the FSS, watching paint dry....

[Faded Glory]

Hogwash. It's like riding a bike or ice skating, neither of which are all that enticing the first couple times you try it. However, once you figure it out, it isn't that bad, and once you've had practice and get really good at it, you'll find you are having way more fun than when you were falling down on your behind every five seconds.

I don't think that's a great analogy. You are presuming that people don't like the FSS because they find it too difficult or challenging, but I don't think it's that. Sure, with riding a bike or ice skating you can have a miserable time until you reach a certain level of proficiency, but the FSS really isn't that challenging or difficult to use.

I did play it in the beta, took me about 15 minutes (if that) to set up the bindings, and didn't find it particularly difficult to use (in VR), even with the missing blue blobs. But I didn't like it...

While I accept it's more hands on and active than what we had before, just being active or hands on isn't enough to compensate for the fact that I don't find the environment engaging or fun. It's just repetitively 'twiddling knobs', to use FD's analogy with tuning a radio not to demean the activity, and while I could probably put up with using it occasionally if the result were compelling, I definitely don't want to be doing that more than flying my spaceships. It's not why I bought ED.

In the game now, if I do missions, I'll drop into the nav beacon rather than fire up the FSS. The only reason I could imagine using it would be to find a HGE USS, not something I do very often as that in itself is far from compelling game-play. As to exploring, I won't be doing that again, because that means likely as much time, if not more, in the FSS than flying my ships. Sure, old exploring was passive and potentially time consuming, but boy have FD swung the pendulum a long way in a very different direction...

Anyway, as it's almost entirely avoidable when playing in the bubble I can adapt and live with it. But I'm stopping by here just to point out that IMHO, as the discussion about marmite and vegetables alludes to, this system, this game within the game, is probably something that players will either like or dislike, it's not a matter of getting used to it, it's just that the game-play involved is very different to anything else in ED, or indeed the previous Elite games, none of which have taken us out of our cockpits in the way that the FSS does.

So, for those who like it, great and perhaps they'll explore as much as FD hope they will. For those who primarily played for exploration and don't like it, well it's ruined their game to a degree, and I find the lack of empathy from some towards those players disheartening.

 

[Cageman]

Oh, so the FSS is even more of a god-honk than I originally thought?

Nopes... It will only reveal the bodies... however, if you scan a planet, it will reveal x numbers of POIs (if it has any). It will list those as Geological, Bioligical, Thargoid, Guardian.

In order to scan those, you have to travel to the planet, probe it, and then it will reveal where those POIs are in such a way that you can simply target them and visit them.

EDIT: But I guess you are one of those that think the game is better off spending a week eyeballing a planet and _maybe_ discover something?

 

[Mangal Oemie]

FWIW, I am really enjoying the new mechanics. I wouldn't dare call myself an explorer, and for 3 years have barely left the bubble, as i am really a BGS player.

But I started exploring when the patch came out, and after getting used to the mechanics and bindings, I am really having a great time. I love that I know a system has never been visited before by seeing nothing on the radar when I jump in and honk. I scan the whole system, including icy balls and rocks. And when I see there are interesting features on a planetary body, I'll map it and take a look. Just this afternoon I found water magma and ammonia magma sites, which not only I had never seen before, but didn't even know those existed! I may not get the regional achievements for it, depending on how long I stay away, but I am not doing it for that anyway. For the first time, I feel like I am actually exploring and finding things, rather than farming explo data for our factions...

Only thing I am sorry about is that I didn't realize until parked at the water magma site I forgot to bring an SRV

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

Pressing one button to get the system map and flying around the system to get the surface data got replaced by pressing a lot of buttons.

And in addition to that now all scanned systems are known to all CMDRs.
And all the data get magically discovered if you are in close proximity of the object.
And now the FSS shows you what objects are in the system after the honk. Honk and you know if there is a ELW.
And the detailed surface scan now has infinite range and is instant on click.

The new system a big step in the direction of "auto-scan on entering a system".

All this new stuff in a new mode that disconnects the player from flying a space ship and puts the player into a purple haze cloud something.

