Is Chapter 4 "make it or break it" for you?

[Marc_Hicks]

One of my biggest worries about the Q4 update is game balance. Frontier has a habit of implementing new features with terrible balance issues. See how the engineers went live, or see how ice mining has been horribly unprofitable ever since it was first implemented years ago, or see how pathetic the income is from salvaging, or see how bad killing Thargoids still pays, and so on and so on. Even when Frontier does a good job with mechanics, they historically fail at balancing risk vs reward or just making actions in the game rewarding.

If the new mining stuff pays like crap then most people won't bother with it. If ice mining is still the worst paying aspect of the game after 3.3 then miners still won't bother visiting ice rings. If the new exploration mechanics and content is just for sightseeing then again many people won't waste their time on it. Frontier needs to not only develop fun mechanics for Q4, they also need to make them compelling from a rewards point of view, something they often blunder with.

See, monetary rewards mean next to nothing to me in this game.......& never really have. If anything I tend to feel its too easy to make money now, to the point where its effectively meaningless. No, what will get me to use any part of the game more is if the mechanics are engaging & have at least some element of skill to them. Not just repetitive monotony. Payouts are no more than the "cherry on top" of that scenario. The same is true with missions. Making these involve some level of skill (outside of mere combat) is precisely what will make missions more engaging for me, not how many credits they pay. Salvage Missions & Scan Missions that actually require me to use exploration tools to find what I am looking for. Missions that require me to use a combo of stealth & hacking to complete the task unnoticed (maybe even with a bonus for doing so). That's what I am talking about.

To use my current Skyrim Game as an analogy. My Character is a build that can literally just "hack & slash" her way through any dungeon/quest. Yet the quests I find I enjoy the most are those where I make use of sneaking, lock-picking & the occasional sneak attack in order to achieve successful completion. Now if only E: D missions had stuff like that......I'd be a very happy man indeed.

 

[StuartGT]

So it's more about the money & less about happy customers? Good enough is good enough seems to be what you are saying, would that be a fair assessment?

My second sentence literally begins with "Because if they enjoy the game..." ("they" is referring to the ex-customers returning, from the first sentence). Enjoy = happy.

If it interests you I had spent around £170 on skins before I stopped buying them as a passive protest. I've since spent £25 on cosmetics as a thank you to FDev for their approach to the 5-for-1 engineering cheat, and I recently bought a £4 coat, pants & boots set for my cmdr because I was starting to think it looked like I was sitting in my underwear.

Over the past couple of years I could have spent considerably more. I have continued to play though, as I mentioned earlier in the thread I have no significant issues with the game itself, only a few suggestions on how to make it 'even better'.

A happy customer is often a paying customer. Attract more happy customers (new or returning) = more sales revenue.

FDev are a business creating entertainment products.

 

[Kaocraft]

Not sure that's a problem, considering rewards are something very easy to tune if required. Features to be engaging are more important.

From a technical standpoint yeah they're probably comparatively easy to tune. From a design perspective you have to really know what you're doing. Frontier has never gotten the balance anywhere close to right in the entire life of the game so far. I see no reason to think they'll suddenly figure it out in Q4.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

From a technical standpoint yeah they're probably comparatively easy to tune. From a design perspective you have to really know what you're doing. Frontier has never gotten the balance anywhere close to right in the entire life of the game so far. I see no reason to think they'll suddenly figure it out in Q4.

Define "Balance". To read too many of the posts in these forums, "balance" just equates to "give me moar money, now". I'd rather activities be satisfying to perform than highly rewarding in monetary terms. That is the real balance that is now needed.

 

[Cosmo]

So just wondering how many people feel similar. Is Chapter 4 going to be "make it or break it" for you?

No, because the Beyond season primarily focuses on improving and enhancing core game mechanics. I think they've done a pretty good job so far. I hope the Squadron and Fleet Carrier (capital ships) will be great.

What I'm most curious about is when we'll get Space Legs (EVA in ships and on planets) as well as atmospheric worlds with alien landscapes and creatures. That should blow away the competitors (NMS, SC etc).

 

[TheSynopticVision]

I've already pretty much stopped playing after the rather underwhelming Chapter 1. I look forward to the larger update in November/December, but I'm not sure how long a lease of life it will give to the game for people who are after a more meaningful experience.

Having said this, the game is not dead.

The game will not be dead as long as there are the "I just want Elite 1984 and space truck around" and the "I play because VR is amazing" people, who are the hard-core of the playerbase and who will keep playing (and buying cosmetics/DLCs) no matter what, even if the game was to remain like it is now.

