As was previously outlined, explorations canners don't draw power
And a probe still is something you fire off, like ammo,
that point stays there and kills consistency.
Its a video game consistency isn't important.
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Its a video game consistency isn't important.
So we can compare arguments - how long have you been drinking? I'd guess nearer 7 hours.... probably buckfast, in a paper bag, under a bridge, while arguing with a swan. Maybe
Dad.... is... is that you??
So we can compare arguments - how long have you been drinking? I'd guess nearer 7 hours.... probably buckfast, in a paper bag, under a bridge, while arguing with a swan. Maybe
Only if we assume the swan is wearing an orange spacesuit.
You opted into that.
So we can compare arguments - how long have you been drinking? I'd guess nearer 7 hours.... probably buckfast, in a paper bag, under a bridge, while arguing with a swan. Maybe
4 hours, from a Waterford glass. Wine to be specific, at my desk, in my office, no swans within 30 miles.
Planet-scanning itself isn't "busy work", unless you make it busy work. It is just one of the exploration options.
1. Primary System Scan (the "honk"). In the new system, this provides the details of the system's star(s?) (level 1 scan) and sets up the second, and optional portion
2. (Level 2 scan) - this is our new, first-person scanner view that identifies various signal sources throughout the system, be they asteroid belts, planets, or actual signal sources.
3. (Level 3 scan/Planet Mapping) - What was previously the Detailed Surface Scan. This provides the highest amount of information, including surface mapping and highlighting Points of Interest, be they fields of brain trees, alien ruins, crashed thargoid ships, lost or hidden bases, and all the things we previously had to spend countless hours, flying inverted over a planet's surface in low resolutions, straining our eyes, hoping to spot.
As far as Exploration itself is concerned, #2 and #3 are Optional - though 2 may ultimately prove to be less "optional", as 1 will no longer provide the planetary data previously revealed. Given this is actually a fairly short process that can be accomplished while fuel-scooping.
But this still leaves #3 as an option for explorers. I can say with absolute certainty that many "explorers" do not complete DSS scans already, content with their "first discovered" tag, often leaving a number of planets, especially those at the far end of a system unscanned at all.
Extrapolating from this, we can conclude that #3, the "probing" IS an optional activity for explorers. If an explorer chooses to engage in this, then they will use probes to do it. There is no other way to do this.
If the supply of probes is, as it is, unlimited, explorers will be able to conduct this activity as they so desire. Mapping whichever planets they like.
If the supply of probes is limited, however, as only a small percentage of people believe they would like, that supply will run out, leaving what option to an explorer 20k light years from the nearest inhabited system what option to replenish their supply of probes? That would be synthesis.
Synthesis is not free, it costs what? That's right, materials.
Materials do not gather themselves. They do not come to you, or simply magically appear in your holding bins. They have to be collected.
Thus the gathering of Materials is no longer an optional activity for an explorer. It means they have to stop exploring, spend time that could be spent exploring instead collecting materials, even if the only material requirements were iron and carbon, they are still forced to engage in material gathering in order to continue exploring.
Are we there yet, or do I need to put this into a flow chart?
I guess it really doesn't matter anyways. Frontier is going to do what they want to do, which is already done and will be in beta testing in 2 days time, and released live sometime between 3 days time and the 31st of December anyways, so dragging this dead horse debate on and on is really a pointless one.
Maybe?
The option does not have to be synthesis, quite a bit of this thread has been spent discussing alternative non-crafting options.
For example, scooping various bodies to trigger probe auto-building.
Options for scooping would be :
- Gas giants scooping
- Ring scooping
- Those new lightning gas cloud objects (assuming what weve seen is not just a new Guardian site)
A scooping mechanic aligns closely with current explorer behaviour.
Let me try to explain it to you in another way, Baking a bread is 100% optional, you can go about your day with or without baking a bread, however if you want to bake a bread and you don't have the ingredients then having to go and get them in order to bake a bread is not optional if you absolutely must bake a bread.
Exactly... the one on top is my first post in this thread at page 4. Scooping gas giants has been proposed later by a lot of other people so I guess that this mechanics could fit with everyone needs. I can't see any issue in terms of time or gameplay in scooping gas giants.
They are very common and if someone is bothered with the time to get to one of these planets than he/she should reconsider the need to have surface probes at all...
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That would mean compulsory mat gathering which 90% of the playerbase don't want for this.
At least the discussion is mostly focused in this thread and not spread across a dozen variants as happens with a lot of other contentious subjects. The main problem with having one monolithic thread is that new users tend to skim the OP and a handful of responses before hitting Reply, and so much repetition of earlier ideas ensues. I do like having it all in one place though.
