Frontier you talked about the "traveler" style of exploration and misunderstood one key thing

[Ralph Vargr]

That tune got played out when ED launched with completely open travel and infinite range insta-scan discovery.

It's taken 4+ years to rebuild that bridge - find your nerve and cross it with me - I'll hold your hand if you like.

Hey! No Hand Holding! This is Elite!

 

[Ralph Vargr]

The longevity and success of the new mechanics of exploring a system upon arriving, depends entirely on the quality and quantity of new things/stuff/pois to discover.
Ofc we all got the hint that there are new and "exciting" things to discover (as always), but looking a bit back on the previously "exciting" things, i can pretty much predict that after a couple of months, the new system will become a new grind/time sink.
For me, i am 99% sure that even the best of the best exploration mechanics will fail to become adequate, without having a wealth of actual exploration content.

Excellent point.

 

[Drazkul]

Ok, I missed that information.

My issue is that FDev decided for an all or nothing approach for system scanning and not a layered approach where every step adds more information.

Currently we have the ASD that reveals the system map. The next step is detailed surface scans that reveal the composition and exact nature of the object. And that's it.

The new system combines the ASD and DSS into the FSS. A honk now activates the FSS and then the player does identifying of the object and the detailed surface scan in on step.
FDev could have opted for a long range DSS that works like the new FSS that reveals surface information and the information about geological, biological and alien anomalies.

I think finding anomalies on planets could be implemented into the current system as it is just that, an addition to the surface scan.

Tbh i think Frontier would of been dammed if they did this change or left or slightly modified the old method.

No method will please everyone but had Frontier NOT changed it then they'd of been people complaining that they just ignore explorers like they have in the past.

I also think that had it just been a long range DSS that lets you know of PoIs then people would of been complaining even more then they are now as they'd of been called lazy.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Its still a layered approach, just done differently. I much prefer the look of the new over the old. It was always going to be a subjective change which was not going to please everyone. I am just surprised you are one of the ones not pleased.

I like most of the new additions to exploration - mapping and the codex sound really cool. It's just that scanning system that I think is an unneeded change. I never had a problem with seeing the whole system map as it always was only the first step for me.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Here's why I like this system and why Genar and the Op can't agree with me. As I read through the thread I realised it comes down to a simple thing.

What *I* have always wanted is anaethma to what they want.

They can't be reconciled. That first HONK that revealed everything was always too damned easy for me. I wanted something to do, some gameplay added that involved me looking at readouts and interpreting things.

And that's finally what has come in.

I'm not saying what they want is invalid, in every single post on the subject, I've always stated I do understand why taking that away is going to make some people unhappy. But they're two opposing views 'insta-reveal' and 'want gameplay to reveal'. And sadly, there is no solution.

I think overall the improvements make a better game.

Jeff, we could spot GG's at three parsecs in Traveller.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Hey! No Hand Holding! This is Elite!

It's nothing to do with hand holding. It has everything to with removing previously available information that was the basis of the gameplay of a number of explorers.

Just add this missing information back in the FSS spectra as distortions* of the base signal and we're set.
Everyone's happy and it heighten the skill ceiling. For once.

• High gravity => higher signal amplitude
• Low orbital period (i.e. fast) => signal broadening
• High inclination => Signal tilting.

Done. More skill, all explorer factions happy. Problem solved. (IMO)
Make FSS even more awesome, that's the fix

 

[Valorin]

I also love my sightseeing, but I am absolutely willing to sacrifice a bit of time for this awesome new system. Even if it's easier to pick an interesting spot via snapshot, the honk-poof-it's-all-here method always striked me as boring and unfitting.
What I am trying to say is: I don't care. New system looks great and I want it. Screw the extra time I need to find the cool sights, it's worth it. It's twice worth it!

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Hello everyone,

I feel like I am walking headfirst into a hornet's nest, but I thought now was as good a time as any to bring up an idea that might be worth considering.
As somewhat of a middle ground between the new and old systems, would NPC crew be something that could help speed up the new scanning process?

For example, hiring new explorer NPC crew or giving current NPC crew explorer ranks to buff the speed at which you could identify the stellar objects in a system. Based on explorer rank instead of combat rank, for every object you successfully tag using the new scanning system, your one (or more) crew has a chance of picking up on something at the same time. The better the crew, the faster they pick up on things for you. If money was no object, then an anaconda with 3 explorer elite crew could be something actually close to the speeds some here might want. This still wouldn't be the same as the single honk and switch to system map, but it would be faster than spotting each and every object one by one on your own.

The advantages I see:

• won't completely nullify the new mechanics.
• can tailor a little more to the high scan volume style.
• can scale based on NPC crew numbers and explorer rank.
• gives crew a non-combat reason to be hired.
• gives a way to improve exploration flow other than engineering.

And some potential problems/disadvantages:

• you can still fire crew without paying them.
• limited to multicrew ships (and pressures you to use the biggest you can).
• explorers would have to come to port to hire new crew.
• depending on NPC skill, it could be broken or not even worth it (either way it is still not the same as an instant scan.
• would need more game development time.

Has this kind of idea come up already?

Pre-nuked from orbit, as Frontier wants multiplayer.

 

[Quiquag]

So I may be something of a novice explorer, I'm in the black and having fun...but...The pattern of "Honk - Look - Jump" after just a mere 20k LY is already wearing thin.
The lack of player agency means finding an earth like, or a water world, or ammonia world has already lost it's "YES!" moment for me. It's now more of "Oh, now I have to fly out there to scan this system before I continue on my journey to _____".