Don't forget all the keybindings. Attempting to use the thing was such a chore that I'll have to make about 10 screenshots of all my keybindings and save them to my desktop, then reset all keybindings to default, then RE-customize them (same like when we got the exterior camera finally) and re-tweak all my sensitivities again... just to get some sort of controls to use the trash system that takes you out of the game of flying a space ship. I can't also wait for the people to die to things like white dwarfs or neutrons cause they are using the minigame while in supercruise, as most explorers would jump in, throttle zero, and honk / scan. And while they'll still throttle 0, im sure something somewhere will go wrong for someone and make a nightmare of the system.

Just wish the option to do the old way was available.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Nopes... It will only reveal the bodies... however, if you scan a planet, it will reveal x numbers of POIs (if it has any). It will list those as Geological, Bioligical, Thargoid, Guardian.

In order to scan those, you have to travel to the planet, probe it, and then it will reveal where those POIs are in such a way that you can simply target them and visit them.

EDIT: But I guess you are one of those that think the game is better off spending a week eyeballing a planet and _maybe_ discover something?

The FSS - that thing you use, out of the cockpit, while parked by the star - gives you all the information the old ADS gave you, PLUS the information that the old DSS gave you, PLUS an indication of exactly which planets have POIs on them, AND what type they are.

Yes, you have to play a minigame in order to unlock all that information, but since there is no failure mechanism to it, you could train a monkey to do it.

That, my friend, is far more godly than the ADS ever was.

As far as finding POIs go, I'd have preferred a 'hotspot' mechanism where you get an enhanced probability of finding a POI, but you have to actually find it for yourself. You know, do a bit of exploration.

 

[Scubadog]

So anyone else find this incredibly boring? I think I'm going to quit while I'm ahead here, way too many controls to map and rather confusing to boot.[where is it] Heading back to bubble to try out the new mining. Hope you die hard explorers have fun!

I'm right there with you. Spending hours trying to play this mini-game isn't not as fulfilling as going to the planets or moons and scanning them. I find the FSS far too difficult to find and detail anything. Literally, I'm just dragging the reticule all over hoping that I have the tuner right and hoping I suddenly see the waveform arrows pop up. NOTHING even helps me start in a general spot. At least in the old system when I "honked" with the Advanced scanner, all the bodies showed up. I could then just quickly look at the system map to see if any of the bodies warranted visiting for a DSS.

 

[Scubadog]

The FSS - that thing you use, out of the cockpit, while parked by the star - gives you all the information the old ADS gave you, PLUS the information that the old DSS gave you, PLUS an indication of exactly which planets have POIs on them, AND what type they are.

Yes, you have to play a minigame in order to unlock all that information, but since there is no failure mechanism to it, you could train a monkey to do it.

That, my friend, is far more godly than the ADS ever was.

As far as finding POIs go, I'd have preferred a 'hotspot' mechanism where you get an enhanced probability of finding a POI, but you have to actually find it for yourself. You know, do a bit of exploration.

No failure mechanism? I have yet to find all the bodies, much less be able to scan details of them, using this new system. It's almost like feeling my way around in the dark. Or at least nearly that random.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

I'm right there with you. Spending hours trying to play this mini-game isn't not as fulfilling as going to the planets or moons and scanning them. I find the FSS far too difficult to find and detail anything. Literally, I'm just dragging the reticule all over hoping that I have the tuner right and hoping I suddenly see the waveform arrows pop up. NOTHING even helps me start in a general spot. At least in the old system when I "honked" with the Advanced scanner, all the bodies showed up. I could then just quickly look at the system map to see if any of the bodies warranted visiting for a DSS.

Yep... but the devs clearly think this is a case of "you think you want the old way back, but you don't". Just like Blizzard.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

No failure mechanism? I have yet to find all the bodies, much less be able to scan details of them, using this new system. It's almost like feeling my way around in the dark. Or at least nearly that random.

It's supposed to be a simple game of chase the glowing blobs.

Are you using VR? I recall that the blobs weren't always working in VR in the beta.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Yep... but the devs clearly think this is a case of "you think you want the old way back, but you don't". Just like Blizzard.

I don't think they are that invested in the game or the players when it comes to issues like this.

More its a case of design by committee.. during some high level design meeting, someone important threw out and approved stuff like "must support multicrew" which screwed the feature from the start. During the beta a few more of these became obvious forgotten now.. yeah such an epic cost to the soul of elite for some business requirement somewhere.

The draconian enforcement also doesn't make much sense.. i'll rudely speculate was from lack of confidence in their own system and some more than passively aggressive encouragement to use it. Having an alternative in zero way compromises the function encapsulated in the fss. Anyway. Shouldn't be thinking about this stuff its just a game.

