Frontier you talked about the "traveler" style of exploration and misunderstood one key thing
- Thread starter Crusina Luachra
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Please allow me to share my own way of going about things:
I am somewhat of a destination-based Explorer, which means that when I head out, I am heading towards something specific, likely known already, so that I can see it and experience it for myself. On the way there and back, I cherry-pick scans. I will stop and enjoy something that I find to be interesting if I happen to stumble across it, but don't actively look for them unless that is the express purpose of the trip. At the end of the session, I bookmark enough time to find a really picturesque location to set down, and sometimes this can take awhile. Bonus if that planet has materials that I am looking for, which I will spend some time grabbing at the beginning of the next session. Rinse, repeat.
I'm sharing this with you, so that you can know that my current method is definitely going to be impacted by these changes. No more cherry-picking as quickly, and it's likely going to take longer to find my landing spots. I might even have to adopt a new method and purpose to my trips completely, which is something I don't really like the thought of doing, at all.
Soon, I will have a choice to make - get to my destination in what might be a longer timeframe, or just go directly there. The ADS pulse giving me the same amount of credits makes me lean towards the latter option, but one can only take so many slingshots before he can do no more that day.
So, you can see that I'm not standing on a soapbox here, and telling you to *git gud,* or to just deal with it and adapt. Even though the colors on my picture are different than yours, we are both still looking at the same picture.
I understand why the current ADS pulse and the new mechanics cannot coexist, and that these changes are really good for Exploration - both now, and in the future. These changes open up possibilities for more gameplay in the future (or maybe even in Beyond, we'll see), and I understand that my method of Exploration was a necessary sacrifice to move in that direction.
We haven't actually lost the ability to do our thing, OP, but I have a feeling that both of us are going to be ok once we adapt to the new system. A lot of what you are looking for requires multiple bodies, yes? Well, you can see that fairly quickly in the new scanner mode, and you will have those scanned within seconds. It might not be as bad as it seems, and I'm glad to see that you are willing to give it a shot yourself with a more open mind.
Riôt
Fondly remember the time in the exploration forum whenever someone talked about real explorers or real exploration they were ridiculed and laughed out of the forum.
edit: drinking game!
Happy days
Full system scanners
Record breakers
ELW hunters
Sciencey explorers
Picture takers
Many more I haven't thought of.
I wouldn't fit in your categories for instance.
edit: Besides, explorers change their methods, or have characteristics from multiple types, so yeah, it's extremely difficult to pigeonhole explorers.
I remember the time a couple days before that trend started when explorers used to ridicule "traveling" as buckyballing/racing and not true Exploration. Tbh, that's the only kind of exploration I've ever done. And I won't miss it one bit, because "traveling" is the least fun I've ever had in Elite, and that includes all of the Guardian grinds.
Imo, 3.3 exploration can't come fast enough.
Crusina Luachra apologies if my post came across as a bit misinterpreted, I read your OP and did honestly get that impression of the post. You do make some good points although I still stand by my general shakedown, also understand that my post wonders to the sides with comments that are not directly addressed at you, but some of the discussion in the thread, I hands up admit it isn't clear, sorry for that. Your OP was extremely long, yes I did the respect of reading it, although in my reply, probably did wander off a little, and let my own personal excitement for the features come forward.
However the reply above appears to also backup my original line of... I want to get X out of what i am doing and if that changes then I wont like it. Be it displeasure at time, or anything else. I mention some things that yep, granted are not exactly in your OP, and you... bite my head off for it? why exactly, it starts out fine and ends with what is the forum equivalent of slamming your hands on a table and telling me to shut up... its an interesting interaction? Is my personal excitement for what new things this exploration gameplay unlock really enough to warrant that, the mear mentioning of something you may, or may not have said directly, but in interpreted subtext enough for that? Are we not allowed to engage is side discussions here in terms of what is being said? It is after all a big change, and a change that many will like, and many will no doubt dislike. I did not in any manner speak in a term as some have, which is to say "Adapt or go away", such an opinion is rather dumb and probably completely troll bait.
