What I've learned about griefers/gankers across the board.

[Valorin]

Just to back this up. I know a gamer that is a complete griefer in RL. He's manipulative and not to be trusted. He sacrificed his children's development to pursue a selfish desire. But, in Everquest he was/is a hallowed figure for his kindness and generosity. He built that persona to have a place of refuge, and to obtain a self esteem fix. I have had this very discussion with him, and he was unable to defend himself beyond: "You don't know me."

In knowing that an in-game charmer can be a real life toad I can clearly point out one of those 'Black Swans' Bob is going on about.

There are all sorts of people out there, and I guess there are a few really extreme examples of bad behavior and catharsis/redemption seeking via online games, but in the end I am pretty sure that's more like a rare case.
Ganking/griefing, whatever you want to call it, is mostly just bullying.
But in the end we are in a game and even if the behavior is similar, the deed itself and the consequences are not. We can't tell who a gaming jerk is in real life, so I guess it's no use to judge that, but ingame they are silly, childish, kindergarten kids. At least that's what their behavior clearly tells us. Intentions are harmful for selfish reasons on a game-scale. I guess that's about it. Ignore, block, play on.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

There are all sorts of people out there, and I guess there are a few really extreme examples of bad behavior and catharsis/redemption seeking via online games, but in the end I am pretty sure that's more like a rare case.
Ganking/griefing, whatever you want to call it, is mostly just bullying.
But in the end we are in a game and even if the behavior is similar, the deed itself and the consequences are not. We can't tell who a gaming jerk is in real life, so I guess it's no use to judge that, but ingame they are silly, childish, kindergarten kids. At least that's what their behavior clearly tells us. Intentions are harmful for selfish reasons on a game-scale. I guess that's about it. Ignore, block, play on.

I think people just have a different perception of what the social contract is, by and large.

 

[Valorin]

But, you have to accept that simply blowing up ships can't explain intentions, and is acceptable game play, especially in open.

It's not at all about what is possible and what is not in the game.
It's still about the fact that people blow other people up without any gain. Shooting an exploration ship without any cargo, or a newbie sidewinder, or blocking other people in the slot and ramming them just for the fun of it doesn't leave much room for other conclusions, don't you think?
If you are pledged to any superpower people might blow you up for powerplay reasons. If youi carry really valuable cargo, that might also be a reason. But that's mostly not the case.
So yeah, intentions are pretty clear in many cases.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

It's not at all about what is possible and what is not in the game.
It's still about the fact that people blow other people up without any gain. Shooting an exploration ship without any cargo, or a newbie sidewinder, or blocking other people in the slot and ramming them just for the fun of it doesn't leave much room for other conclusions, don't you think?
If you are pledged to any superpower people might blow you up for powerplay reasons. If youi carry really valuable cargo, that might also be a reason. But that's mostly not the case.
So yeah, intentions are pretty clear in many cases.

Fun is a gain.
So is simply playing with the "exploits".
Some people dig that just for curiosity.
It happens in every single game ever made, whether other players are affected or not.

So fun and learning.

 

[Aaron T]

Oh man, I thought NPC's were a group of griefing pirate players, oops. JK.

Seriously though, if killed out in open space where I did not defend myself well I might get a little salty but it quickly turns to humor.

In SC a dude who rammed me on the pads, clear griefing because I had zero weapons being in the armistice zone, (An exploitation of unintended mechanics at the moment that is frowned upon by the developers) I had just landed and was about to turn in my mining ore for good pay, when he rammed me in his huge ship.

I was very angry, but we are now friends in the game, he knows I am not going to go griefing for sure though.

Pirating, mercenary, whatever is all part of the game.

But, killing folks taking part in a peaceful CG, in no way involving combat, and knowing they are there purely for a peaceful event, or hanging out in a starter system killing unsuspecting noobs in stock Sideys's with low rated modules and doing it with a fully engineered ship, those are pansy things to do.

There is a huge difference in stopping a cargo ship with nice cargo and demanding payment, cargo, or both, and killing them unless they give it up or escape, and killing some poor soul who genuinely wants to help rescue folks from a burning station, with meds, food, or transportation to safety.

Although the second one is legal, it is a pansy thing to do.

Oh, look, an Anaconda with no weapons, loaded with food and meds and cabins to rescue women and children, lets, kill him, lol, harrrr.

That is a really pansypied thing to do.

I like killing NPC's because it costs them nothing, but I do not look down on PvP's for PvP'g, I look down on griefers and Hobo's, because simply put, they are pansies.

Thank you for all the input, incites, and everything in between.