From the other thread i feel like saying this whole thing is actually frontiers lesson to learn, not our game to save. Theres no tangible scenario apart from that.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I hate it far, far, far less than jump-honk-scoop-fly-way-the-frell-over-there-point-wait-fly-way-the-frell-over-there-point-wait...

Like enough that I've actually gone exploring.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I hate it far, far, far less than jump-honk-scoop-fly-way-the-frell-over-there-point-wait-fly-way-the-frell-over-there-point-wait...

Like enough that I've actually gone exploring.

"Exploring is great now I can do it from my couch"

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

I don't think they are that invested in the game or the players when it comes to issues like this.

More its a case of design by committee.. during some high level design meeting, someone important threw out and approved stuff like "must support multicrew" which screwed the feature from the start. During the beta a few more of these became obvious forgotten now.. yeah such an epic cost to the soul of elite for some business requirement somewhere.

The draconian enforcement also doesn't make much sense.. i'll rudely speculate was from lack of confidence in their own system and some more than passively aggressive encouragement to use it. Having an alternative in zero way compromises the function encapsulated in the fss. Anyway. Shouldn't be thinking about this stuff its just a game.

From the other thread i feel like saying this whole thing is actually frontiers lesson to learn, not our game to save. Theres no tangible scenario apart from that.

Maybe, but unless they rip it out or modify it to be more common sense friendly and less cumbersome, it's gonna hurt them. I'm seeing even backers complaining now about this system and they are some of the most diehard of diehard fans Frontier has, people who spent hundreds before the game even officially launched... and those very people are unhappy. I don't know what's going on at Frontier, I'm not a game designer or someone brilliant, and I have no clue how business works... but this just really kills the feeling of enjoyment. I don't recall any patch or update adding this much controversy in Elite ever... this is just truly a kick in the gut.

 

[wakko151]

You could always raise the black. Thats never boring. Its always fun and challenging. And its alot more effective then honking a horn or staring at a minigame. You could choose to take what you want and leave others to figure out how to recuperate. The Meta has always been activity. What better way to destroy activity by suggesting a group of people split up, go solo, and fly around the galaxy endlessly honking there horn...

 

[Stigbob]

REAL explorers like sprouts. Just sayin'

You won't grow up big and strong unless you eat your greens.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

Sprout - No
Cauliflower - No
Marmite - No
FSS - Resounding YES

Am I all caught up?

 

[WR3ND]

...

Am I all caught up?

The Feline Sanitation Service has you covered. [up]

Spoiler

...

But... What are we talking about again?

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

Sure it's not a Fantastic Scanning System?

 

[WR3ND]

Sure it's not a Fantastic Scanning System?

Call it whatever you like, but how good is it at discreetly flushing questionable foods?

Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[moorison]

The FSS - that thing you use, out of the cockpit, while parked by the star - gives you all the information the old ADS gave you, PLUS the information that the old DSS gave you, PLUS an indication of exactly which planets have POIs on them, AND what type they are.

Yes, you have to play a minigame in order to unlock all that information, but since there is no failure mechanism to it, you could train a monkey to do it.

That, my friend, is far more godly than the ADS ever was.

As far as finding POIs go, I'd have preferred a 'hotspot' mechanism where you get an enhanced probability of finding a POI, but you have to actually find it for yourself. You know, do a bit of exploration.

To be fair, the ADS and DSS from before had no failure mechanism either, unless you count a misdiagnosed planet type as failure. The game does not know what you are looking for right now and adds a voucher nonetheless. It was always your choice how much time you invest in revealing and tagging a system. The new system requires more time if you have to move around the star to find the planets hiding behind it. As I said before, the goal of this change seems to be for the surface sites to actually be visited - a lot of assets the majority of players don't even try to look for. Now they know that they won't waste hours on finding a spot. Previously the only surface structures you could be sure to be there were geological features as indicated by the DSS. Maybe the higher chance of finding biological features means that we can find the pattern all these planets have in common and the information had been available all along as well.

I think your hotspot-idea has value, as a middle way between the previously too small positional indicator and the now available too precise one. The number of possible surface features being revealed on zoom-in is a bit pointless in my opinion, since you find them after using the DSS anyway and a higher number does not mean more variety.