How long would a ship need to remain persistent to prevent a menu log from being abused?

[Han_Zen]

This. These bizarre extreme scenarios happen pretty much never (for real, how often has any of you had their spouse combust into flames exactly when in combat?), and if something occurs you just accept the rebuy. And if you happen to be in the position where you constantly need to go away on a moment's notice, stop playing a MP game. Its basic social interaction skills, and it is somewhat odd to see quite a few people proudly not having any.

I've left the game without waiting for the timer, a few times(usually involves vomit, not flames). Never lost a ship because of it, but it's still annoying to wait. I would rather have a longer timer, but without the confirmation.

It's not like a combat ship in ED can't take care of it self for a few minutes.

Why players use menu log as a combat tactic, is beyond me. Hi-wake is quicker and you have control over your ship.
I've played this game for four years(mostly in Open) and never been interdicted by a player. The chance of having an emergency at a time that affects another player, is close to zero for me.

If we were to avoid those annoying types that fight for ten minutes and then decides it's time to log off when they start to lose, the timer would need to be very long. Then they would probably just kill the game insted.

I think we just have to live with the fact that there never will be functioning, competitive PvP in ED. With the amount of defense we can put on our ships PvP will never work, unless both/all players involved agrees to some kind of honor code.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I've left the game without waiting for the timer, a few times(usually involves vomit, not flames). Never lost a ship because of it, but it's still annoying to wait. I would rather have a longer timer, but without the confirmation.

It's not like a combat ship in ED can't take care of it self for a few minutes.

Why players use menu log as a combat tactic, is beyond me. Hi-wake is quicker and you have control over your ship.
I've played this game for four years(mostly in Open) and never been interdicted by a player. The chance of having an emergency at a time that affects another player, is close to zero for me.

If we were to avoid those annoying types that fight for ten minutes and then decides it's time to log off when they start to lose, the timer would need to be very long. Then they would probably just kill the game insted.

I think we just have to live with the fact that there never will be functioning, competitive PvP in ED. With the amount of defense we can put on our ships PvP will never work, unless both/all players involved agrees to some kind of honor code.

I agree that the timer needs to auto-confirm on 0, and ED is a terrible game for PvP. But the log-out timer as a safety measure is not just a PvP thing, it shouldn't be possible to use it as a bulletproof safeguard against any danger, PvP or otherwise. I am not losing sleep over it, but it is one of the 101 game design things that baffle me.

 

[Han_Zen]

I agree that the timer needs to auto-confirm on 0, and ED is a terrible game for PvP. But the log-out timer as a safety measure is not just a PvP thing, it shouldn't be possible to use it as a bulletproof safeguard against any danger, PvP or otherwise. I am not losing sleep over it, but it is one of the 101 game design things that baffle me.

Sure it's not a good design, but the problem is really the power creep. When the game launched you could get in i lot of trouble, in 15 seconds. Menu logging wasn't a smart way out, when your shields were down and your hull was at 20%.
Now the process of getting destroyed has slowed down. If you have 8000 hull points, it takes a while from you know that you will lose til you actually are destroyed.

 

[Mohrgan]

It all comes down to how important another explosion is to you. If one can H-Wake in 15 secs., why should logging out be any different? This is one of those punitive issues where some peeps feel entitled, somehow, to force themselves on others. The best advice I have ever heard is: Count it as a win, and move on. It's just pixels after all. Why so precious?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Sure it's not a good design, but the problem is really the power creep. When the game launched you could get in i lot of trouble, in 15 seconds. Menu logging wasn't a smart way out, when your shields were down and your hull was at 20%.
Now the process of getting destroyed has slowed down. If you have 8000 hull points, it takes a while from you know that you will lose til you actually are destroyed.

Absolutely, which is also why FD said it may no longer be sufficient. Godshields wreck a lot of different parts of the game, unfortunately.

 

[Brrokk]

As far as game design goes, any program which carries on using internet when I want it to stop is malware. For ED and 15 seconds I'll make an exception because I like the game a lot, but no longer than 15 seconds would be acceptable to me.

