mission server - the death of ED

[znôrt]

IMHO board flipping just comes down to greed, no other explanation.

that's a shallow analysis, i think there are indeed many other explanations.

i have many vices and defects, but greed isn't among them for sure. yet i have flipped (granted, rarely) on occasion. for me it has to do with how crude and limited the options are to get stuff done in the game. yes, there is lots of stuff you can do in there, and i mostly do inane stuff just for fun, but if you happen to want X, there is often a predetermined set of requisites and way to get them. often missions are a one of few, and the next problem is that they are purely random, even if you go to the right station in the right system with the right status. sometimes you ... just don't want to have your immersion broken by sandro's antics, if you allow me to be blunt and hyperbolic (i'm not blaming sandro for anything, that's what tj is for, just to get the point across) and if you have to flip a few times so the prng is happy to give you x-sub-prime, then so be it.

and that's just mine.

 

[MrFailfactory]

It is not going to effect Dav's or the Guardian Ruins, all that's totally independent to the mission system.

So certain, are you?

I happen to agree, but the bottom line is that we know they don't like the Refreshing that happens at such places, and they haven't said anything about whether or not places like this are going to be included in this change.

Riôt

 

[Kamiyoda]

So certain, are you?

I happen to agree, but the bottom line is that we know they don't like the Refreshing that happens at such places, and they haven't said anything about whether or not places like this are going to be included in this change.

Riôt

Im not seeingn HOW they can include them in this change, these arent missions.

In addition if they wanted to they could just make the mats only drop once a week/Day/month/ect. They have done it with other things

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

In stead of the next attempt in a long line of passive aggressive measures against mission stacking:

- Frontier can own the idea they don’t like this, turn it off completely and evolve the game anew
- Put the extreme conditions back but make them bgs dependent. This is something only the brave would do I understand, but turning the whole bubble into a game where you could search the bgs for exactly what you wanted to is the high ground? This was actually the case a while back. Since then the community has changed, can actually handle the word bgs without flipping out and could probably understand it if no missions were generated again in exchange for finding our own little gold mines. Maybe a tutorial on finding them and an expectation that you need to?

The aggressive shutting down of extreme cases and creating a serves everyone mildly approach is not as good as it has been in the past.

 

[Patrick_68000]

How many deaths does ED have per year?

Like the Phoenix

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So certain, are you?

I happen to agree, but the bottom line is that we know they don't like the Refreshing that happens at such places, and they haven't said anything about whether or not places like this are going to be included in this change.

Riôt

We don't know if they have done some persistence work on POI instancing, but as far as mission server goes, it is not related.

 

[Bionic Bytes]

I'm responding to "the death of ED." I'm just reminding you that there are a lot of ways to enjoy the game. Issues with one mechanic won't doom the game. I do sympathize with your problem, just not your hyperbole.

Yes, my title was a little bait...on purpose to get a response. But for a reason. I really want Fdev to take note and deliver mission fixes at the same time as the mission server else I foresee many people rage quitting. I use missions a lot, and with the current state of the missions I'm likely to play a lot less than I do now.

Two examples of my favourite activities:
1. combat zones (massacre missions) was something I really enjoyed when we could stack them. The thrill of earning 30-40M cr for 2-3 hours work was great and justified by the re-buy cost on several occasions and the time taken. Now you can't stack any, and the pay is an insult, and the time to complete several missions has grown exponentially. No I don't take these missions at all, been like that for a while now.

2. mining. I go out and look for OPP (Osmium, Platinum and Palladium). When I come back (and before I leave) I look and flip the mission boards looking for any missions accepting Osmium as the payout makes the trip worth the effort. Without the missions backing up the expedition, the time spent is just not justified by the payments. Now days, the mission board is full of useless mining missions, offering small payments (2-3 Mcr) for absolutely ridiculous quantities - typically 200+ tons of something - which would either be impossible for 1 person to mine in 24 hours or at least 4 hours solid 'work' depending on the rarity of the material to be mined. And that's the other thing - the missions are asking for useless stuff to be mined (rutile, phasodium, etc) which again lowers the reward. If we are going to mine, lets have the mission board ask for the best stuff so that we miners maximise our efforts and skill to actually mine rather than just blast at any and all asteroids no matter what they contain. May as well forget prospecting and just blast the closest 10 asteroids and come back.

