Frontier you talked about the "traveler" style of exploration and misunderstood one key thing

[Ian Skippy]

I love everything except for one thing...I just don't get how this system will be "almost as fast"




I can not believeon my last trip where I visited thousands of systems that this new system would have taken a similar amount of time. Many systems have 50+ bodies and I have to individually select every single one of them?



When FD started talking about travelers I got hype because I thought they understood...and then they go "well using the ADS would give you the same amount of credits as before." and my heart completely stopped.



This isn't about money. I don't care if there's an earth like. I don't care to only scan valuable bodies. The earth like is only valuable to me if it's somewhere cool. Like say in orbit around a gas giant...or inside a planetary nebula.




I AM ONLY looking for systems that are interesting. And the thing about this game is that an interesting system can be anything. Stars, planets, belts, rings, etc. It can be distance, size, color, proximity, mountains, rifts, etc.




This means in order to find these planets you can NOT skip anything. Not a single planet.




FD is effectively taking all the information we had before and forcing us to press a and look around.




Not having to travel to bodies is a plus. mapping planets is a plus. Everything they added is a plus imo EXCEPT for the fact that they missed out why some people like me "travel" as a exploration style.




Because all the information for nearly everything we needed was avaliable from the ADS scanner. Most importantly a basic look at the look of the planets and their distances.




Their is no conceivable way this new system is "just as/almost as fast." when we are talking thousands upon thousands of systems NOBODY has been to before for months on end. I literally have to scan every single planet, in every single system for months on end, individually just to make sure i don't miss anything.




This filter system literally does nothing to decrease my time. I do not have the luxury of skipping any planet. This isn't about money.




I know what I am doing. I know how to find interesting places. And I never needed to fly to a planet to figure that out, I had all the info i needed from the current ads system.




This is leaving me incredibly stressed out. Because when I explore I sometimes detour for 15kly just to visit a single system and then double back. I move fast, I know where I want to go. I sometimes bookmark over 100+ systems in a journey (always deleting and adding new bookmarks for lack of space) and I visit every single one of them. My last major trip lasted for months and I visited over 100 planetary nebula near the core of the galaxy. By zig zagging up and down and all over I made a trip last for months visiting over 5,000 systems. And I looked at the system map for every single one of those places.




And with near 100% certainty I can say didn't skip or miss a single system that was interesting that I jumped too. I always have a drive to go somewhere else, there is always one more location that's thousands of ly away.




Everything about the exploration coming is brilliant imo except for the time needed to scan systems. I don't care about money. My system I found that has a ice planet so close to the rings of a gas giant, that moves fast enough in its orbit you can literally watch it orbit around the gas giant...is worth more then any sum anyone could give to me.




But the scanner would just say it's an icy world near a gas giant. I wouldn't know it was valuable but I knew within 15 seconds of scanning with the current ADS that I had something potentially special. Then I flew to it and my mind was blown. You can literally fly from the rings into the atmosphere of that planet (if atmospheric flight was possible). And yes the new system WOULD tell me distance and proximity and all that as well but I'd have to have had to scan the approximately 40 other bodies that came before it to know that. Individually.




No dss was needed. no probes. no messing with filters or anything. I knew before I even flew there it was something special.




FD you are NOT making a mistake making these changes to exploration. But I do think you are making a mistake by not thinking about these large trips. If you truly believe that this system is almost as fast. Then I will right here, beg anyone with a PC to compare a 5kly trip right now vs the new system with every single body shown on the system map.



And no! I do NOT claim to speak for everyone. I don't speak for every explorer. I don't expect everyone to play my way. And yes my style of exploration is valid and does not make not "not a true explorer".

And for the love of god ANYONE who tries to tell me it's about money gets instantly blocked. Money means nothing.

Frontier I beg of you. Please find some way to compare two trips of similar length and how long it takes and take that into consideration. Or if I'm completely wrong, TELL ME. Tell me why I am wrong.

Just don't leave me sitting here worried like this.

And again, THIS IS NOT an attack on you or the new update. I love EVERYTHING except for the possibility of a large increase in time preventing me from going to more and more places due to time constraints. A trip similar to my other ones doesn't seem as fun knowing that I have to individually scan every single object in every single system thousands of times over months.

If your idea of 'interesting' requires knowing the entire lay-out of the system, and you currently get that with one press of the button, then no new gameplay system can ever be included without keeping that horrible system intact. Scanning a planet is faster now than the old system, you have a new layer and gameplay as well, but indeed the old honk gave more info than the current one.

As with any change, some will prefer the old system. It is unavoidable.

 

[Deareim]

Even me has been impressed by this stream and new changes. Really good stuff and I can imagine how good in VR !

 

[SeroJu]

I'm done with this. Done with these forums. Done with the crappy people here. I do nothing but try and offer my side, without ever insulting another playstyle. I even go out of my way to engage people who I disagree with, talk about when I think they have good points, and all I get is crap like this in return.