The solution displayed in the livestream looks excellent, a little more player involvement in a sciency manner really looks to increase the player agency and involvement in discovering a planet. The orrary will help in discovering interesting orbits and proximity and flight paths through the system...

On a whole I'm pretty pumped about this.

 

[Spaceman Si]

I myself share OPs exploring style and i admit i was inspired by her video and also Ant's video years back, so now i can say that she is not alone in what she is saying.
I find it very convenient that until now i could switch to "travelling" mode and go from A to B, because i also allmost always had a destination even if that was 40K LY away or my entire journey was composed by lots of "small" destinations, that i selected from edsm or on the fly by exploring the galaxy map for hours, when i was resting on some planet.
Also i never lost an interesting site or view or planet, because of the honk that gave me the oppurtunity to get a good idea of the system, while the fsd was charging.

And here i post a video, where i did an exploration trip in that way with main destination Beagle Point, but with many many smaller destinations in between to visit other cmdrs POI's and where the honk revealed some very interesting POIs of my own, that otherwise would have certainly missed.

So in OPs defence, of her exploration style.

That was eye-wateringly gorgeous...! [woah]

 

[Red Anders]

Matching two pictures to "win" isn't exactly difficult - even the game "Memory" that uses that concept is more difficult and aimed at little children.

In the stream the Adams bragged about how quickly they can identify objects just by looking at the "scanner pattern" Memorizing the possible patterns will probably take a little bit of time and then the honk reveals the same information for people interested in credits that the current system but less information for people interested in the look of the system.

The new system is very close to the current system. It just looks worse, is "all or nothing" and removes non-credit relevant information.

It will make honk and run money-cherry-picking-exploration faster and easier while punishing players interested in strange system constellations.

Exactly. It does amuse me in a grim kind of way that cash farming from earthlikes has actually been protected here, as if that was actually the major concern of people who had issues with the new system.

I don't think anyone is disputing that, what seems to have upset a few is the new system will take some element of time, which apparently they don't have any free.

So to be clear, as long as you can complete a task at all in the game it shouldn't matter how long it takes?

Coolio, let's cut supercruise speed to 10% of the current speed. I mean you'll still reach your destination so what does it matter?

It doesn't matter how much time a player has available, the issue is using it productively.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The only people seriously being hampered will be the travelers who pretend to be explorers. This silly game will be over soon (the pretending part at least).

Actually, these travelers will make more money than ever. Have you watched the stream?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I like most of the new additions to exploration - mapping and the codex sound really cool. It's just that scanning system that I think is an unneeded change. I never had a problem with seeing the whole system map as it always was only the first step for me.

As I said, it is a purely subjective thing. I never liked the 5 second all seeing honk, I liked parallax even less so I have put up with it for all this time. Personally I think these new mechanics are there for future proofing for when atmospherics come which is what I think the "new era for ED" will be next year some time. There could be no boring or dud systems in the future apart from systems which only have stars.

 

[Jukelo]

It's nothing to do with hand holding. It has everything to with removing previously available information that was the basis of the gameplay of a number of explorers.

Just add this missing information back in the FSS spectra as distortions* of the base signal and we're set.
Everyone's happy and it heighten the skill ceiling. For once.

• High gravity => higher signal amplitude
• Low orbital period (i.e. fast) => signal broadening
• High inclination => Signal tilting.

Done. More skill, all explorer factions happy. Problem solved. (IMO)
Make FSS even more awesome, that's the fix

I 100% agree with you, but... how about we wait for the beta to figure out if some of this isn't already implemented

 

[Drazkul]

As I said, it is a purely subjective thing. I never liked the 5 second all seeing honk, I liked parallax even less so I have put up with it for all this time. Personally I think these new mechanics are there for future proofing for when atmospherics come which is what I think the "new era for ED" will be next year some time. There could be no boring or dud systems in the future apart from systems which only have stars.

Especially as the gas giant was showing resources on the stream last night

 

[babelfisch]

It will get faster than the current way to find brain trees. A lot faster.

But to find anything interesting on a planetary object the player will have to fly to that object and map it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the system map, the honk or the new FSS.

So planetary surfaces are not part of sight seeing? That was my point in case you missed it...

 

[Maro-Val]

That was eye-wateringly gorgeous...! [woah]

Thanks man. I posted that video not to collect views ofc, but to help devs understand and keep trying tweaking the new system in order to keep happy even more types of explorers.

If you havent, you should also see OPs amazing video in her signature, which is ofc even more gorgeous.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Maybe you should talk and listen(!) to some other 'explorers' then. Unfortunately, most of them will be very pleased with the new changes and thus be very quiet from now on. Besides a few being in worry that the new system will be diluted by the casual crowd and feeling the urge to defend the new system against them.

I have no doubts that you, the OP and a few others will be part of the very vocal minority who's voice of doom will accompany us in the next couple of weeks. Move on! [big grin]

The only people seriously being hampered will be the travelers who pretend to be explorers. This silly game will be over soon (the pretending part at least).

Time will tell. Once the playerbase gets their grubby mitts on the betas, well, let's just see.

I will eat a chocolate sock if I'm wrong!

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

So planetary surfaces are not part of sight seeing? That was my point in case you missed it...

And my point was that finding those interesting places on surfaces are not directly connected to the ASD, in case you missed my point
(yes, I now know that the FSS shows what object has interesting surface POIs)

I agree that interesting surface features are part of sight seeing.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Your statement strongly suggests a collector's mindset. You seem to confuse collecting marbles with exploring.

What do you count as Exploration? What's your True Scotsman?