So two examples of where the mission boards are key to the activities that I like (and I assume many others) and the availability of good missions/payouts really helps drive the addiction of playing those scenarios. Board flipping helps to find other similar missions to bump the pay when returning with 100 tons of Osmium. If we have to wait 10 mins for a new set of missions, which may likely contain random minerals to mine, then it's just a huge waste of player time and a whole lot less motivation to engage with the game for any length of time. With the up and coming mining changes, without the missions to back this up - what's the point of all that dev time and resource expenditure if the CMDRs aren't being rewarded and cash conscious players will simply continue with passenger missions instead.

 

[Drelthar]

Missing the big picture there.
The primary reason for the change is server stability - that's a no brainer.

The secondary benefit is that once mission spamming doesn't really work, FD can finally get to grips with mission balancing, both in terms of how many of various types of mission get generated under various circumstances, but also balance the rewards relative to each other and to other game activities.

This. People need to chill out.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Yes, my title was a little bait...on purpose to get a response. But for a reason. I really want Fdev to take note and deliver mission fixes at the same time as the mission server else I foresee many people rage quitting. I use missions a lot, and with the current state of the missions I'm likely to play a lot less than I do now.

Two examples of my favourite activities:
1. combat zones (massacre missions) was something I really enjoyed when we could stack them. The thrill of earning 30-40M cr for 2-3 hours work was great and justified by the re-buy cost on several occasions and the time taken. Now you can't stack any, and the pay is an insult, and the time to complete several missions has grown exponentially. No I don't take these missions at all, been like that for a while now.

2. mining. I go out and look for OPP (Osmium, Platinum and Palladium). When I come back (and before I leave) I look and flip the mission boards looking for any missions accepting Osmium as the payout makes the trip worth the effort. Without the missions backing up the expedition, the time spent is just not justified by the payments. Now days, the mission board is full of useless mining missions, offering small payments (2-3 Mcr) for absolutely ridiculous quantities - typically 200+ tons of something - which would either be impossible for 1 person to mine in 24 hours or at least 4 hours solid 'work' depending on the rarity of the material to be mined. And that's the other thing - the missions are asking for useless stuff to be mined (rutile, phasodium, etc) which again lowers the reward. If we are going to mine, lets have the mission board ask for the best stuff so that we miners maximise our efforts and skill to actually mine rather than just blast at any and all asteroids no matter what they contain. May as well forget prospecting and just blast the closest 10 asteroids and come back.

So two examples of where the mission boards are key to the activities that I like (and I assume many others) and the availability of good missions/payouts really helps drive the addiction of playing those scenarios. Board flipping helps to find other similar missions to bump the pay when returning with 100 tons of Osmium. If we have to wait 10 mins for a new set of missions, which may likely contain random minerals to mine, then it's just a huge waste of player time and a whole lot less motivation to engage with the game for any length of time. With the up and coming mining changes, without the missions to back this up - what's the point of all that dev time and resource expenditure if the CMDRs aren't being rewarded and cash conscious players will simply continue with passenger missions instead.

Hmm, I think the problem might be you.

1. Massacre Mission stacking was out and out an exploit / bug. The same faction should not be paying out multiple times for the same target.

2. Ok, I get it that we only mine for the good stuff, but it's realistic to expect 'industry' to need more base materials than precious ones.

The only point where I do agree with you is on the reward levels - that is where FD do need to have another look.
But once again, and I can't stress it enough, that rebalancing will be a lot easier after mission spamming is prevented.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

Good riddance board flipping - I always feel a just a little guilty when I do it.

 

[Chrystoph]

The only point where I do agree with you is on the reward levels - that is where FD do need to have another look.
But once again, and I can't stress it enough, that rebalancing will be a lot easier after mission spamming is prevented.

Except that Frontier has stated explicitly that they have no current plans for any modification of the mission system; Acknowledging the people that complain about other people's non-abusive game play, while doing nothing to fix a broken mechanic...

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Except that Frontier has stated explicitly that they have no current plans for any modification of the mission system; Acknowledging the people that complain about other people's non-abusive game play, while doing nothing to fix a broken mechanic...

The mission system has plenty of room for improvement without needing fundamental changes (although there's plenty of scope there as well).

