I feel empty after the beta

[Ian Skippy]

i just boradened the context. the issue of frontier posing as a close and accessible indy bunch and acting like a service company is central to the issue. software quality is one aspect. being true to their much touted permeability is another.

But isn't that just basically you being upset at how you perceive FD is intending to shape your idea of them? FD is a company, like any other company. That is it. You are complaining bananas are pretending to be pine apples, while claiming you're having none of it. Its a banana, eat it or don't, but the drama is rather unneeded.

 

[znôrt]

wut? drama is the soul of this forum!

 

[Ian Skippy]

wut? drama is the soul of this forum!

Hmm, fair point. Okay, you know what? I'm with the pine apples, fight me!

 

[znôrt]

Hmm, fair point. Okay, you know what? I'm with the pine apples, fight me!

you just broke the magic. what was i saying again?

 

[Old Duck]

Now that its over, somehow i feel a little discontent about how the beta feedback forums were handled thoughout.

Regardless of the threads i raised, i never for a moment ever expected frontier to actually change course, i've been playing elite for too long to know that's a fools game. But given how much passion and time i invested in experiencing, raising feedback and bugs the pretty much complete silence from frontier on all these contributions has me sitting here at the end feeling a little foolish. This is the first beta that i've contributed to on the forums, so maybe its always been like this, but i swear there was a time where most non trivial issues were handled via some communication during the beta process. The whole experience feels like a futile one sided relationship.

The volume and nature of changes that each beta patch had also stated really clearly the features were effectively finished, and the whole scope of beta feedback was no where near as great as i and ill venture to assume much of the community was assuming.

While i still love elite the game, i don't think i'll be doing that again, and as is probably healthy with all games just meeting frontier at the via the patch notes interface. It was nice being a "fan" for a bit there though.

.... Yeah i do remember them. For a number of patches during the horizons year the beta processes were much more 2 way and engaging. We were provided with reasons for why things were the way they are. Times are definitely different at frontier.

I notice that QA has carpet bombed the Bug Report forum with "so sorry, no time to look at this detailed bug report of yours, but if it continues, just submit a new bug report with lots of details, again." (paraphrase)

Having done this myself for multiple updates over the last year, only to have each detailed bug report archived away as if the bug were fixed (not only were certain bugs not fixed, but they got worse), I feel your pain OP. These days I report bugs using my signature graphic, which actually may work since supposedly "Elephant Butt Leather" was fixed in the upcoming release

 

[rOmiLaYu]

I notice that QA has carpet bombed the Bug Report forum with "so sorry, no time to look at this detailed bug report of yours, but if it continues, just submit a new bug report with lots of details, again." (paraphrase)

I was just coming here to post the same thing. I can't help but wonder if it was spurred on by this thread. Sad, really.

 

[Pville_Piper]

Hmm, fair point. Okay, you know what? I'm with the pine apples, fight me!

After seeing a few shows put on by Gallagher I'm not sure I want a front row seat in a fight between a banana and a pine apple... [uhh]

 

[Kaltern]

*ponders*

Frontier don't answer to us. We're not shareholders, we're not partners.. we're not part of the company in any way.

I have never understood the mentalty of 'I took part in your beta. I didn't like X, and I made a very detailed post about it. Some people agreed with me. But Frontier didn't respond, and nothing was changed, ergo the beta was a waste of time'.

We've not even SEEN the final release notes, and I imagine that there are many jobs that need doing to bring the live release up. Some things will have a higher priority than others - in Frontier's eyes.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm no fanboy or White Knight - my previous posts are testament to that. However, I certainly don't expect my specifc views and suggestions to ever get a personal reply from anyone at Frontier - because they'll likely be far too busy, and they're not going to enter a 1 to 1 discussion with me, because my ideas and opinions are clearly very important...

Some players here feel some things are more important than others, and therefore they clearly take priorty - I mean, they never asked for an entirely new exploration system, while there are BGS issues to be taken care of first. The new Mamba, which was a wee bit too hot to begin with, has been tweaked, and because it isn't a Python, it's just not good enough, and therefore it's pointless - and done wrong. And a waste of time.

Oh and the Squadron system? I personally don't have any use for it, so I think it should just be dropped and all the energies spent instead on fixing black holes - no event horizon, even after 5 years? I'm an exploration player, so clearly black holes are FAR more important that some silly guild system that only a few people will ever use....^*
Bottom line, is that there HAVE been changes during beta, and it's obvious the deveopers have been reading the feedback, and details from the beta forum have made it back to the project discussions around the cappauchinos, and as such, we'll probably see more tweaks and updates as time goes on.

However... people really need to wake up to the fact that this game, is no longer 'theirs' to direct. Frontier have made decisions... some bad, some good, but overall, for a game that was dying 4 years ago, to not only be bringing out a HUGE new update, but is clearly laying the foundations for more to come next year, they're not going to listen to the vocal minority, shouting as loud as they can; 'YOU'RE RUINING MY GAME' - they'll simply take a look at the feedback, see if it's worthy of any attention, and if so, take it into consideration... or just completely ignore it.

As the saying goes... if you don't like it, go play EVE/Star Citizen/No Man's Sky/X4 Foundations/Fortnite.

* if you had to check why I put a star here, then I believe you're probably 'one of them'...

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

they indeed act as an 'aaa' company but still cling to the 'indy' attitude in communication.

Yeah it never clicked to me that frontier were positioning themselves as a triple a developer, makes perfect sense and could explain everything. This has never clicked for probably 2 reasons..

Not considering quality, the tone and content in elite still makes it a niche title. X4 is more mainstream than elite simply because it provides more gameplay over experience. The product of elite doesn't traditionally command that sort of attitude given its smaller reach. Maybe the datamined story content will make it closer to a modern version of tie fighter with elite dangerous turning into the online multiplayer, but until then not so much.