I just wanted a discussion, to bring up another side, to bring up a personal worry. And I get told over and over and over (not just in this thread) that I'm not a real explorer. That I don't care about exploration. I only care about money.

You can disagree with me, without telling me that everything I've explored and shared and worked on in this game was worthless because I don't explore YOUR way. Are you kidding me? My style is isn't "worth it"?

Imagine being told everything you've done is worthless because out of EVERY SINGLE CHANGE OR ADDITION you dislike ONE aspects and nothing else.

Well congrats, you win. I'm done.

Look I haven't heard about this new system yet and I can't find anything on it but I support you 100% from what you said about it so far.

If it aint broke, don't fix it. Old engineering motto.

I don't want an Orrery for the very reason they didn't put one in to begin with, it's a pain in the . I want to just pop the screen up, see exactly what's going on in the system, and then scan what is needed or move on.

Where can I read about this new ish?

 

[JeffRyan]

If your idea of 'interesting' requires knowing the entire lay-out of the system, and you currently get that with one press of the button, then no new gameplay system can ever be included without keeping that horrible system intact. Scanning a planet is faster now than the old system, you have a new layer and gameplay as well, but indeed the old honk gave more info than the current one.

As with any change, some will prefer the old system. It is unavoidable.

A good summary of my feelings. As to the lack of patience some people are showing with the naysayers. It's always good to try and understand people's point of views. I honestly get why people won't be happy with instascan taken away. But I also understand that people who're looking at this new system and getting *very* excited by it are being a little snappy with those less keen.

It's like I get a new fabulous toy, one I've wanted for four years now. And I'm shown it and it's beautiful. And there's someone just over my shoulder going 'It's not as fast as the old one. It sucks'.

 

[Saool]

This comment can be applied to any of the new exploration threads...

I'm going to wait till I have used it, a lot, before passing judgment on it.



P.S. You don't want 'Traveller style'. In Traveller you had a max jump range of 6Ly. The galaxy would be huge again. Actually...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

When FD started talking about travelers I got hype because I thought they understood...and then they go "well using the ADS would give you the same amount of credits as before." and my heart completely stopped.

When they mentioned "Travelers" I had to facegrinpalm.

I'm all sympathetic they couldn't find a solution, or were confused by the static some in this community were throwing up. But Frontier, please don't tell us you listened to feedback and made changes, because you didn't and you didn't.

 

[SeroJu]

This comment can be applied to any of the new exploration threads...

I'm going to wait till I have used it, a lot, before passing judgment on it.



P.S. You don't want 'Traveller style'. In Traveller you had a max jump range of 6Ly. The galaxy would be huge again. Actually...

What, the Galaxy isn't huge because people put together garbage paper airplane conda builds, fly over 99% of the systems, then afk to fuel scoop until they return to honk n warp?

Yeah, okay.

 

[Tifu]

I strongly disagree. Expeditions with groups will be great with this system as discoveries are shared. It can now be a much more social experience.

Strongly agree. DW2 is going to be a blast

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…

Learning the intricacies of the frequencies will take time, as do all new gameplay techniques.

Matching two pictures to "win" isn't exactly difficult - even the game "Memory" that uses that concept is more difficult and aimed at little children.

In the stream the Adams bragged about how quickly they can identify objects just by looking at the "scanner pattern" Memorizing the possible patterns will probably take a little bit of time and then the honk reveals the same information for people interested in credits that the current system but less information for people interested in the look of the system.

The new system is very close to the current system. It just looks worse, is "all or nothing" and removes non-credit relevant information.

It will make honk and run money-cherry-picking-exploration faster and easier while punishing players interested in strange system constellations.

 

[Tifu]

I think it will be more difficult and slower at first than the current system until you learn to analyse the waveform at the bottom of the screen and then it will be quick and easy again.

With a little bit of practice, which will be fun IMHO, you will be able to quickly jump into a system, honk, look at the waveform and be able to say there is something interesting in the system.

I highly recommend when the beta comes out people keep an open mind and they don't judge quickly because we won't be able to recognise interesting bodies until we've learnt how the waveforms work.

Trading takes skill. Combat takes skill. And now (at last) Exploration will take skill.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It will make honk and run money-cherry-picking-exploration faster and easier while punishing players interested in strange system constellations.

That's the lovely delicious irony of it all. The very thing people are wrongly arguing as the motivator for those who would like to keep the information in the system map, becomes easier and faster than ever.

The cr/h explorer rejoices.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

When they mentioned "Travelers" I had to facegrinpalm.

I'm all sympathetic they couldn't find a solution, or were confused by the static some in this community were throwing up. But Frontier, please don't tell us you listened to feedback and made changes, because you didn't and you didn't.

They listened and decided that change is worth it.

Sometimes argument 'but I am used to this' is just not strong enough.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… I honestly get why people won't be happy with instascan taken away. …

The wrong part of "instascan" was taken away. The part that has no monetary gain.
The part that allows quick and easy decisions of a system is monetarily worth it got left in the new system.

