Does Frontier hate explorers?
- Thread starter Mengy
- Start date
In what way? Engineering is rampant power creep and has become an addiction for PVE people, as much as anyone else. I am (well, was) mostly PVE by the way.
Engineering isn't purely PVP in nature; in fact it was designed as though PVP didn't exist. It assumed massive power creep is fine. Which can be; if it's PVE focused. Which it was. It just did not consider relative balance a relevant metric; which in a PVP sense, it absolutely is.
Exploration is a PVE thing. So is shooting at thargoids. Or shooting Guardian crap to turn it on. Are you sure you aren't lumping combat and PVP into the same bracket, ignoring that they both use guns, but that's where the similarities end?
And the same has occured for PVE. Shooting at something is not automatically PVP. 'goid's aren't piloted by humans (more's the pity, imagine if they were a playable race; at least there would be a method to the madness).
But you are arguing that PVP has been the focus. It isn't. PVE has been. By a very wide margin. PVE isn't "not shooting things" it's every form of environment action possible; that includes driving on it. Taking selfies of it. And shooting it.
PVP is actually a very small part of the game; yet many play in open. Why? Because most people don't care about which mode they are in, as much as they care about what they are doing. And that's mostly PVE and mostly shooting at things.
My observation, for what little it accounts for, is that PVE people (of which I was/ am one) would apparently prefer to endless debate at each other over whatever is the most important thing (often without even understand it), even though that's really just navel gazing and at times inane banter, rather than actually have sane conversations with the developer.
PVP people seemed less afraid of change, if it led to improvement. PVE people? Not so much. All change is bad. All of it. Also why doesn't frontier fix anything and improve it. Just no change because bad.
I could say a lot more; but I don't really need to. Constructive discussion with the developer has become shout at them because someone else is doing something different and this is intolerable. Maybe try different music. The last lot hasn't worked for 4+ years and has lead to ever increasing reduction in choice and experience.
Maybe try different music. Player's aren't the enemy. Entropy is. And Frontier are hell bent on chasing that. Because they have precious other direction from the very people complaining they apparently aren't heard.
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Your enthusiasm is great. I hope they do, too. I've just learned, over time, that no, they often don't.
So I am expecting a lot more 'loops' being added in Q4 for exploration; as in more steps to do a thing, with limited/ no ability to avoid the loops added. Not necessarily improving the experience of the thing. As that seems to be the path most often travelled by Frontier.
For me, the game is at its best when the intended gameplay progression, such as it happens to be, doesn't get in the way of me enjoying it. [hehe]
Yes, I wish other elements of the game were more of a primary focus of development (playing your own way has taken a bit of a hit over the years, leastwise in comparison to the meta, in my opinion), but for me at least they still have a fair bit to offer. I probably wouldn't be here if they didn't.
YMMV
Yes, I wish other elements of the game were more of a primary focus of development (playing your own way has taken a bit of a hit over the years, leastwise in comparison to the meta, in my opinion), but for me at least they still have a fair bit to offer. I probably wouldn't be here if they didn't.
YMMV
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FD hates nobody. It’s just a business. Having a large and loyal community, ED has been put as a backup franchise since the other FD’s games are going well. Two and something years ago, DB said that they are developing seasons 3 and 4, but we still have nothing released. For two years at least one major expansion had to be ready, but it was postponed due to success of Dino game. I believe the ED design team is not happy about this, but the business decisions are mandatory. They are balancing on the edge of community’s tolerance with minimal updates, saving the major features to be sold in case of unsuccess of the next game. If they make successful release in 2019 of some unknown game on final development stage, season 3 will be shifted for next year because we, the ED community, are too loyal and too patient.
Since we barely have any proper exploration ships and Frontier don't want to add any, I wish FDev would bring a new utility or internal module that improves supercruise agility so we can use the big ships like the Type-9, Type-10 and iCutter for exploration.
Yes, you can use them now but the poor supercruise handling puts most people off using them. Most explorers want good jump range, good supercruise handling and a good cockpit view.
Edit *Forgot to mention plenty of optional module slots and good fuel scooping*
Yes, you can use them now but the poor supercruise handling puts most people off using them. Most explorers want good jump range, good supercruise handling and a good cockpit view.
Edit *Forgot to mention plenty of optional module slots and good fuel scooping*
That's a bit harsh but, erm, probably an astute observation.
Seems like whatever you like doing in ED, when they change something it usually puts some kind of crimp in whatever you enjoy.
Geez, half the threads posted here are about nerfing something or other; passenger missions, trading, cargo missions, combat, earnings in general, whatever.
It's like they've developed a fundamentally adversarial relationship with the players - whenever we figure out how to do something, they make it harder or remove it completely.
At times, this is probably justifiable but it's like it just doesn't occur to anybody at FDev to throw the players a bone once in a while too.
Exactly; and the reality is, Elite is within a niche genre that is notoriously difficult. Frontier diversified because they are a business and although there was an initial big interest in their niche game, it remained niche. Games like Planet Coaster and JWE exist because these are far more mainstream and also fairly bankable.