Its also challenge or irritation to see past the communication which does imply they are more receptive than they are.. but the only real evidence we have is the community is no more than a resource of opinion called upon at need. The fact that less interested players hold up frontier as behaving like their communication and not like their practice doesn't help either.

Yeah my original post was only a symptom of caring too much. Objectively frontier don't earn that so i can turn it down one. Its not like elite is bad...

Still.. You got to wonder how connected they are to the game. The FSS meets a bullet point for "must support multicrew". The fact that they were willing to cut their own experience which they themselves have so strongly upheld for something like this.. its exactly the same... tone of output as crime and punishment, the quirks of the engineering system that only make sense while daydreaming on a commute, all of JWE etc.

 

[babelfisch]

and i totally get that this is nothing out of the ordinary in gaming industry standards, but there's a strong cognitive dissonance when frontier vehemently asks for help in testing and politely thanks the playerbase but actually corresponds so weakly. they indeed act as an 'aaa' company but still cling to the 'indy' attitude in communication. in that sense they should cut the crap or eat the flak.

True, most AAA companies don't communicate at all.

 

[Guest 161958]

True, most AAA companies don't communicate at all.

Give it time.

 

[Miko]

Give it time.

But this isn't triple A. Ice Worlds couldn't be executed and delivered as intended. Carriers were pulled... You genuinely think this is AAA material?

Kickstarter campaign, many years of development, sometimes updates change very little at all. Do you think this is AAA considering what AAA these days represents?

Am I being sarcastic or serious, who knows right? Lol.

 

[Guest 161958]

But this isn't triple A. Ice Worlds couldn't be executed and delivered as intended. Carriers were pulled... You genuinely think this is AAA material?

Kickstarter campaign, many years of development, sometimes updates change very little at all. Do you think this is AAA considering what AAA these days represents?

Am I being sarcastic or serious, who knows right? Lol.

hehe. Well, judging from the fact that I have 20 times more playing hours in Elite Dangerous than other AAA considered titles, I would say it is AAAA+.

My comment, which was silenced by people who are only in this forum to create drama, was about the fact that anything that starts indie tends to lose the original spirit and enthusiasm if it gets popular.

During the kickstart and alpha there was a special atmosphere which sadly I cannot feel anymore. But no complaining, just remembering the old times and hoping (fading after many QoL deemed features which are dumbing down the game IMO) the original Elite's spirit remains the same even after increased popularity.

 

[Miko]

hehe. Well, judging from the fact that I have 20 times more playing hours in Elite Dangerous than other AAA considered titles, I would say it is AAAA+.

My comment, which was silenced by people who are only in this forum to create drama, was about the fact that anything that starts indie tends to lose the original spirit and enthusiasm if it gets popular.

During the kickstart and alpha there was a special atmosphere which sadly I cannot feel anymore. But no complaining, just remembering the old times and hoping (fading after many QoL deemed features which are dumbing down the game IMO) the original Elite's spirit remains the same even after increased popularity.

Me too, strangely, but a lot of it is drifting SC doing next to zilch or sitting docked at stations. Of course, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but still... Lol.

Admittedly, beta testers are a god send. Games used to be properly tested prior to release before the Internet patching later concept made devs less meticulous. Doing their work for them, then hoping they pay attention to the feedback in the process.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Just my take, do not want to offend anyone.

Elite Dangerous has become a mainstream AAA game. Spirit changed.
Bilateral communication with customers is a thing of the past not because of FD, but because
of the new customers.
To make it more widespread and lucrative, plans are to transform it into EVE online II.

Yeah sure, how do you know that?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Why?

Eve Online isn't mainstream.

 

[babelfisch]

But this isn't triple A. Ice Worlds couldn't be executed and delivered as intended. Carriers were pulled... You genuinely think this is AAA material?

Kickstarter campaign, many years of development, sometimes updates change very little at all. Do you think this is AAA considering what AAA these days represents?

Am I being sarcastic or serious, who knows right? Lol.

As said above, the difference to an AAA studio would be that you never knew that ice planets or squadrons were planned in the first place, simply because they refuse to communicate with their customers. Most AAA titles these days represent unimaginative copy & paste products that usually don't work at release, have lots of core features cut to be sold as DLC, several pay to win mechanics and a very big marketing budget.

Eve Online isn't mainstream.

And neither is ED, the whole discussion is pointless.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

Something would be worth doing: when the final patch notes come out, someone should compare those (and all the 4 beta patch notes before) with all the main points raised in the feedback forum. With very few exceptions (Mamba's heat issues, mining payouts, single button to enter/exit FSS), I really haven't seen many actual changes/revisions inspired by the feedback given. Bug fixes, sure -- but actual changes?

 

[M00ka]

Something would be worth doing: when the final patch notes come out, someone should compare those (and all the 4 beta patch notes before) with all the main points raised in the feedback forum. With very few exceptions (Mamba's heat issues, mining payouts, single button to enter/exit FSS), I really haven't seen many actual changes/revisions inspired by the feedback given. Bug fixes, sure -- but actual changes?

From what I read in the Beta subforum most of the feedback was positive, with the exception of very small vocal groups who wanted changes, some wholesale, complete rewrites, made. Kind of glad FD stuck to their guns in this instance as the majority seemed to be in favour of what FD released.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

I simply don't know if my feedback was read, considered, implemented or simply ignored.

The issue I have (and I'm sure it applies to many others) is I kind of need to know something has been done in order to attract me back into the game. The thought of buzzing round the galaxy with a keen interest of exploration only to find a few rare geological formations after days/weeks is a serious barrier to ones enjoyment.