Missions have been consistently improved, tinkered with, and in some cases nerfed, since the game launched - I don't see any reason why that would suddenly stop.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
The only point where I do agree with you is on the reward levels - that is where FD do need to have another look.
But once again, and I can't stress it enough, that rebalancing will be a lot easier after mission spamming is prevented.

It's not just the rewards that need to be adjusted. More importantly - in my opinion - is the mix of missions offered.

Way to often the mission boards offer only similar missions (a lot of mining missions or a lot of scan surface missions or…). Offering different missions would allow players to select the mission type they want and - as a bonus - prevent gold rushes.

The mission board offers those missions - otherwise board flipping wouldn't work - it simply tends to spawn the same mission type in "clusters" instead of offering a variety of missions that are (potentially) available.

And fixing of the mission board - balancing and mission mix - after preventing board flipping is a rather bad idea. This will - in my opinion - result in a lot of trouble when 3.3 gets released.
FDev could use the beta to introduce the new single mission server and then balance the missions in the beta.

Implementing the single mission server and then spend months without no change will negatively affect the game as currently board flipping - as bad as it is - can be used as a workaround for the problems of the mission board.

In short: going to a single mission server that prevents board refresh by re-logging is a good thing. Introducing it without changes to the way missions are spawned will cause trouble and will leave players with a broken mission system for a long time.

The issue is not what FDev wants to do, it's how they want to do it.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Except that Frontier has stated explicitly that they have no current plans for any modification of the mission system; Acknowledging the people that complain about other people's non-abusive game play, while doing nothing to fix a broken mechanic...

No, they did not. They said they are not doing any specific changes to increase number of missions at this time, t.i. release of 3.3. They however said they gonna provide number of fixes for missions.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It's not just the rewards that need to be adjusted. More importantly - in my opinion - is the mix of missions offered.

Way to often the mission boards offer only similar missions (a lot of mining missions or a lot of scan surface missions or…). Offering different missions would allow players to select the mission type they want and - as a bonus - prevent gold rushes.

The mission board offers those missions - otherwise board flipping wouldn't work - it simply tends to spawn the same mission type in "clusters" instead of offering a variety of missions that are (potentially) available.

And fixing of the mission board - balancing and mission mix - after preventing board flipping is a rather bad idea. This will - in my opinion - result in a lot of trouble when 3.3 gets released.
FDev could use the beta to introduce the new single mission server and then balance the missions in the beta.

Implementing the single mission server and then spend months without no change will negatively affect the game as currently board flipping - as bad as it is - can be used as a workaround for the problems of the mission board.

In short: going to a single mission server that prevents board refresh by re-logging is a good thing. Introducing it without changes to the way missions are spawned will cause trouble and will leave players with a broken mission system for a long time.

The issue is not what FDev wants to do, it's how they want to do it.

Agreed, I believe I've mentioned several times that board spamming invalidates any attempt to apply relative rarity or current conditions to mission generation.

As we see in the Exploration topics - players have grown accustomed to failing mechanics and working around or taking advantage of them.
Any fix will always upset someone.

But yup, FD are taking a risk by just implementing the mission server without more fundamental changes.
A 10% uplift doesn't even come close to flipping boards to fully stack, but to be honest the average outcome of the board should not be the optimum from a min/max perspective.

Ideally, FD will realize they need to do more, but I'd be disappointed if the mission board became so broad that actually understanding what generates a good board becomes irrelevant.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

Way to often the mission boards offer only similar missions (a lot of mining missions or a lot of scan surface missions or…).

It's based on the state and type of the Station you're at. It even kinda makes sense sometimes.

 

[bitstorm]

So certain, are you?

Well as others have said, it's got absolutely nothing to do with the missions backend. So why would it?

 

[bitstorm]

Yes, my title was a little bait...on purpose to get a response. But for a reason. I really want Fdev to take note and deliver mission fixes at the same time as the mission server else I foresee many people rage quitting. I use missions a lot, and with the current state of the missions I'm likely to play a lot less than I do now.

Your title is hyperbolic, but I think it will destroy passengers missions.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Here's the thing - it's going to happen. Come to terms with it, find new ways to mission stack, or find something else to do.

 

[Julio Montega]

Here's the thing - it's going to happen. Come to terms with it, find new ways to mission stack, or find something else to do.

Is it going to happen as much as "tying gimbal accuracy to sensor rating",
or making "powerplay open only"?