So . . . Should we write off mat gathering as an evolutionary dead-end for the game? Not build any more uses for mats or any new play systems which require them, because this would force players to engage in an activity that we have all decided is not fun? Should we also maybe remove mat requirements from everything else, if we agree that having such requirements is an egregious waste of the player's time? I guess I'm open to that idea, but it's not an argument anyone seems to be making.
I mean, what is the angle here? Why is it OK to connect some parts of the game to materials gathering, but for some reason probes are off limits? Especially when the entire justification is "well people don't like gathering mats" - which is an argument you could just as easily apply to any other thing like jumponium synthesis or AFMU refills or tech brokers or Engineers or whatever.
Some things require mats, some do not, just introducing something new does not mean it should have to require mats. New engineering will surely be added later as new modules and weapons are introduced, some day engineering may go beyond grade 5.
Au contraire. Consistency is (IMHO) -far- more important than realism.
If you have handwavium for one thing, then use it for another, no problem.
But if you introduce handwavium and then don't apply it retrospectively to everything else which falls into the same remit, you have problems.
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As an example, let's take Star Wars, clearly a completely fantastical fictional universe, not pretending to be "realistic" but nevertheless somewhat internally consistent with what it presents.
But the hyperspace "ramming" manoeuvre introduced near the end of "The Last Jedi" blatantly breaks one aspect of that consistency. If such a manoeuvre is possible, why wasn't this type of attack weaponized a long time ago in the Star Wars universe? Having big slow ships like Star Destroyers would quickly be a liability instead of an asset if a (relatively) small and cheap "hyperspace missile" could inflict significant damage if not outright destroy them.
I'm sure there's better examples.
Are you really going to choose which parts of Star Wars are supposed to make sense? It all started with the tale of a wizard who gives a boy a magic sword to save a princess from a fortress ruled by an evil warlord.
No transporter-based phasing weaponry in Star Trek, despite the apparent ease of developing this tech in-universe. This is only one of about a hundred things that could have been weaponized but weren't.
Also like classic-era Reed Richards from the Fantastic Four, and his ability to create world-changing technologies just so the team has something to do that issue, then discards them forever. This is not some new thing that just happened here in Elite in this one case.
Some of us are also making this argument...
I don't mind infinite probes per se, except maybe for the fact that they can be spammed; what I do mind is that we have a spectrum of "deployables" each with their own rule set. From limpets which require cargo room and several pieces of equipment, to SLFs which require just one module and ammo for it, to now limpets which only require the module.
Also I wouldn't mind seeing synthesis die, it always seemed like a tacked-on mechanic to justify launching Horizons 2.0 without much reason to land on planets, but if you're gonna kill it, please do it in a swift blow, not cruelly over several seasons.
Yup. The same reason people are flipping over Episode VIII is the same reason this thread continues to exist. It's just lazy writing and a poor effort from the content creator, and customers know this.
Adam Waite admitted as much live on stream: he said that they did intend to balance a finite number of probes, but it proved too hard to balance, so they said, "screw it, we're just gonna give them infinite probes".
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There's no need to try to jump to extremes.
Engineering ships is something you do within inhabited space where there are plentiful mats, traders and multiple ways of getting them and doing the upgrades. Out in the middle of nowhere not so much.
You are seeing a connection that doesn't exist, Jumponium is an optional extra survey probes are a requirement to explore.
If the idea's posted here followed what was desirable to the playerbase (infinite basic probes and maybe optional craftable superior probes in the future) nobody would be flatly opposing the suggestions.
Drop forcing other players to do it to explore at all and you've removed the only objection.
Here's a thought everyone, how's about we see how this works in beta before we all get our knickers in a twist?
'Oh but Henry it's the principle....' I hear you mutter, to which I reply, 'I already get my shot of masochistic delights elsewhere thanks'.
So hurrah for diversity and double hurrah for having blimming funbags of wee hee hee delight with a 'puter game, and yo ho ho and a barrel of rum, for avast me hearties it's into the inky black we go.....
'Oh but Henry it's the principle....' I hear you mutter, to which I reply, 'I already get my shot of masochistic delights elsewhere thanks'.
So hurrah for diversity and double hurrah for having blimming funbags of wee hee hee delight with a 'puter game, and yo ho ho and a barrel of rum, for avast me hearties it's into the inky black we go.....
![[VR] Merkir](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/141/141091.jpg?1553527154){kind=avatar}
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