The Star Citizen Thread V10

[MTBFritz]

It's the case that so-called "crowdfunding" doesn't work with "just play money". It's needs people ridiculously overspending and I can prove that.

You calculate with the crowdfunded income as being the only available capital which is not the case for the idea of crowdfunding. Usually teams who cannot secure investment money make it crowdfunding to "proof" public interest which also lessens the investor risk by a margin. Cash Roberts said that the original kickstarter money was meant to secure investors after proving the demand. I m not sure what a game like Star Citizen would ve cost originally (I doubt CRoberts does or did) and while the 200 millions are probably wrong its the only number we have so lets use that.

CiG made the leap from kickstarter+investors=game to kickstarter+self-funded=game. In its original concept kickstarter works and probably does without whales as well because thats a phenomenon that only rose after a while. Its still shifting risk from the investors to the players but to a smaller degree and the people spending on kickstarter projects usually know that they have a high risk of never seeing a return value. Thats why spending thousands of $ is simply irresponsible, does NOT guarantee the making of the game nor does it ensure the making of a quality game. Its just voluntarily taking more and more risk on your wallet.

 

[Tippis]

Hi
so am i right in saying that all the speil about the amazingly realistic physics in the game and how thrusters would work is now officially all horse manure and it is just as faked as the handing in elite dangerous?

Weeellll… no.

It's actually officially all horse manure and is even more faked than the handling in Elite Dangerous.

At the heart of SC is a bog-standard physics engine with Newtonian mechanics and rigid body physics and spring dynamics and all that usual stuff, same as in ED. The difference is that SC has (effectively) unlimited thrust on all axes, whereas ED has (different) limits on all of them (as well as on wheels and struts and the like); that in SC, the movement is limited by preset goal time for any kind of manoeuvre, whereas in ED they are limited by a max total allowable thrust; and that movement is SC is the result of the parameters of the underlying physics engine being rewritten on the fly to always yield the preset goal time for the manoeuvre being commanded, whereas movement in ED is the result of the commanded thrust (subject to said limitations) being fed into the physics engine.

Put another way, in ED, there is a physics-based flight/drive model that is fed parameters such as weight, thrust, springiness, depending on the different vehicles, whereas in SC, there are different flight/drive models that are being generated based on the goal time parameters that are set for each vehicle. In a sense, SC does not have “a flight model” since each ship has its own unique model based on how the designer wants it to behave — the physics involved are then calculated backwards from that desired outcome.

This was done so that the designers would have a single set of easily-understood parameters (the goal times) to worry about, rather than having to balance all kinds of physical forces and masses and other horrible stuff. The end result was that the system was impossible to understand and balance. It is now slated to be replaced by something that, hopefully, uses forces and masses and other standard concepts to drive a unified physics simulation.

 

[Cobra1984]

To be precise, according to Pritchett's document the simulation system "works" but it has been tuned in a way that it produces completely unrealistic thrust behaviour in order for ships to fly as game devs want them to (because the pure physics based results produce unplayable behaviors). At the bottom line, this completely unrealistic thrust is in essence the same result as if you fully faked the behaviour for the ships in the first place, like most every other space sim does. So, this simulation is, at least so far, a big fat waste of time and effort and a completely unnecessary level of extra code and complexity.

I can +1 this and add the following-

No consideration was given to building a system which would cope with running realtime in an online game. That's where experience in building these systems to produce the required behaviour whilst working efficiently and being sufficiently lightweight is priority 1.

The overhead of JP's system meant it was pushed into a background batch process at the beginning of this year.

They chased that unicorn for 4 years.

 

[Vasious]

I mentioned this on SA the other day....No takers though, not funny enough.

Are all the assets we see in the PTU just the virtual sets and props from SQ42? Is this why the train set suddenly appeared without anyone asking for it? Thoughts.

Didn't they say the Mining platform that has a major part in SQN 42 needs a transit system to get about?

 

[Dooguk]

Didn't they say the Mining platform that has a major part in SQN 42 needs a transit system to get about?

I don't follow it that closely really. It just seemed strange that in a space game this train system suddenly turned up out of nowhere. And I'm wondering why have been wasting their time with all this, when there is sooooo much more to be getting on with. SQ42 is going to be coming out first so they must be building stuff for that. Then the term "shared assets" came to mind. So don't be surprised if you see a "never been done before" chase across the carriage rooftops in SQ42.

 

[MTBFritz]

I don't follow it that closely really. It just seemed strange that in a space game this train system suddenly turned up out of nowhere. And I'm wondering why have been wasting their time with all this, when there is sooooo much more to be getting on with. SQ42 is going to be coming out first so they must be building stuff for that. Then the term "shared assets" came to mind. So don't be surprised if you see a "never been done before" chase across the carriage rooftops in SQ42.