 

[Kaocraft]

Define "Balance". To read too many of the posts in these forums, "balance" just equates to "give me moar money, now". I'd rather activities be satisfying to perform than highly rewarding in monetary terms. That is the real balance that is now needed.

I'm with you 100% on this.

 

[Aaron T]

I am fired up again, gung ho, and loving it.

 

[Patrick_68000]

If the Q4 is a disappointment, no importance because there will be the new announcements for 2019 and this will be enough to retain the Cmdrs.

 

[amigacooke]

If the Q4 is a disappointment, no importance because there will be the new announcements for 2019 and this will be enough to retain the Cmdrs.

No, I think we're getting to the stage where delivery rather than hype is what will retain/gain customers.

 

[askavir]

Define "Balance". To read too many of the posts in these forums, "balance" just equates to "give me moar money, now". I'd rather activities be satisfying to perform than highly rewarding in monetary terms. That is the real balance that is now needed.

I agree completely that we need much more engaging activities much more than different numbers of imaginary currency.

But!..

Would it be that bad if, for instance, illegal smuggling missions didn't pay less than half of an equivalent legal cargo mission, with the same distance and cargo amount, like it's happening currently with all the "snake in" and similar missions? I agree that changing the amount of imaginary currency by itself won't make the missions more engaging, but the allure of smuggling is getting a high reward for a high risk. Smuggling needs much more tension to be interesting. But there is no tension if there isn't fear of loss. And to have fear of loss, there must be something to lose, it must be a "oooooh noooo" moment. If the consequence for failed smuggling is losing a few peanuts reward, there is no "oooooh nooooo", just a "meh". On top of a high reward, smuggling should also be much more difficult than simply lining up the mailslot and boosting in.

 

[Stigbob]

This year was break for me. Once it was pretty clear we were getting copy paste reused content I was done.

Unless rave review's appear my half engineered Challenger will remain parked.

In this day and age of technology it's almost heart breaking to see this opportunity go to waste on FDevs end..

Free stuff ?.....GGRRR.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Skinned with a butter knife and then thrown at the wall without being cleaned, oozing swiftly congealing blood and the victim still screaming on the floor.

Probably.

Now I got a mental image of a roid going: Ouch. Hey, that hurt. Omg the pain! I'm breaking up, the pain!. Goodbye cruel world *whimpers*

 

[MajorHavoc]

"Make or break" ?

No .... I will keep firing it up as long as it continues expanding !

 

[IamMe]

Given the history of recent updates my expetations are low, chapter 4 will bring some nice things but i think roadmap announcement following after Ch4 will give clear picture about what to expect from ED, this time for good!

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I agree completely that we need much more engaging activities much more than different numbers of imaginary currency.

But!..

Would it be that bad if, for instance, illegal smuggling missions didn't pay less than half of an equivalent legal cargo mission, with the same distance and cargo amount, like it's happening currently with all the "snake in" and similar missions? I agree that changing the amount of imaginary currency by itself won't make the missions more engaging, but the allure of smuggling is getting a high reward for a high risk. Smuggling needs much more tension to be interesting. But there is no tension if there isn't fear of loss. And to have fear of loss, there must be something to lose, it must be a "oooooh noooo" moment. If the consequence for failed smuggling is losing a few peanuts reward, there is no "oooooh nooooo", just a "meh". On top of a high reward, smuggling should also be much more difficult than simply lining up the mailslot and boosting in.

Well no, let me put it this way. If missions had genuinely increasing levels of skills needed for successful completion as they went up in rank (so a Rank 2 Mission required 50% more skill/effort to complete than a Rank 1 Mission) then it would make perfect sense to have the payouts for those missions increase by a similar percentage (so a rank 2 mission will pay out 50% more than a rank 1 mission.....excluding any extra payouts due to complications arising from voluntary/involuntary mission wrinkles).

To be absolutely frank, Smuggling missions are currently a doddle, because you literally only face any real "jeopardy" between exiting Super-cruise & getting through the Mail Slot. Maybe if the length of the Jeopardy was extended, & there was a true distinction between the difficulty of smuggling to a Hi Sec system versus a Lo Sec system, then I could see a point in significantly upping the payout for said missions. This means a risk of being caught smuggling whilst still in Super-cruise, but with added tools for smugglers to avoid being caught; Risk of Scans should be directly correlated to the Security Level & System State; & penalties for getting caught smuggling need to be much more severe.

Just my take on things.

 

[askavir]

Well no, let me put it this way. If missions had genuinely increasing levels of skills needed for successful completion as they went up in rank (so a Rank 2 Mission required 50% more skill/effort to complete than a Rank 1 Mission) then it would make perfect sense to have the payouts for those missions increase by a similar percentage (so a rank 2 mission will pay out 50% more than a rank 1 mission.....excluding any extra payouts due to complications arising from voluntary/involuntary mission wrinkles).

