What do you think about notoriety?

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Kari Kerenski said:
I think it's okay, no problems with it here.



You don't get Notoriety for merely shooting a clean vessel - you have to actually destroy it, which is a pretty deliberate criminal act and deserving of the penalty. So no, there is no special case to be made for CZ or HAZ-RES.
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Mostly it's done in Haz Res by accidentally shooting a clean ship which then gets destroyed by other wanted ships (or by your turrets/SLF if set on fire at will).
You *can* get out of this situation by:
a) having good situational awareness, leading to:
b) head out fast to get out of range of the range for the murder bounty effect
c) by not setting your turrets/SLF on lazy fire at will

But instead of thinking what went wrong, people here want the easy way out, instead of learning the rules and acting accordingly.

To OP: notoriety is fine. You can avoid it. If you get notoriety, do something else or swap ships. Sorry, not the thing you wanted to hear I guess.
 

Marra Morgan

Marra Morgan
Bigmaec said:
Mostly it's done in Haz Res by accidentally shooting a clean ship which then gets destroyed by other wanted ships (or by your turrets/SLF if set on fire at will).
You *can* get out of this situation by:
a) having good situational awareness, leading to:
b) head out fast to get out of range of the range for the murder bounty effect
c) by not setting your turrets/SLF on lazy fire at will

But instead of thinking what went wrong, people here want the easy way out, instead of learning the rules and acting accordingly.
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Ah, I see - thanks Bigmaec!

I've never had any of that kind of trouble personally, but then again I am very careful about what I shoot at ;)

Freelancer Knux said:
Sorry bud I gotta disagree with you. At all times NPCs should be treated the same as players.
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Agreed.

FDev did try to do separate penalties for player and NPC murder with that Pilot's Fed Bounty nonsense before 3.0.
It lasted all of one patch before they rightly ditched it as a silly idea.
 

Shiro Akai

Shiro Akai
johnliem said:
Yes in open, but not in conflict zone and Haz ;-)
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Ok, now explain to me the difference between:

1. A. Brevik takes a gun, goes to the camp and then shoot everyone there.
2. During Iraq war US Marines enter some remote village and shoot every non military inhabitant.

Typical open vs CZ situation. The fact that you are in the war zone doesn't mean shooting clean target is ok.
 

Shir

Shir
I've never done pvp in elite, don't think I have a single Commander kill, although I always play in open. But I have a wanted Corvette and Fdl that I use to roam around and shoot innocent vessels, surface bases (revenge for all the srv frustration scanning for data :) ), kill cops, generally causing mayhem!

The new system actually makes it easier to do, since you can change ships and you are not wanted any more. I think that's a good thing, having different gameplay styles available. The problem with notoriety for me is that, if I make a mistake and kill the wrong ship with my clean vessel, which can happen sometimes, now I can't use my ship for days in real life, unless I move to another area of space. Which is a real drag. However, generally I think it DOES work. Cops show up faster with notoriety, so making crime is more difficult after a while. But it also is a frustrating mechanic
 

KillaALF

K
Don't have a problem with notoriety, it's pretty much a non-issue for me.

johnliem said:
... but when we are in combat like in Conflict zone ....l
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How is that even possible? There are no clean ships in CZs, everyone is lawless AFAIR and as long as you pick a faction the other side is always fair game.
 

TheSynopticVision

T
The notoriety mechanics, together with all the C&P changes that came in January, is utterly pointless. The truth is that the entire C&P rework had no effect whatsoever on the way people play the game.

Have you ever heard a griefer say "damn, this new C&P really makes it hard/costly for me to grief, I have been doing it much less since it came out".

No, nobody ever said this. They said "the ATR is so powerful it will deter crime!". Really? How many crimes has it deterred?

The only tangible effects it had for everyone are:

1) when you clip someone coming out of the mailslot you get fined 100cr and the station is thus locked down for you until you pay.
2) when you die and had a bounty (no matter how small) you get kicked to respawn to a penal colony -- often stranding you or forcing you to do 25 jumps in economy plotting to get back where you were.

In short, it added more irritating mechanics while doing absolutely nothing of what it was supposes to, i.e. "adding consequences to criminal actions".
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
TheSynopticVision said:
The notoriety mechanics, together with all the C&P changes that came in January, is utterly pointless. The truth is that the entire C&P rework had no effect whatsoever on the way people play the game.

