Aiming with subsurface/seismic missiles

[Kay Thaxby]

So from what I can tell, subsurface and seismic mining missiles are 'dumbfire' and do not home in on the selected target area on the asteroid. This would be OK, if not for the fact that the missiles do not go where the crosshair is pointed. Depending on your distance and position relative to the target, the missile may hit half a screens'-width to the left of the crosshair, or to the right, or above or below. The result is that aiming these tools, especially the subsurface missiles, is effectively a guessing game, and for every one that hits, you have to fire several shots that just bounce off the asteroid. Even if you're only a few metres away from the target point, and the asteroid is completely still, your odds of hitting the target seem to be 50/50 or worse. It's incredibly frustrating and, for the subsurface missiles, absolutely not worth bothering with in my opinion - especially not for one resource chunk per hit.

We already have the gameplay element of drill depth/seismic power adjustment. Couldn't we have the missiles home in on the selected target point, rather than this absurd situation where we have a near-useless crosshair and we're effectively having to guess where the missile will go?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

You have to lead them a little bit, because most asteroids are rotating. But the hitbox is pretty generous.

After two or three asteroids, I got the hang of it pretty well.

 

[Kay Thaxby]

Indeed, but because of the way the missile comes from off-centre relative to the crosshair (depending on where the hardpoint is located), the crosshair does not give a good representation of where the missile is going, and it's hard to lead with a broken crosshair. They could easily fix the missiles so that they curve inwards upon launching and quickly adjust to a straight course along the 'centre line' from the middle of the ship to the target point. The current situation just seems like poor game design and 'enforced difficulty' to me.

I suppose I could switch the launcher to my central hardpoint, though not all ships have one.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Indeed, but because of the way the missile comes from off-centre relative to the crosshair (depending on where the hardpoint is located), the crosshair does not give a good representation of where the missile is going, and it's hard to lead with a broken crosshair. They could easily fix the missiles so that they curve inwards upon launching and quickly adjust to a straight course along the 'centre line' from the middle of the ship to the target point. The current situation just seems like poor game design and 'enforced difficulty' to me.

I suppose I could switch the launcher to my central hardpoint, though not all ships have one.

You might have a point. I'm not sure where mine is located.

 

[Kay Thaxby]

...and as I said, all of this is for a single chunk that's worth maybe three or four mining laser chunks (which you can obtain pretty much by pointing your ship at the asteroid and holding down fire with your eyes closed for six to eight seconds). Woo-hoo. There's no point in including new tools like this if they barely offer more rewards than the old tools.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

...and as I said, all of this is for a single chunk that's worth maybe three or four mining laser chunks (which you can obtain pretty much by pointing your ship at the asteroid and holding down fire with your eyes closed for six to eight seconds). Woo-hoo. There's no point in including new tools like this if it barely offers more reward than the old tools.

You're cracking the wrong asteroids. See my latest thread.

Don't crack anything that doesn't give you a "Core Detected" text on the target panel.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/463534-Mining-Great-Job-FD!

 

[Kay Thaxby]

You're cracking the wrong asteroids. See my latest thread.

Don't crack anything that doesn't give you a "Core Detected" text on the target panel.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/463534-Mining-Great-Job-FD!

Can you point me to the specific post you're talking about? I've searched all five pages of that thread for the phrase 'core detected' and I can't see it.

And also, I'm mainly talking about the subsurface missiles, so I'm not talking about 'cracking' asteroids at all. Are you talking about seismic charges?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Can you point me to the specific post you're talking about? I've searched all five pages of that thread for the phrase 'core detected' and I can't see it.

And also, I'm mainly talking about the subsurface missiles, so I'm not talking about 'cracking' asteroids at all. Are you talking about seismic charges?

Oh, yeah. I haven't really found the subsurface missiles to be super effective. Still fun to use though.

Anyways, here is the core photo I mentioned.

 

[Kay Thaxby]

Doesn't it say that for any 'crackable' asteroid? Isn't it basically saying 'You can use seismics on this asteroid'?

 

[Pville_Piper]

They pretty much are like dumbfires. If you place them too far off of centerline it becomes much harder to hit the spots. For instance, if you're mining with a T10, don't place the missiles on the outer most hard points, it becomes real hard to anything with them.