FDev replaced a nice looking map with nice looking planets by a line with some patterns. That's the main change to the honk.

Form there things are simpler in the new system as there is no need to fly to the objects to scan them. Match two pictures and point to a blob and you reveal the picture of the object and get the detailed surface scan.

The funniest part is that the old instascan honk is still there, it still works exactly the way it used to work for those only interested in credits.
People can still cherry pick valuable planets if they want to and now it is much quicker and "easier".

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They listened and decided that change is worth it.

As I said, don't try to sell us you listened to feedback and made changes

It's in the post you quoted brother.

Sometimes argument 'but I am used to this' is just not strong enough.

And this is why I will stop discussing this with you. You would rather paraphrase an argument no one is using than actually address what people write, just to be detrimental to the conversation.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Ok naysayers, riddle me this.

How could exploration / discovery be made more multi-layered without dialling back the first honk that pretty much gives everything away?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

That's the lovely delicious irony of it all. The very thing people are wrongly arguing as the motivator for those who would like to keep the information in the system map, becomes easier and faster than ever.
…

There is more to it.
FDev stated that they wanted players just to fly to objects if they want to. Making surface scanning over huge distances possible so players don't have to fly to every single object in a system to surface scan it.

And then they introduce a new thing - mapping - that requires players to fly to the object very closely to map it.
And add a profit to it.
And add a profit for mapping the entire system.

LOL.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Ok naysayers, riddle me this.

How could exploration / discovery be made more multi-layered without dialling back the first honk that pretty much gives everything away?

Keep the honk as it is - revealing the system map as we know it now.

Use the new surface scan system with a more interactive pattern matching system to find location of objects and build the orrey map and to surface scan the objects.

The new system gives "everything away" just like the old system. The new system just uses a wave pattern as a representation of an object instead of a picture of the object.

Old and new discovery scan systems aren't that different. They just look different. The main difference is the surface scan that is now part of the "getting the nice picture of object" "gameplay".

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There is more to it.
FDev stated that they wanted players just to fly to objects if they want to. Making surface scanning over huge distances possible so players don't have to fly to every single object in a system to surface scan it.

And then they introduce a new thing - mapping - that requires players to fly to the object very closely to map it.
And add a profit to it.
And add a profit for mapping the entire system.

LOL.

I'm fine with that, but it stands or falls with the POIs. If after some time you get bored with inspecting POIs, there's no incentive to fly anywhere anymore. POIs need to deliver or exploration will become more of a cherry picker activity conducted from the star you jumped in.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I don't think you understand the topic at hand. This isn't about finding ELW's or anything valuable credit wise, it's about finding interesting system layouts and scenic places instead, which is possible at a glance after the honk in the current system but won't be in the new one. Not without fully scanning an entire system.

It's okay, I don't think a lot of people "understand" the problem here. I was worried that Frontier didn't get it months ago and I'm still not sure they did seeing how they think making the honk provide similar credit payouts is a good compromise. It's not, and it misses the issue completely.

Personally I think I'll be okay with the new way, but I'm certain a LOT of explorers will not.

Personally, aside from seeing extremely obvious ___nary worlds and ringed worlds, I never felt that system map was all that useful for finding interesting systems. Maybe its because I play in VR, but I found that after I'd gotten used to it, I found glancing at the navigation panel would give me the information I'd need to decide to stay and explore a system much quicker, and for the interesting vistas, like watching eclipses from the surface of a planet or moon, I'd actually have fly out there and take a look for myself at the orbital configuration myself.

As I see it, this new system is going to make finding the things I find interesting more fun, it combines several of the steps I take while exploring a system into one in such a way that I think on average I'll be finding things faster, and, as an added bonus, it'll reveal details that I'd normally miss because I find it hard to find the time to play this game more than five hours a week. Yes, I'll be losing the ability to spot those rare quinary worlds within seconds of arrival due to losing the omniscience of the ADS scanner, but I'll be gaining the ability to discover so much more.

The next alien eclipse I see won't be because I stumbled upon it by accident, thanks to exploring a system for other reasons. It'll be because I spotted a moon about pass behind its planet while I was looking at the planet while sitting close to its star.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Keep the honk as it is - revealing the system map as we know it now.

Use the new surface scan system with a more interactive pattern matching system to find location of objects and build the orrey map and to surface scan the objects.

The new system gives "everything away" just like the old system. The new system just uses a wave pattern as a representation of an object instead of a picture of the object.

Old and new discovery scan systems aren't that different. They just look different. The main difference is the surface scan that is now part of the "getting the nice picture of object" "gameplay".

Sorry, showing the system map just gives the game away too much.
IMO FD should've stuck with the black spheres when they introduced it by accident.

There is no compromise here - the system map reveal had to go to make the new functionality worthwhile.