It's just how I was raised, someone screws with you hurt them, and we have your back for sticking up for yourself.

Pick a fight and get hurt, it's your own fault.

Do something against someone weaker, or defenseless and we will stomp you bloody and then stomp you back dry.

Kill an armed vessel whether he provoked you or not, all good.

Kill any unarmed ship for any reason, and you, are a straight up pansy, period, even if it is legal gameplay.

Is that griefing?

No, it is playing the game, but it still makes you a pansy.

Here's the rub, if you are such a great fighter, you'd be fighting other great fighters, not killing unarmed ships.

In martial arts if you are good and moral, you will do your fighting in the Dojo, same as a boxer will do his fighting in the ring.

But you have the pansy, cocky folks who take what they learn to use not for self defense, but against untrained folks who do not have a chance, because 1- they are pansies, and 2- they are not really very good, and will be beaten everytime at the Dojo or gym.

My instructors always made it very clear, if they found out anyone used their training outside of class or tournaments unless in actual self defense they were out, and would be blacklisted.

I understand pirating for loot and credits, but, killing folks at a CG that has nothing to do with combat, any unarmed ship, or a noob in a Sidey makes you a pansy without the nads to fight a real fighter in PvP, period.

 

[Valorin]

Fun is a gain.
So is simply playing with the "exploits".
Some people dig that just for curiosity.
It happens in every single game ever made, whether other players are affected or not.

So fun and learning.

Yes, of course there is a personal gain in that. I meant a constructive, reasonable gain, not a selfish one that other's pay for.
At some point things are very simple and really don't need discussing. If you harm others, virtually or not, just for the fun of it, you are at least a jerk.

 

[Mohrgan]

It's not at all about what is possible and what is not in the game.
It's still about the fact that people blow other people up without any gain. Shooting an exploration ship without any cargo, or a newbie sidewinder, or blocking other people in the slot and ramming them just for the fun of it doesn't leave much room for other conclusions, don't you think?
If you are pledged to any superpower people might blow you up for powerplay reasons. If youi carry really valuable cargo, that might also be a reason. But that's mostly not the case.
So yeah, intentions are pretty clear in many cases.

The fact is, you can't lump all of those behaviors together. Explorer ships aren't exempt from game play. Why should they get a pass? Their goal is to get that data back to a station. Do you think that was unintentional? It's part of this game's DNA. Maybe that data is the reason for the attack? Game play, you see.

Sometimes players blow up a Sidie' to get the attention of a protector or two, looking to dance. I know I've seen that more than once. You have to judge each action individually. The game intends for Commanders to contend. It also offers perfect ways to avoid what might be seen as negative attention.

Some behavior is just low. But, just we have to suffer the effects of a timed exit, we have to accept that some naughty is expected in E|D.

 

[Valorin]

The fact is, you can't lump all of those behaviors together. Explorer ships aren't exempt from game play. Why should they get a pass? Their goal is to get that data back to a station. Do you think that was unintentional? It's part of this game's DNA. Maybe that data id the reason for the attack? Game play, you see.

Sometimes players blow up a Sidie' to get the attention of a protector or two, looking to dance. I know I've seen that more than once. You have to judge each action individually. The game intends for Commanders to contend. It also offers perfect ways to avoid what might be seen as negative attention.

Some behavior is just low. But, just we have to suffer the effects of a timed exit, we have to accept that some naughty is expected in |D.

Actually I don't even think so much about it when ingame. I roll eyes, maybe get a coffee, hit the block button and play on. I have a kid myself and worked at schools, so I am pretty familiar with childish behavior, even if my son is much more social, also in games.
I'm a bit too old for kindergarten games.

 

[Mohrgan]

Actually I don't even think so much about it when ingame. I roll eyes, maybe get a coffee, hit the block button and play on. I have a kid myself and worked at schools, so I am pretty familiar with childish behavior, even if my son is much more social, also in games.
I'm a bit too old for kindergarten games.

Then don't play them. Use any and all of the tools FD have given to discover the environment you enjoy playing in. If you can shrug it off, and laugh at it in space, what changes on the forum?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Yes, of course there is a personal gain in that. I meant a constructive, reasonable gain, not a selfish one that other's pay for.
At some point things are very simple and really don't need discussing. If you harm others, virtually or not, just for the fun of it, you are at least a jerk.

That's simply not true.
Some of the best people I've ever met beat each other up on a regular basis.
They find it fun.

Some of my best moments in Elite have been when I'm out of ammo, trying to make it to a CG base to cash in bounties, and I keep getting interdicted/ganked.
Trying to survive is fun.
It was mutually fun I am sure.

