The new exploration system

[marx]

What you are now trying to turn into a mockery with a technical comparison was meant as an analogy about human behavior in the first place. I thought it would be quite clear from the context?

My bad, English is not my first language. So basically, the point of your flawed analogy was that you believe there's an outcry because it's human behaviour to not like it when things become more complicated? If so, then you're ignoring quite a lot of detailed feedback about why parts of the new system are worse, how it's obfuscating things we used to know, and so on. In short, there are plenty of better reasons to it than what you suggest. But if I'm still misunderstanding you, please clarify.

If the system mnap is left alone, it covers all the bases. Every player can determine for themself...

We can also see how the system map could work by simply jumping into a system in the beta which has been honked by someone else.

 

[jasonbarron]

My bad, English is not my first language. So basically, the point of your flawed analogy was that you believe there's an outcry because it's human behaviour to not like it when things become more complicated? If so, then you're ignoring quite a lot of detailed feedback about why parts of the new system are worse, how it's obfuscating things we used to know, and so on. In short, there are plenty of better reasons to it than what you suggest. But if I'm still misunderstanding you, please clarify.


We can also see how the system map could work by simply jumping into a system in the beta which has been honked by someone else.

Off topic praise: holy smokes man, your English is great, especially considering it is not your first language! Much praise.

 

[Sunyavadin]

If the system map is left alone, it covers all the bases. Every player can determine for themself...

Pretty much. As others have mentioned too, the system map with greyed out bodies until you've scanned each of them with the scanner would be sufficient for most people who have issues with the new system.

 

[mpfj]

Pretty much. As others have mentioned too, the system map with greyed out bodies until you've scanned each of them with the scanner would be sufficient for most people who have issues with the new system.

Yup ... this (small) tweak to the new FSS system has been suggested many times in various forums.

I'm just hoping FDEV will take it on-board and adjust the system in one of the BETA updates.

Fingers crossed !!

 

[marx]

Pretty much. As others have mentioned too, the system map with greyed out bodies until you've scanned each of them with the scanner would be sufficient for most people who have issues with the new system.

Pretty much. And if you go to an already-honked system and call up the orrery, you'll see all the bodies' orbits as well, greyed out as "Unexplored". The game doesn't need you do to a scan to know everything about the bodies - although I wonder about POIs. (Whether or not the delay with scanning for those is artificial, or if the client queries the servers for this information.)
It's still not entirely the same as before - for example, can't find extreme surface features without a visual look - but it would solve many complaints.

And a bit of OT, @ jasonbarron: thanks! Of course, it has all made me acutely aware of how easy it is to miss context, and at times misunderstand (or worse, misuse!) phrases, as a non-native speaker. (Although I prefer the "first language" term, but that wouldn't work well here.) There's also a funny notion: in most other countries, people often mistake me for being English, but in the UK, it's obvious that I'm a foreigner. Accents count that much.

 

[Sepp]

So something like:

Honk to discover the system composition, because y'know we can SEE all the planets in our Solar System now with a telescope = lvl 1 scan
Use the FSS to scan the individual worlds for their outline composition from wherever (planet type, material types) = lvl 2 scan
Use probes to discover POIs and 'hot spots' = lvl 3 scan
Use SRV to go look for the fun stuff in person

Each type of scan nets you more money for the people interested in that. This way you get to keep the mini-game but only if you are interested in it, essentially it replaces waiting for the spinny ticking thingy when you get within range. Oh, and the higher rated modules scans more quickly and is more accurate - you could even 'blur' the results for lower level scanners until you get close.

Would that work?

The more I see this solution, the more I like it. Originally, I thought the payout for the initial scan should be 'low'. As time goes by, I'm tending to very low - even as low as 100Cr per body regardless of type, or even no payout at all. BUT it ought to happen outside the FSS minigame and give more than just grey blobs on the system map/orrery; basic body type is a must (and I do mean basic: even down to a fuzzy blob that is identifiable as, say, a large/small rocky/icy/gas planet but not much more than that, no detail at all). This would give travellers and pattern searchers something to go on map-wise; those that don't want to look at the sys map can still go straight to FSS to scan as they see fit.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to select a body and have it highlighted or otherwise identified it in the FSS blue fog - but I would happy give that up if it meant a compromise can be found that accommodates all, or at least most, camps.

 

[Allitnil]

This is excellent, and really good to know!

My testing time this week has been very limited, so I didn't even get a chance to try something like this. Now that Mengy has done some timed travel tests, I can make some educated guesses about how my own "workflow" is going to adapt. Not waiting on the POI scans will be an important part of this.

To be fair, I only discovered this by accident. I wasn't even aware that the FSS was so magical that it could determine the number of surface POIs on a moon 500k ls away until I saw someone complain how long it took, went to look at the system I was in and realised it had been populated even though I had zoomed back out from the body the instant after zooming in (was speed testing at the time).

 

[Burke]

Yup ... this (small) tweak to the new FSS system has been suggested many times in various forums.

I'm just hoping FDEV will take it on-board and adjust the system in one of the BETA updates.

Fingers crossed !!

Why do they have to be grey? Couldnt we just leave it alone? Making them myserious in any way amounts to the same thing. I mean make them grey but leave the noises and yeah i can still tell whats there... but cant they just leave it alone? They could have give us the new planets the promised instead of this... I see NMS has just put water worlds in btw. Seems like they basicly folded teh entire framework of subnautica into their game. And in such short time aswell.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Why do they have to be grey? Couldnt we just leave it alone? Making them myserious in any way amounts to the same thing. I mean make them grey but leave the noises and yeah i can still tell whats there... but cant they just leave it alone? They could have give us the new planets the promised instead of this... I see NMS has just put water worlds in btw. Seems like they basicly folded teh entire framework of subnautica into their game. And in such short time aswell.

