Just a note.
Zoom out is not required on larger monitors. Except on some very extreme cases.
Most HOTAS have POV controller and this + other HOTAS controls can be configured to operate the system map just fine. No mouse is needed.
The new exploration system
- Thread starter Anoobvia
- Start date
Just a note.
Zoom out is not required on larger monitors. Except on some very extreme cases.
Most HOTAS have POV controller and this + other HOTAS controls can be configured to operate the system map just fine. No mouse is needed.
The new system is slower as you have to throttle to zero, which means that even if you scoop during the FSS look you're still not pulling out of the gravity/heat well of the star, meaning that it takes longer to get into a position where you can jump.
No it doesn't, you don't have to throttle to zero, you have to zero the throttle, two very different things, I am already traveling a good .4c when I open the FSS, so when I exit the FSS I am out of scoop and overheat range, hit FSD right away and use the time it charges up to align with the target. That part of the process is exactly the same as using the old system, takes no longer.
Laptop player here.
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For times and an analysis about traveling exploration being slower in 3.3, see my post here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ad-Surprisingly-the-rumors-may-be-exaggerated
Traveling exploration, or "speed" exploration, is slower in 3.3 due to the fact that you can't open the FSS to glance at the spectrograph while charging the FSD. This adds about 15 seconds per jump as my data above shows. For the past four years we've been able to glance at the sys map while the FSD charged, the only way to do that in 3.3 is to completely ignore the FSS and just jump and honk, but that's not allowing any room for exploration then either, it's just pure traveling.
There isn't any two ways about it, the systems per hour we can explore will be slower in 3.3 than we've had it for the past four years. It's just a fact of the game design. How much slower depends on how you choose to do your exploring. If you just want to glance at the spectrograph for each jump then it's not much slower, but if you want the system map for every jump then it's quite a bit slower, depending on the size of the systems you come across plus your personal speed using the FSS.
That's the point I was trying to make, the issue we are getting wound up on, opening the system map versus opening the FSS aren't the issues that will slow exploring down. The fact is the way I explore and travel the new system is faster. I never opened the system map while the FSD is charging in the old system so the fact we can't open the FSS while the FSD is charging is entirely irrelevant.....to me. For me the new system is faster.
True. Also it is very important to note that while the new system may be slower for traveling explorers, it is MUCH faster at full detail scanning complete systems. Many orders of magnitude faster. It's also so much more capable of finding interesting things in systems too.
After exploring hundreds of systems with the new 3.3 mechanics I'm super happy with them, and I honestly could never go back to the old way now. Doesn't matter if its slower or not, I just find it so much more fun and capable.
I was a bit slow to watch the Livestream. I watched it yesterday and I think it will fit my play style pretty well. I typically enter a new system at zero throttle. I then position and scan the main star. While I am doing that I honk and go look at system information.
Based on the system information I decide if I am going to scoop and move on, or fly out to the planets to make a detailed scan. I see this system putting me on the "science deck" a bit longer; but making better decisions about where to actually visit. I am not clear about the probes, I am out in The Black, I am not clear if I will need to return to a base to get the probe controller. I expect that is the case; as such, it will be a while before I use them. I can see this new arrangement using several of the buttons that are, as of now unused, on my Cougar MFD.
Based on the system information I decide if I am going to scoop and move on, or fly out to the planets to make a detailed scan. I see this system putting me on the "science deck" a bit longer; but making better decisions about where to actually visit. I am not clear about the probes, I am out in The Black, I am not clear if I will need to return to a base to get the probe controller. I expect that is the case; as such, it will be a while before I use them. I can see this new arrangement using several of the buttons that are, as of now unused, on my Cougar MFD.
Yes indeed. If someone can tell me how I can now determine that the system I've just arrived in has a double binary planetary sub-system each with binary moons without scanning every last object, I'm all ears. Because that's the sort of stuff I go looking for.
That's what this reminds me of a lot - the increase in complexity of both combat and especially outfitting for combat in the 2.1 Engineers release. You could do a lot more afterwards - but it took longer to do it, and some things which worked before (e.g. silent running combat builds) were basically unusable afterwards. A substantial number of players quit the game outright at that point - especially in the PvP communities most focused on combat.