I think it's fair to say Frontier diversified and have not prosecuted development as hard in Elite, simply because they haven't really had competition and the success of the store and other titles have insulated the developer considerably. And their other games are far less niche and thus more bankable. I dare say the external investment caused some priority changes as well.
They are a business, working hard, but have multiple projects under way and no real competition against Elite. People have surely been moved around. Elite isn't the focus it perhaps once was, and folks are probably too stubborn to realise this, and set their expectations accordingly.
I think, OP, that when Q4 hits, we'll truly know the answer to your question.
But what about Q1 2019? That will surely be when we know the answer. Or maybe Q3. At some point it helps to understand the situation, to have a healthier expectation. Frontier's only real 'win' in Q4 will be if they can genuinely close out like hundreds and hundreds of bugs and issues.
Because there's not a lot of new interaction coming, and the experience isn't really going to change. Those are TBA. Unless probing things from SC is your top of the list want (we still don't know what that looks like, or even if it's coming; radio silence on that too).
I think Frontier have been trying to help people grasp Q4 is likely a QoL update, and not much else. That's okay? Just.. prepare for it.
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The best fun exploring I had was before I had the ADD.
I had to find distant planets and binary stars by flying around the system looking for paralax effect.
That way it took a lot of effort to discover a planet, but it also felt very rewarding.
Upgrading to an ADD took away the feeling of actually finding somehting and replaced it with Michael Bay.
I had to find distant planets and binary stars by flying around the system looking for paralax effect.
That way it took a lot of effort to discover a planet, but it also felt very rewarding.
Upgrading to an ADD took away the feeling of actually finding somehting and replaced it with Michael Bay.
That's fair, though Frontier may add more exploration focused ships at some point – I couldn't say for sure one way or the other. This is one of the main reasons I actually generally prefer using a small combat focused ship for exploration. Even my Python feels a bit too sluggish for me in supercruise, though fortunately it can be fitted with a decent enough fuel scoop for fuel scooping on the flyby.
Beyond the survivability and combat capability of the Vulture traveling through inhabited space, the Cobra Mk III is pretty close to my current ideal basic exploration ship, though others are better at long jumps and the like, of course.
The Asp Explorer is of course a fine choice; I just happen to not care for it and I do have a Diamondback Explorer in the hanger for niche fringe use, because of its jump range potential, but don't care for it as my primary exploration ship due to its slow fuel scooping potential. The Anaconda is just way too much of a space cow for me, but to each their own.
I suspect we might very well see exploration module slots at some point for the exploration ships, similar to the combat and passenger model slots we current have in the game.
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You can still do this today.
You can still do this today.
You can still do this today. You are not required to use the ADD. Just use the existing module. Do your thing. It's a choice. Granted it can't be forced on everyone, but it's still a choice. That said; just how many times can you enjoy the parallax effect, before it becomes repetitive. 100. 1000. 10,000?
Not everyone will automatically want exactly the same thing, for exactly the same reasons. Exploration should be about discovery, yes, but in a game with hundreds of billions of stars, maybe there are better ways to engage the discovery spirit, than hiding everything and pretending this is the best we can have.
Everyone mode flips at some point. Literally everyone I've played with has at some point jumped modes to gain better boards, mining instances etc.
I think the 2.8% is off by a bit...
My point still stands. Everyone that has a dedicated play style has had things made harder or less desirable at some stage.
Absolutely. It would be nice for FD to at least throw explorers a bone. For example, will probes take up a utility or optional internal slot? Will there be a new ship to accommodate those players who already have explorer builds maxed out to their liking, or will they have to lose the kitchen sink? Will the DSS behave like a planetary hanger, in that it can accommodate a probe launcher? By all means change exploration but within what we already have by fleshing out existing mods. Imo, I'd like to see utility or weapon mounts utilised for exploration rather than more optional internals.
Unfortunately, exploration has been the same for such a long time, that any significant change to its mechanics could be a big hit to those used to it as it stands.
IMO, Frontier *thought* that Elite explorers were some weird type of player, who enjoyed exploring their proceduraly generated planets, driving aimlessly for miles on planets to find Guardian sites or some geysers/weird plants, almost by accident.
It's because they were looking at them from the technical perspective: "who would enjoy exploring these proceduraly generated rocks, there is almost nothing to find!?".
And I think only now they *started* to understand how much explorer enthusiasts are out there. Now we might see some proper changes for explorers, hope they emphisize that a lot with Q4.
BUT! it also could be a Combat gameplay burnout. I myself was primarily a combat player. I like the idea of exploring, but don't want to do it aimlessly. I need some tools to make it more purposeful, I just want to find cool planets with nice features/visuals.
I really enjoyed the exploration CG, that was my favorite so far.
We'll see what we get with Q4...
I don't truly believe FDev hates it's player base. Just making a point. It at times can feel that way though.
Well. They may dislike me. But that's ok. I still kinda like them. Some how.. I still really want to believe they can do better.
Either that or it might be the stolkholms kicking in, possibly Helsinki.
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I have never, not even once.
And mining isn't RNG instances. People were mapping out optimal three-P routes in Metallic rings, to let the exact same procedurally generated rocks respawn, dude.
And yet all rewards are like ten times higher than they have been at release. Apart from exploration and mining payouts maybe...