Anyway, starting a flame session or exacerbating anything is not really the intent, it is mostly to take a step back and look at the global picture. From what I saw, I don't think that the time taken will... in real terms... increase per system. As you are well versed, a basic ADS honk gives us, Mass, Radius, orbital period... Currently yep you can mouse over and look at the information in order to inform the choices made and look for those weird and wonderful places... this information is instant and free of investment other than a few mouse clicks/controller movements. This is the crux of the change as you point out. This makes the rapid travel honk scoop, glance at the system map while exiting the scoop and preparing to frameshift, gameplay, obviously obsolete. It is a shame that people will be put back by that and yes, in global terms, the rate of certain types of discovery will slow down... along with those chance discoveries you make between origin and destination. When i say in real terms here, I think that players can and will adapt this into a general method for scanning systems and will make more interesting discoveries more quickly because we get more visual information. Example being here If i am searching for shepherd moons, we can get that information without visiting the giant... so its not what we do now which is to say "How long is the orbital period? hmmmmm yeah lets take a look"
Now that turns into, find giant... zap a couple of the moons... it would take (based on the example in the video) about 20 seconds (assuming 1-2 gas giants)
On the flip side though in general i think it will get more people out there interested in exploration. There could be a surge in exploration rate, which would basically even out the field in terms of discoveries while travelling vs discoveries while surveying.
We all love and play this game in many different aspects which speaks greatly for how wide the appeal is to this game. As the Dev said earlier in the thread, they came up with multiple play styles while brainstorming and yeah, your gameplay style is (unfortunately in light of the update) one of the edge cases that might loose out unless the play-style is adapted a little.
I am a fellow explorer who loves to find the weird and wonderful. Admittedly my defence of the changes is partially because iv genuinely wanted a change exactly like these, to make exploring interactive and skill based, in which yes a mulicrew could go and have some fun and RP a survey vessel and the other part of my defence is because i am tired of seeing the enormous negativity here on the forums. It would always appear that the universal statement is true... "Can't make everyone happy"
However the reply above appears to also backup my original line of... I want to get X out of what i am doing and if that changes then I wont like it. Be it displeasure at time, or anything else. I mention some things that yep, granted are not exactly in your OP, and you... bite my head off for it? why exactly, it starts out fine and ends with what is the forum equivalent of slamming your hands on a table and telling me to shut up... its an interesting interaction? Is my personal excitement for what new things this exploration gameplay unlock really enough to warrant that, the mear mentioning of something you may, or may not have said directly, but in interpreted subtext enough for that? Are we not allowed to engage is side discussions here in terms of what is being said? It is after all a big change, and a change that many will like, and many will no doubt dislike. I did not in any manner speak in a term as some have, which is to say "Adapt or go away", such an opinion is rather dumb and probably completely troll bait.
Anyway, starting a flame session or exacerbating anything is not really the intent, it is mostly to take a step back and look at the global picture. From what I saw, I don't think that the time taken will... in real terms... increase per system. As you are well versed, a basic ADS honk gives us, Mass, Radius, orbital period... Currently yep you can mouse over and look at the information in order to inform the choices made and look for those weird and wonderful places... this information is instant and free of investment other than a few mouse clicks/controller movements. This is the crux of the change as you point out. This makes the rapid travel honk scoop, glance at the system map while exiting the scoop and preparing to frameshift, gameplay, obviously obsolete. It is a shame that people will be put back by that and yes, in global terms, the rate of certain types of discovery will slow down... along with those chance discoveries you make between origin and destination. When i say in real terms here, I think that players can and will adapt this into a general method for scanning systems and will make more interesting discoveries more quickly because we get more visual information. Example being here If i am searching for shepherd moons, we can get that information without visiting the giant... so its not what we do now which is to say "How long is the orbital period? hmmmmm yeah lets take a look"
Now that turns into, find giant... zap a couple of the moons... it would take (based on the example in the video) about 20 seconds (assuming 1-2 gas giants)
On the flip side though in general i think it will get more people out there interested in exploration. There could be a surge in exploration rate, which would basically even out the field in terms of discoveries while travelling vs discoveries while surveying.
