.
Because there is a lot more to in this game than gank weak players and fight everyone else. That's why.
C logging isn't half as big a problem as the culture of murderers. Somehow they're being treated badly by people who object to being murdered.
Of course there are many good players and lots of interactions are mutually beneficial.
I think that "ganker culture" breeds the contempt and disrespect.
Dishonorable conduct is the norm in this game and clogging is the a small step on from that.

It isn't a problem that can be fixed with a software update.
It's a social problem.

In my opinion.

 

[fishgotnosole]

There too many ppl on this game that live in a PVP bubble.
Like the griefers who message "why you playing in open then?"
When I get salty.
Because there is a lot more to in this game than gank weak players and fight everyone else. That's why.
C logging isn't half as big a problem as the culture of murderers. Somehow they're being treated badly by people who object to being murdered.
Of course there are many good players and lots of interactions are mutually beneficial.
I think that "ganker culture" breeds the contempt and disrespect.
Dishonorable conduct is the norm in this game and clogging is the a small step on from that.

It isn't a problem that can be fixed with a software update.
It's a social problem.

In my opinion.

Spot on there. Rep'd +1

 

[verminstar]

I think once people loose a few ships it makes people better players, don’t fly with weak shields or more aware in CG’s.
If you are that worried then maybe you should be in the safety of solo. Too many people don’t seem to want it to be fixed.

Just on this note, ye think wrong in my case...after taking a double hit this past week, Ive actually been killed more times than I saw an o7. I played this game fer two years in solo and only moved back to open the last 6 months or so...now back in solo mode cos really whats the point? What am I missing in open play? Theres no social interaction going on at all...most players either just ignore ye or try and run from ye cos they just as paranoid.

So on that note, Im gathering me stuff up and heading back to colonia cos Ive had about as much as I can stomach in the bubble.

Ill never clog in open which means Ill take the hits which I did...but there wont be another chance at doing it to me so I really, really dont care if they fix it at all...because its not an issue that affects me in solo. And exactly why would I care at this point what happens to the very players who put me in solo mode? Should I care about their game when they quite obviously dont care about mine?

Its not that I dont want it to be fixed...I literally just dont care anymore cos open players brought this upon themselves ^

 

[Mole HD]

There too many ppl on this game that live in a PVP bubble.
Like the griefers who message "why you playing in open then?"
When I get salty.
Because there is a lot more to in this game than gank weak players and fight everyone else. That's why.
C logging isn't half as big a problem as the culture of murderers. Somehow they're being treated badly by people who object to being murdered.
Of course there are many good players and lots of interactions are mutually beneficial.
I think that "ganker culture" breeds the contempt and disrespect.
Dishonorable conduct is the norm in this game and clogging is the a small step on from that.

It isn't a problem that can be fixed with a software update.
It's a social problem.

In my opinion.

...and duly repped [up]

 

[Thepirateorc]

There too many ppl on this game that live in a PVP bubble.
Like the griefers who message "why you playing in open then?"
When I get salty.
Because there is a lot more to in this game than gank weak players and fight everyone else. That's why.
C logging isn't half as big a problem as the culture of murderers. Somehow they're being treated badly by people who object to being murdered.
Of course there are many good players and lots of interactions are mutually beneficial.
I think that "ganker culture" breeds the contempt and disrespect.
Dishonorable conduct is the norm in this game and clogging is the a small step on from that.

It isn't a problem that can be fixed with a software update.
It's a social problem.

In my opinion.

there are a lot of terrorists in this game however that will not be an excuse for people to clog, griefing is being dealt with by the c and p but what getting done about combat logging, there has been no update, no plan on how fdev will tackle this issue and that's what is annoying, the fact they are willing to deal with those who kill in this game but not deal with those who cheat in this game.