2.1 was probably the least "optional" release so far since 1.0 - with 3.3 beating that by design. Up until now if you wanted to play like it was still 1.0 - a few activities like high-end combat aside - you basically could. Take the bits you liked and ignore the rest. Now that's changing - in a lot of areas at once.
Release day is going to be loud... I'm not going to pretend to be able to predict what things will look like six months on, though.
Unfortunately no, to find stuff like that you'll need to do full FSS scans of systems. Which is the situation I'm in because that's the kind of stuff I explore for.
The upside I've discovered is that it's not as time consuming as I thought it would be, and I'm enjoying it more than I expected, but it will take more time than I'm used to.
Since you mentioned combat. Currently you drop from the supercruise to a combat zone/interdiction/whatever. You see what ships are there, select target and attack.
Now, imagine that before doing that, you need to play a wavescanner minigame to identify each ship. Because if the old style honk is an easy mode I Win button, seeing all the enemy ships on your radar, with their type, rank, etc, is even more so.
Why nobody is complaining about the easy mode radar?
The point i am trying to make is, i absolutely agree exploration needs more complex gameplay. But it should be focused on what we do with the things we discover, not on a time wasting minigames which make discovering things slower. Just like combat is not focused on discovering the enemy ships, but on what happens after that.
Actually, that would be an improvement to combat, too.
This is excellent, and really good to know!
My testing time this week has been very limited, so I didn't even get a chance to try something like this. Now that Mengy has done some timed travel tests, I can make some educated guesses about how my own "workflow" is going to adapt. Not waiting on the POI scans will be an important part of this.
So something like:
Honk to discover the system composition, because y'know we can SEE all the planets in our Solar System now with a telescope = lvl 1 scan
Use the FSS to scan the individual worlds for their outline composition from wherever (planet type, material types) = lvl 2 scan
Use probes to discover POIs and 'hot spots' = lvl 3 scan
Use SRV to go look for the fun stuff in person
Each type of scan nets you more money for the people interested in that. This way you get to keep the mini-game but only if you are interested in it, essentially it replaces waiting for the spinny ticking thingy when you get within range. Oh, and the higher rated modules scans more quickly and is more accurate - you could even 'blur' the results for lower level scanners until you get close.
Would that work?
Your analogy is oversimplifying things. Applying the current design principles to combat would look more like this:
Old system: fixed, gimballed and turreted weapons. No gunner camera.
New system: "We're introducing the gunner camera, for not just the helmsman but multicrew as well! Now you can play combat with your friends even outside wings! Control your own turrets, because the AI auto-aiming for you is a magical I-win button! In the name of the new system, we are removing gimballed weapons. If you've been using them, tough luck, we can no longer accomodate your style of play."
Exactly.
Then there's also that the new interface through which we'll have to do exploration, the FSS, is quite bad. It has multiple, serious issues, and this is completely apart from the system map obfuscation: it would need to be redesigned. Which won't happen in a beta, of course. At best we'll see the controls somewhat improved, and perhaps in a later update, some senior UX designers will rework and improve it. Like station menus: take a trip down memory lane and see the first incarnations of interfaces we had, and how much they have improved since then.
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I second this.
FD - can we some some proper mechanics for identifying ships, and consequently some decent stealth mechanics for a damn change?
Exactly. I quit PvE combat years ago for the same reason I quit exploration shortly after completing the DWE, the severe lack of compelling mechanics, or in the case of exploration any mechanics at all. Having a layer of filters over discovering things be they objects or other ships would be a big improvement over the current situation for sure, and proper stealth would be heavenly.
QFT
Yes, that'd work. The basic data to determine if it's worth me sticking around would be visible at level 1, then as now I can choose to stick around and learn more, or move on. This I think is how many of us expected the new systems to work, basically replacing the DSS with a bunch of less time consuming mechanics without making the ADS' job take longer.
Please define what exactly determines what's worth to stick around and what not - for you. And then proceed and find a unified definition that works for all and everyone. Good luck!
If the system mnap is left alone, it covers all the bases. Every player can determine for themself...