We all love and play this game in many different aspects which speaks greatly for how wide the appeal is to this game. As the Dev said earlier in the thread, they came up with multiple play styles while brainstorming and yeah, your gameplay style is (unfortunately in light of the update) one of the edge cases that might loose out unless the play-style is adapted a little.
I am a fellow explorer who loves to find the weird and wonderful. Admittedly my defence of the changes is partially because iv genuinely wanted a change exactly like these, to make exploring interactive and skill based, in which yes a mulicrew could go and have some fun and RP a survey vessel and the other part of my defence is because i am tired of seeing the enormous negativity here on the forums. It would always appear that the universal statement is true... "Can't make everyone happy"
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"Vocal Minority" - def: A term used to describe anyone who, however carefully, dares to hold an opinion that differs to one's own and has the temerity to espouse it
And "silent majority" means "me", in opinionese.
And yet you somehow are still able to know exactly what they think. Most impressive!
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Ah, but even if/when we get atmospheric landing - there should still be some planets where you can't or wouldn't dare go land on - there are planets out there with atmospheric pressure so yoooj your ship would implode. Therefore - it will be completely necessary to scan every planet to make sure you're not gonna implode on that enticing looking planet. Unless of course yoooooj atmospheric pressures will be handwaved away - but that's a future megathread for sure
I am deeply concerned that hazardous atmospheric pressures and chemical compositions will be waived away just like temperature on planets is currently waved away despite conductive thermal contact with airless planet surfaces while in SRVs or via landing gear. Typically we wouldn't be able to tell which planets we can land on without a surface scan anyway, since temp/pressure aren't given without a surface scan, hence nothing has changed in this regard. I really hope that some venus-like planets, and planets that are far more extreme, have depth limits past which most ships won't survive for very long. This shouldn't be hard to implement since gas giants will need such a feature to avoid having CMDRs dive through the outer crushing gas/liquid layers into their liquid metallic hydrogen cores
For you. He just said they classified many types of explorers, and only one didn't gel with the new system. So they had to pick: disappoint all but one type, or disappoint just one type. They went with the obvious answer.
Yes... The skill of pointing. Such skill. Only for real explorers.
Well, you can use the same handwavium that gave us locked systems.
Why not dissapoint none? For what I know they could have left the honk tell us most of the things it tells us now & then add the other layer to gather info through their spectrum.
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Because having to re-find stuff you have already found just becomes busy work and pointless. There would be no point to searching for wave forms if you have already found the planet/moon.
You sure know how to convince people with compelling arguments.
I think the frustration at having to deal with replies which completely mischaracterize the OP is apparent. Mostly by people who don't read the OP or subsequent responses, or don't understand the OP, or deliberately set out to mischaracterize the OP in order to just be annoying. Have a bit of empathy for goodness sake.
It would be detrimental to the fixing of the player base wide issues the new mechanism is part of the fix for.
They could've split the information the DSS gives to partially yield it when using the new mechanics.
"For the greater good" - probably one of the most evil things anyone has said ever. That's why.
What do you mean?
Because both approaches are basically at conflict. FD had to pick one, and they did that.
I think you and others are forgetting that exploration is more than just finding planets/moons. FD could have built a layer on top that allows for new discoveries using the new system.
I have been dead against campaign of the parallax search brigade (and signal search brigade) to rework exploration and I am not convinced that the orrery approach is a good one either. What FD have done is IMO not what they should have done BUT I am reserving judgement till I get to play with it personally.
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