The abrasion blaster needs to be as close as possible to center line as well. If you're placing it out further it seems like it will not knock the node lose.

If you do these things, the mining gets easier.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Doesn't it say that for any 'crackable' asteroid? Isn't it basically saying 'You can use seismics on this asteroid'?

No. Only for asteroids with a motherlode. In my mining run, I cracked about 10 asteroids and they had this message. The other crackable ones did not have a "core detected" message. They are not worth wasting your time on.

 

[Pville_Piper]

On the Krait II I had the best success placing the abrasion blaster on the top centerline and the missiles on the mediums next to the cockpit. Everything works well there.

 

[Kay Thaxby]

Meh. I just think the balance is terrible. Subsurface missiles versus mining lasers is basically bull's-eyeing womp rats with a slow-moving projectile versus firing a laser at the broad side of a barn. Given this radical difference in difficulty and time consumption, the rewards for the former should be much higher than the latter, and they just aren't.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Meh. I just think the balance is terrible. Subsurface missiles versus mining lasers is basically bull's-eyeing womp rats with a slow-moving projectile versus firing a laser at the broad side of a barn. Given that, the rewards for the former should be much higher than the latter, and they just aren't.

Actually, I think those subsurface deposits give you higher yields. When I checked earlier, I got like 40% of a hopper of one subsurface fragment. And it's a nice way to break up the "broad side of the barn" monotony.

You don't have to mine subsurface. Hell, you don't have to use any of the new tools. Just go back to the old mining. It's still there.

 

[Kay Thaxby]

When I checked earlier, I got like 40% of a hopper of one subsurface fragment.

Um... you know you can easily get 40% off a single mining laser chunk, right? And you can continue getting them at a rate of about one every two seconds, literally with your eyes closed?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Um... you know you can easily get 40% off a single mining laser chunk, right? And you can continue getting them at a rate of about one every two seconds, literally with your eyes closed?

I guess. It has been a long time since I looked.

Anyways, I agree that subsurface extraction yields could be bumped a bit, for the added effort of getting them. Still think it's fun getting them though.

 

[TheSisko]

Actually, I think those subsurface deposits give you higher yields.

Yep, one Painite subsurface deposit I got filled over 50% of a bin.

If used correctly, the new tools are worth it. I'm terrible at aiming and I had no trouble hitting subsurface deposits. The trick is to place them centrally on the hardpoints, use a mobile ship (Cobra MKIV or Python) and get in really close to the rock.

 

[BDelacroix]

I rigged a krait. The two near window ports had the seismic charge and the abrasion on it when I went out breaking up rocks. Seemed to work well. As these are both near the center I guess I never ran into an aiming problem for that reason.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Yep, one Painite subsurface deposit I got filled over 50% of a bin.

If used correctly, the new tools are worth it. I'm terrible at aiming and I had no trouble hitting subsurface deposits. The trick is to place them centrally on the hardpoints, use a mobile ship (Cobra MKIV or Python) and get in really close to the rock.

Yeah, my next run is going to be out to the Pristine Metallics for another run, this time in a hotspot. Will use all the tools and see how it compares fun/reward-wise. Especially now that I know which rocks to crack and which to just surface-mine.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Kay Thaxby]

Anyways, I agree that subsurface extraction yields could be bumped a bit, for the added effort of getting them. Still think it's fun getting them though.

Indeed, but gameplay tools shouldn't just be added 'to break up the monotony' or 'because they're fun'. The basic equation of 'more difficulty = higher rewards' is pretty much Game Design 101, no? Otherwise the player has no actual reason, in gameplay terms, to bother with the harder-to-use tools.

And we can also add rarity to the equation (ie, more difficulty + more rarity = even higher rewards). I've just spent half an hour, in a pristine metallic ring, looking for a crackable rock, and I still haven't found one. If I had found one, from my limited experience so far, I would have got maybe 8 or 10 chunks at 60-80% each. I could have farmed literally hundreds of chunks with a mining laser in the same amount of time.

I mean, I'm gonna stick with the deep core, because let's face it, cracking rocks (when you finally find one to crack) is pretty spectacular. But until there's a rebalance the other two tools are basically worthless compared to the mining laser, if you want to actually be effective at mining.

(And it's a shame, because I really like the drill depth mechanic.)