To be absolutely frank, Smuggling missions are currently a doddle, because you literally only face any real "jeopardy" between exiting Super-cruise & getting through the Mail Slot. Maybe if the length of the Jeopardy was extended, & there was a true distinction between the difficulty of smuggling to a Hi Sec system versus a Lo Sec system, then I could see a point in significantly upping the payout for said missions. This means a risk of being caught smuggling whilst still in Super-cruise, but with added tools for smugglers to avoid being caught; Risk of Scans should be directly correlated to the Security Level & System State; & penalties for getting caught smuggling need to be much more severe.

Just my take on things.

I agree with you that smuggling should indeed be harder to complete, AND have more serious consequences after fail (a fine is really no deterrent at all). I personally make it harder to actually get into the station undetected. My favorite smuggling missions are those rare ones where the destination is an outpost guarder by military ships, or planetary starports with police ships.

In the lack of tension in smuggling, I get my current tension fix from ferrying wanted passengers into planetary starports. Still not much, but at least it has more tension than smuggling.

Anyway, my initial point is that currently legal delivery missions pay twice as much as equivalent illegal smuggling missions, and while the current smuggling risk might not justify high rewards, I guess you can agree that it makes no sense they pay half as much as legal ones which have even less risk?

 

[Lightspeed]

Prominent interest in the game will only continue while it is in expansion. It is the expansion which is driving continuing fascination with the game, rather than the gameplay itself - always something new to anticipate. When the perception occurs that expansion has stopped, the bulk of players will probably move on.

Unless .... it then starts to contract ... until it disappears into a singularity. Guessing where that might be would probably attract a lot of interest and even new players wishing to play a contracting game for a change of experience.

I predict it will see a second peak of player numbers during its contraction phase when it becomes playable on a smart phone.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Prominent interest in the game will only continue while it is in expansion. It is the expansion which is driving continuing fascination with the game, rather than the gameplay itself - always something new to anticipate. When the perception occurs that expansion has stopped, the bulk of players will probably move on.

Unless .... it then starts to contract ... until it disappears into a singularity. Guessing where that might be would probably attract a lot of interest and even new players wishing to play a contracting game for a change of experience.

I predict it will see a second peak of player numbers during its contraction phase when it becomes playable on a smart phone.

This is a key observation, although it isn't just ED. People in sci-fi gaming will take vague promise of a future nirvana over a decent present in a heartbeat. You see it in every discussion: sure, SC is atrocious but look at the future! NMS flight model may hark back to the 80s, but surely they will fix that in the future! Dont like [insert something] in ED? Who cares, as long as there is some reason to believe it will change in the future! Its the very premise of this topic: the idea that there is a 'make or break point' implicitly suggests people are playing this not because they like it now, but because they are hoping for a better future. And that they can only 'be patient' and 'have faith in FD' for so long until they 'give up'. Its a completely backwards mentality, and its the one that gave rise to the garbage-festival known as Early Access gaming.

Games are entertainment. Not a religion. You need to have fun, and this fun should happen now. We shouldn't play something we dont like, while desperately mustering faith for some glorious future when a Jesus patch will come and deliver us to the promised lands of gaming. Its absolutely insane. If someone doesn't like ED at the moment, they should stop playing this second. And if something makes the game fun again for them, whether that is now, next year or in 2030, only then should they come back and play. And if someone doesnt like playing any space game like X:R, ED, SC and NMS in their current forms, maybe its just time to consider whether you really like actual space games or just your own imagination.

 

[Mengy]

If the Q4 is a disappointment, no importance because there will be the new announcements for 2019 and this will be enough to retain the Cmdrs.

Patience has limits, and there is a point where no amount of "announcements of future announcements" or "features coming soon" will work anymore. When a player moves on and begins to play other games instead of Elite, the chance of them "replacing" Elite as their preferred game of choice increases. At some point the probability of them returning to Elite drops off sharply, and the longer players go without playing or caring the worse it gets. Once players begin to lose interest and walk away it becomes much harder to bring them back, especially if the update cycles are long.

I feel like I'm at this point now. I've not played for months, I've tried a few times but logged off shortly after out of boredom. If 3.3 doesn't give me some fun and engaging exploration content then I think I'll be done with Elite. It wouldn't matter if they added both atmospheric landings and space legs for 2019, without anything new and fun to do while exploring they just wouldn't add much to the game for me.

Hopefully the exploration revamp of 3.3 does a fantastic and thorough job.