And yes, if you're fighting someone and they high-wake, menu log or explode, it means you won. Which doesn't matter IMO.

 

[Stealthie]

The best advice I have ever heard is: Count it as a win, and move on. It's just pixels after all. Why so precious?

What happened to all the stuff about PvP being meaningful and not frivolous?

If you're engaged in PvP for meaningful reasons, it seems like having the other ship leave the area (either by jumping out, menu-logging or even CLing) should mean you've accomplished some meaningful objective.

If, OTOH, you were just in it for the lulz, I guess that's just tough cookies.

 

[Ian Skippy]

What happened to all the stuff about PvP being meaningful and not frivolous?

If you're engaged in PvP for meaningful reasons, it seems like having the other ship leave the area (either by jumping out, menu-logging or even CLing) should mean you've accomplished some meaningful objective.

If, OTOH, you were just in it for the lulz, I guess that's just tough cookies.

You're playing a game, nothing is meaningful and everything is frivolous. I play PES, a football game, online. 'combat logging' is rampant when you are up by two goals or more, and when it happens (usually) the game detects it and gives you the win. But it still sucks, because I start the game to play some fun matches not to get 'points' or some such. These people ruin the experience and I'd rather not play them at all then play them for a bit, have them cheat and end with me getting all the points. Even though the outcome is the same, the enjoyment is not. Other way around is the same: sometimes you just start poorly, look at a seemingly insurmountable challenge but I try to win anyway. And if it doesnt work, it isn't 'time lost' because I played the game I intentionally launched, so you just congratulate the other and try again.

Its just rude behavior, really.

 

[Stigbob]

I don't believe clogging or menu logging are the issue here at all, its a pure case of "force people to play how I want to my schedule".

There can be no fix as the problems not with the game.

 

[Morbad]

My CMDR isn't getting into conflicts to demonstrate his skill or manufacture subjective victories. He's doing so to protect his interests and if someone can simply remove their CMDR from play to avoid loss conditions that might be able to deter them from, or render them incapable of, continuing to oppose my CMDR, any claim of victory on my part is meaningless.

And again, as this is a shared world, anything that alters in-game events is going to have some impact on other players, even if they don't know out it. Out of sight may be out of mind, but the BGS is still going to track it. For that reason alone, all remotely reasonable steps should be taken to deter the unintended introduction or preservation of assets not earned or retained through legitimate play.

You're playing a game, nothing is meaningful and everything is frivolous.

Maybe for the player, if they don't take their entertainment hours very seriously, but a game like this should strive to portray meaningful consequences to it's in-game characters.

If victory or loss can't be reflected in tangible, meaningful, ways to the characters involved, the game is doing something wrong.

 

[Stealthie]

I play PES, a football game, online. 'combat logging' is rampant when you are up by two goals or more, and when it happens (usually) the game detects it and gives you the win. But it still sucks, because I start the game to play some fun matches not to get 'points' or some such. These people ruin the experience and I'd rather not play them at all then play them for a bit, have them cheat and end with me getting all the points.

See, this is part of the problem with ED.

If you're playing an online football game it's reasonable to assume both parties are there to play football.
If you're playing an online FPS, same thing applies.

Trouble with ED is there aren't any guarantees that the people you encounter are there for the same reasons you are.
In fact, I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of "PvP" involves one person who has no interest in PvP at all.
That being the case, I guess we shouldn't be surprised when people decide to opt out of an aspect of the game they aren't interested in.

About the best comparison I can think of is Minecraft, and that's got a heap of different server types to suit whatever different players are interested in doing.

 

[Morbad]

In fact, I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of "PvP" involves one person who has no interest in PvP at all.

I'd wager a fair portion of my PvP experiences featured no CMDRs that were eager to engage other CMDRs, it was just necessary or prudent to try to drive off or destroy each other at the time. The other player(s) and I already opted in to these encounters by both playing in Open.