If you don't find playing in open fun, then maybe you should not do it.
I don't find basketball fun, but I don't need to call them jerks because they do.
I don't go and hang out at the local court either.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Oh, except for Pachinko!

Those people are obviously jerks!

 

[Aaron T]

Seriously though?

There are adults here who openly admit they go out of their way to go kill another player for nothing more than kicks!

Proud of it even, immature pansypied behavior, and bragging about it like they're tough, LOL.

Like I said, if you were full tough, and any kind of combat fighter you'd be out there fighting other real fighters, not defenseless ships

You are not even half tough, or even half a fighter because someone full tough, and a real fighter would mop the floor with you.

You have outed yourself in public as a gaming pansy.

 

[Muzz UK]

In ED they hang around noob game starting points, and CG's, etc, in SC they basically ram folks ships on the landing pads in the armistice zone, and they exist in every online game.

Do they shoot folks up out in the open, no, folks who engage you in the open whether you are expecting it or not are fine, they are playing as intended, a loss to them might cause a momentary bit of salt, but as far as actual griefers and gankers, I despise them as much as anyone can be despised.

And one thing I have noticed, during times where most youth are in school in the US region, and you are on a US server, same for EU, AUS, etc, you see very little ganking at all, if any.

I shall preface the rest with not all kids are gankers, many kids are excellent kids and will be great future leaders, and most are average and will provide great homes for their families later on, then there are those destined for prison.

There is a small window on a week day where on a USS server it is likely that most kids are in school, and that is the most relaxing time to play almost any online game in the US region, because as soon as kids have time to get home, the ganking starts and continues until a short bit before school starts again.

The weekends are gank fests, including holidays.

Anytime kids are out of school there is going to be massive amounts of ganking.

Heck, in SC there are whole crews of them.

Adults who like gaming for the most part are respectful of others, and we grew up in a time when being a little snot nosed foul mouthed heathens with no respect for others or themselves in general got knocked out of us, but sadly, the world is full of bags now with participation trophies and this is what we get.

Immature little disrespectful smart alec trolls with no discipline in their lives that cannot even play an online game without trolling everyone.

Don't believe me, get on in open during a week day, when school or juvenile detention is in effect your time, on a server in your region and see how often you are ganked as opposed to all other times.

The great thing about ED though isd that it is so huge you can even visit populated area's and never get ganked, but in CG,s and noob area it is more prevalent.

Thank you, to all of our future leaders who do the right thing and are not sociopaths or rotten to the core, to the rest...

I think it's highly unlikely that most gankers in Elite Dangerous are "kids" as you put it and associating this gameplay style with immaturity or childish behaviour is wrong OP. Some of the most notorious player killers are indeed adults.

Not everyone wants to play the game fairly end of.

Sorry but get over it not everyone wants to be a trader or good guy some people just want the world to burn.

I doubt many children or kids play this game due to difficulty and the fact this game attracts a lot of older Elite vets.

I would suggest as I do to any player who does not want to encounter others play in SOLO or PRIVATE GROUP or stay in HIGH SECURITY non busy systems and you'll be fine. There is no griefer or ganker problem in Elite, it's the same in any MMO or game with open world PvP.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Seriously though?

There are adults here who openly admit they go out of their way to go kill another player for nothing more than kicks!

Proud of it even, immature pansypied behavior, and bragging about it like they're tough, LOL.

Like I said, if you were full tough, and any kind of combat fighter you'd be out there fighting other real fighters, not defenseless ships

You are not even half tough, or even half a fighter because someone full tough, and a real fighter would mop the floor with you.

You have outed yourself in public as a gaming pansy.

You are jumping to conclusions.
I don't go for soft targets.
But why else would you kill another player?

I play the game for fun.
That is pretty much all I play it for.

No one is bragging afaik.

To be fair, I do have an unremarkable competition record to remind me of how poorly I fight IRL.


No need to call me a gaming pansy.
Heck, I gve you free IRL help.
People normally pay me for that sort of stuff.
And you feel fit to insult me?

I suggest you are way off base.

 

[redfoxone]

Am a carebear, forum dad, erm, whatever the nomenclature is these days. However I don't think you should read too much into random killing. I have come to accept that Open is like the Serengeti. You better not show up at the watering holes with a broken leg.

I often think of the rando killers as hunters. It is just human nature. Some like to shoot sparrows with cannons other like to use a bow. Although they sometimes come up with the most silly reasons they do it for their own pleasure. The grief is obviously very high for the deer they are killing and I would say that only a small subset of them get off on the actual grief (very few of them have small male genitalia with god complexes). And some enjoy the chase, thrilll ect etc. Unfortunately Elite is designed to exaggerate the grief. Since the counter measures are either fully combat equip a ship so you can hold 1 cargo, fly with a broken leg (minmax cargo), git gud (too old for that ) and so on. All of which causes loss of money and time.