NMS also finally brought back hotkeys for inventory management after everyone (especially console users) complained on the forums when they removed them and replaced them with drag and drop (you can imagine how well that worked on a pad) - after major outcry on the forums and reddit from the affected players. Just sayin'.

 

[Burke]

NMS also finally brought back hotkeys for inventory management after everyone (especially console users) complained on the forums when they removed them and replaced them with drag and drop (you can imagine how well that worked on a pad) - after major outcry on the forums and reddit from the affected players. Just sayin'.

Makes you wonder doest it? Developers should know better.

Im not a player of NMS but they are showing what can be done and what players can expect. They arnt charging for updates i noticed aswell.


Edit: I mean.. this is elite. Moray star boat anyone? Get on with it!!!

 

[Orvidius]

The more I see this solution, the more I like it. Originally, I thought the payout for the initial scan should be 'low'. As time goes by, I'm tending to very low - even as low as 100Cr per body regardless of type, or even no payout at all. BUT it ought to happen outside the FSS minigame and give more than just grey blobs on the system map/orrery; basic body type is a must (and I do mean basic: even down to a fuzzy blob that is identifiable as, say, a large/small rocky/icy/gas planet but not much more than that, no detail at all). This would give travellers and pattern searchers something to go on map-wise; those that don't want to look at the sys map can still go straight to FSS to scan as they see fit.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to select a body and have it highlighted or otherwise identified it in the FSS blue fog - but I would happy give that up if it meant a compromise can be found that accommodates all, or at least most, camps.

Why do they have to be grey? Couldnt we just leave it alone? Making them myserious in any way amounts to the same thing. I mean make them grey but leave the noises and yeah i can still tell whats there... but cant they just leave it alone? They could have give us the new planets the promised instead of this... I see NMS has just put water worlds in btw. Seems like they basicly folded teh entire framework of subnautica into their game. And in such short time aswell.

You know, we've all talked about having the map populated with black or grey spheres, or empty wireframes. But how about the holograms from the HUD view? Populate the system map with the same holograms, until you've scanned them. I'd be happy with that.

 

[Burke]

You know, we've all talked about having the map populated with black or grey spheres, or empty wireframes. But how about the holograms from the HUD view? Populate the system map with the same holograms, until you've scanned them. I'd be happy with that.

Whats the difference between holograms and wireframe? Its just a placeholder till you have ground out the real thing. What stuff looks like is important.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Whats the difference between holograms and wireframe? Its just a placeholder till you have ground out the real thing. What stuff looks like is important.

Frontier seem intent on obfuscating that data, so I think most suggested compromises keep it obscured.

 

[Burke]

Frontier seem intent on obfuscating that data, so I think most suggested compromises keep it obscured.

Well. Not much to be said. Tough for those that dont like it i guess.

 

[Sunyavadin]

But yeah, the #1 most likely thing to make me stop and look in more detail is always gonna be interesting configurations.

Now the info I make those decisions on is, in order from most to least important:
What's the configuration of the bodies?
How many are incorporated into each group?
What do they look like? (Do they have rings, etc.)
Are any of them landable?

If we're talking any kind of compromise, the top couple are deal breakers if they're not something I can see at a glance upon pinging the system, since they're how I know if it's worth even sticking around and looking at anything.
The others are probably something that there's a bit of leeway on to greater or lesser degrees, since if I get the first couple of bits of info, then at least I know it might be worth scanning them for the other data. But it's still an added faff.

 

[rodvik]

Yes indeed. If someone can tell me how I can now determine that the system I've just arrived in has a double binary planetary sub-system each with binary moons without scanning every last object, I'm all ears. Because that's the sort of stuff I go looking for.

You cant. Sadly. Its why the FSS breaks the game for so many of us explorers.

 

[Zieman]

You know, we've all talked about having the map populated with black or grey spheres, or empty wireframes. But how about the holograms from the HUD view? Populate the system map with the same holograms, until you've scanned them. I'd be happy with that.

Seconded! [up]

 

[Hank]

I just spent the last couple of hours working out key bindings for the FSS and experimenting while flying back to Pleiades from Horsehead.

I'm going to have to watch some video's when they hit you-tube so I can learn how to use and what the FSS is telling me.

The one thing I know is going to cause me heartburn is the lost ability to scan planets (with the old DSS) to find out what materials are there (unless I'm missing something). Now I have to throw probes at a planet to find out the materials composition which takes more time (for me).

GL HF Commanders

PS: I found out on the way to Pleiades there are Horsehead sector system names in the Witchhead Sector. Is that a mistake? They are a few hundred LYs from each other iirc.

 

[Traesha]

The one thing I know is going to cause me heartburn is the lost ability to scan planets (with the old DSS) to find out what materials are there (unless I'm missing something). Now I have to throw probes at a planet to find out the materials composition which takes more time (for me).

The FSS Scan will tell you what materials are on the planets, you only throw probes at planets for geological / biological sites etc..

 

[Orvidius]

Whats the difference between holograms and wireframe? Its just a placeholder till you have ground out the real thing. What stuff looks like is important.

Mainly that a wireframe would tell you nothing about the body, except its existence, and the hologram would give you some indication of what it is. But since that's more information than "nothing", I suspect FDev won't be interested in the idea.