Have you ever heard a griefer say "damn, this new C&P really makes it hard/costly for me to grief, I have been doing it much less since it came out".

No, nobody ever said this. They said "the ATR is so powerful it will deter crime!". Really? How many crimes has it deterred?

The only tangible effects it had for everyone are:

1) when you clip someone coming out of the mailslot you get fined 100cr and the station is thus locked down for you until you pay.
2) when you die and had a bounty (no matter how small) you get kicked to respawn to a penal colony -- often stranding you or forcing you to do 25 jumps in economy plotting to get back where you were.

In short, it added more irritating mechanics while doing absolutely nothing of what it was supposes to, i.e. "adding consequences to criminal actions".
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1) Don't speed.
2) Don't die. Also, Interstellar Factors are a thing.
 

TheSynopticVision

T
Bigmaec said:
1) Don't speed.
2) Don't die. Also, Interstellar Factors are a thing.
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Yeah, cute. These are solutions to the two annoyances I mentioned.

But the fact remains that this C&P system has spectacularly failed to achieve its goal. As I said above, and as they mentioned again and again before its launch, it was supposed to "add consequences to criminal behaviour". It has added consequences alright, but only to the "criminal behaviour" of careless CMDRs who don't watch their speed.
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
TheSynopticVision said:
Yeah, cute. These are solutions to the two annoyances I mentioned.

But the fact remains that this C&P system has spectacularly failed to achieve its goal. As I said above, and as they mentioned again and again before its launch, it was supposed to "add consequences to criminal behaviour". It has added consequences alright, but only to the "criminal behaviour" of careless CMDRs who don't watch their speed.
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Like I said, there are fewer "I woz ganked" threads. I think we see it working.
 

TheSynopticVision

T
Brrokk said:
Like I said, there are fewer "I woz ganked" threads. I think we see it working.
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To be honest, I'm not really sure that's true. And even if it was, it might be for completely different reasons.

I invite all habitual griefers to chime in: do you grief any less because you're scared of acquiring Notoriety, of having to pay high bounties, or because you're scared of the ATR?
 

Siobhan

Siobhan
moorison said:
In the sense that a scan can provide a criminal record and not just a bounty claim? Could be interesting but would need a UI-change.
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Obviously it would need some thought and work... but kinda yeah.
Like maybe a list of the last 5 or 10 player kills (only if the victim was clean, obviously), and with no names mentioned... just ship type and combat rank.

I mean I don't want this to punish proper PvPers who do it for CZs, PP stuff or equal fights. But if it highlights those with a list of "Sidewinder, Harmless", "Adder, Harmless" etc... More of a warning to newbs to stay away from this one.

Like I said though, it'd need a lot of work and thought first. Otherwise it'd be abused (everything is eventually) and used to shame the undeserving.
 

moorison

M
Siobhan said:
Obviously it would need some thought and work... but kinda yeah.
Like maybe a list of the last 5 or 10 player kills (only if the victim was clean, obviously), and with no names mentioned... just ship type and combat rank.

I mean I don't want this to punish proper PvPers who do it for CZs, PP stuff or equal fights. But if it highlights those with a list of "Sidewinder, Harmless", "Adder, Harmless" etc... More of a warning to newbs to stay away from this one.

Like I said though, it'd need a lot of work and thought first. Otherwise it'd be abused (everything is eventually) and used to shame the undeserving.
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And it is established that FTL-comms are used for everything (public weddings, other supposedly in ship or short range discussions, ad hoc missions), so a warning of the local authorities about the sighting of a known criminal would be realistic. Might get a bit spammy in CG-systems.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Personally I think notoriety should be on the ship and the bounty on the commander. In my view, they did it the wrong way round.

A bounty on the ship makes no logical sense and if we get the option to get out of our ships and be on foot it will have to be completely changed again.

As to NPCs, they should be treated like a real person. That is the purpose of NPC's.
 

Siobhan

Siobhan
Max Factor said:
Personally I think notoriety should be on the ship and the bounty on the commander. In my view, they did it the wrong way round.

A bounty on the ship makes no logical sense and if we get the option to get out of our ships and be on foot it will have to be completely changed again.

As to NPCs, they should be treated like a real person. That is the purpose of NPC's.
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Probably right there... perhaps notoriety on both to some extent, as it was in the real Caribbean.
 
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