The time is important here. Sine you can easily lose 10-15 minutes + cost in one killing there is not much incentive to hop on to the Serengeti. Also the time + cost loss seem to be skewed towards the trader/explorer. But not sure about that.

 

[Aaron T]

Thank you Bob, I digress and take it all back, I didn't realize you were one of them.

 

[Aaron T]

Am a carebear, forum dad, erm, whatever the nomenclature is these days. However I don't think you should read too much into random killing. I have come to accept that Open is like the Serengeti. You better not show up at the watering holes with a broken leg.

I often think of the rando killers as hunters. It is just human nature. Some like to shoot sparrows with cannons other like to use a bow. Although they sometimes come up with the most silly reasons they do it for their own pleasure. The grief is obviously very high for the deer they are killing and I would say that only a small subset of them get off on the actual grief (very few of them have small male genitalia with god complexes). And some enjoy the chase, thrilll ect etc. Unfortunately Elite is designed to exaggerate the grief. Since the counter measures are either fully combat equip a ship so you can hold 1 cargo, fly with a broken leg (minmax cargo), git gud (too old for that ) and so on. All of which causes loss of money and time.

The time is important here. Sine you can easily lose 10-15 minutes + cost in one killing there is not much incentive to hop on to the Serengeti. Also the time + cost loss seem to be skewed towards the trader/explorer. But not sure about that.

I've only been killed a few times, and it was ages ago. Heck, I have not even played ED in ages, about 5 minutes one night after I made Triple Elite, so I guess it might have been the next night, around 8 AUG 2018.

 

[Rubbernuke]

[video=youtube;ibSEmMOjYq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibSEmMOjYq0[/video]

 

[Aaron T]

I think it's highly unlikely that most gankers in Elite Dangerous are "kids" as you put it and associating this gameplay style with immaturity or childish behaviour is wrong OP. Some of the most notorious player killers are indeed adults.

Not everyone wants to play the game fairly end of.

Sorry but get over it not everyone wants to be a trader or good guy some people just want the world to burn.

I doubt many children or kids play this game due to difficulty and the fact this game attracts a lot of older Elite vets.

I would suggest as I do to any player who does not want to encounter others play in SOLO or PRIVATE GROUP or stay in HIGH SECURITY non busy systems and you'll be fine. There is no griefer or ganker problem in Elite, it's the same in any MMO or game with open world PvP.

QFT, there is griefing in everything we are involved in, if there are people there is going to be griefing pretty quickly.

Human nature for some, to kill the injured and weak, etc...

In real life though, we can ensure someone pays dearly for grief they have caused, on the internet, griefers have the protection of anonymity.

Do not misconstrue that, a griefer in a game does not deserve anything bad or untoward, because it is just a game.

I have no issue killing an opponent in a game, but even in a game I am not going to go looking for it, but if I were too, I'd be very good at it.

We all know that there is a very thin line, and if we look for it, the ability to go there is in us all.

Muhhwahwahwa argarg argh.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Am a carebear, forum dad, erm, whatever the nomenclature is these days. However I don't think you should read too much into random killing. I have come to accept that Open is like the Serengeti. You better not show up at the watering holes with a broken leg.

For me, personally, one of the best things I've done is to not take it personally any more.

For instance last night I was in Shinrarta, heading for Jameson's (edit: in Open I should point out) in my strictly PvE Anaconda (the Only Slightly Bent). And I'm really not happy with the weapon loadout currently (mostly turreted beams, efficient/thermal vent). However, due to having six (6) shield boosters, my shield MJ is just south of 4K.

So I'm heading there and watching this FDL that I am absolutely expecting to yank me. And he does (I'm assuming 'he'). But I'm curious to see how my shields cope. And the answer is...not at all badly. In fact I had plenty of time to leisurely select a High-Wake solution ("Shall we go there? No, there. Oh, hang on, I've never been there, let's do that!") then ever-so-slowly orient on the target destination. I may have been mocking him slightly in doing this, but hey, sue me. Meanwhile the FDL is hitting me constantly (not sure what with, but MCs were involved I think). I paused for a second, debating on whether or not comms 'meep meep' but I decided that was just being petty, so I jumped.

Lost one shield ring, and not even completely.

Situational awareness and defensive preparedness count for something. I also get the feeling that the FDL wasn't the greatest PVP'er around, which probably helped