Yep I would understand the sudden focus on something as secondary as ground transportation when the rest of the game would be in place....you know to "flesh it out"? But maybe CiG thinks that Star Citizen in its current form IS THE GAME so they can simply finetune everything, improve stability and performance then call it a day? A frightening thought ^^

 

[Mole HD]

Yep I would understand the sudden focus on something as secondary as ground transportation when the rest of the game would be in place....you know to "flesh it out"? But maybe CiG thinks that Star Citizen in its current form IS THE GAME so they can simply finetune everything, improve stability and performance then call it a day? A frightening thought ^^

I'd say you were correct in that assumption... [yesnod]

 

[Goose4291]

Yep I would understand the sudden focus on something as secondary as ground transportation when the rest of the game would be in place....you know to "flesh it out"? But maybe CiG thinks that Star Citizen in its current form IS THE GAME so they can simply finetune everything, improve stability and performance then call it a day? A frightening thought ^^

It might also possibly just be incorporating work already done on S42. From what I recall, isnt there a bit in the last trailer where Mark Hamill is talking to John Rhys-Davies' character at a rail station of some form?

 

[Backer42]

You calculate with the crowdfunded income as being the only available capital which is not the case for the idea of crowdfunding. Usually teams who cannot secure investment money make it crowdfunding to "proof" public interest which also lessens the investor risk by a margin.

Nonsense, that's not the idea crowd funding. That's just another kind of scam.

Nobody needs to lessen the risks for investors by paying their game in advance. Investors get a return for risking money, taking the risk not the consumer's task.

 

[MTBFritz]

Nonsense, that's not the idea crowd funding. That's just another kind of scam.

Nobody needs to lessen the risks for investors by paying their game in advance. Investors get a return for risking money, taking the risk not the consumer's task.

Well it makes sense to me is all I can especially as I read several statements of team leaders saying just that so /shrug

 

[Mr.Nowak]

A very entertaining Twitch streamer SheriffEli is playing some SC now. If you want to check out some gameplay live you can have a look. He also has Voice Attack enabled.

https://www.twitch.tv/sheriffeli

 

[Vasious]

It might also possibly just be incorporating work already done on S42. From what I recall, isnt there a bit in the last trailer where Mark Hamill is talking to John Rhys-Davies' character at a rail station of some form?

From some wiki
"Shubin mining platform has been part of Squadron 42 probably since we first started. It’s a 6 km long base with huge lasers that mine asteroids tethered to this base."

I am sure they mentioned they implimented some transit system for the Mining platform due to it being 6 km so the need to get around in a timely manner

 

[Vasious]

Here we go

https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-bringing-the-verse-to-life

"The gargantuan Shubin station is a great example of the really impressive levels and physical spaces in the game. You can see how the scale of it and the atmosphere from lighting to layout further carries the visual storytelling, so important to the medium. A lot of SQ42’s narrative is affected by, and centered around, the Shubin mining company, and as we were developing the story and looking at the level design, what started out as a relatively simple mining platform eventually morphed into the massive facility you see here. It even necessitated the inclusion of a monorail system, as seen in last month’s update, to make getting around and more convenient."

 

[Fishy]

"It even necessitated the inclusion of a monorail system, as seen in last month’s update, to make getting around and more convenient."

Chris Roberts: Y'know, a game dev with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it!
(audience laughs)
Homer: Heh heh! Mule.
Chris Roberts: The name's Roberts. Chris Roberts. And I come before you good people tonight with an idea. Probably the greatest... Aw, it's not for you. It's more of a that-other-space-game idea.
Mayor Quimby: Now wait just a minute! We're twice as rich as the players of that-other-space-game! Just tell us your idea and we'll pay for it!
Chris Roberts: All right, I tell you what I'll do. I'll show you my idea! I give you the Shubin Monorail! (audience gasps) I've sold monorails to Aido, Stalford, and New Corvo, and by gum, it put them on the roadmap!
Well, sir, there's nothing on Daymar
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail! ...
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Chris Roberts: What's it called?
Patty & Selma: Monorail!
Chris Roberts: That's right! Monorail!
(crowd chants "Monorail" softly and rhythmically)
Miss Hoover: Does it have to run on Amazon cloud?
Chris Roberts: Well other engines aren't allowed.
Apu: Is there a chance the alpha could end?
Chris Roberts: Not on your life, my concierge friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Chris Roberts: You'll all be given pretend jobs.
Grampa: Were you sent here by the devil?
Chris Roberts: No, good sir, I work for Anvil.
Chief Wiggum: The wings came off my Hurricane.
Chris Roberts: Just buy an Idris, my good man.
I swear it's Stanton's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Chris Roberts: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Chris Roberts: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But the Flight Model's still all weird and broken!
Bart: Sorry, Mom, Commandos have spoken.
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!

 

[Dooguk]

SB: I think that a really important point within SQ42 and Star Citizen, and overall in animation on this game, is we try not to focus on the word AI, even though in the reality of it it is a AI, or it is AI code, what we’re trying to achieve is that this is a living, breathing world; it’s a living, breathing universe, and everybody who is in it has their own likes, their own dislikes, they have their own backstories, even characters that you may fight against instead of treating them like just a random guy on the screen, that that person got there somehow, and they have some sort of goal, and that helps us to drive how those characters react, whether it’s in a combat space or in a space like the gameplay story, adding far more depth to the gameplay experience.

This I can't wait to see

 

[Dooguk]

Here we go

https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-bringing-the-verse-to-life

"The gargantuan Shubin station is a great example of the really impressive levels and physical spaces in the game. You can see how the scale of it and the atmosphere from lighting to layout further carries the visual storytelling, so important to the medium. A lot of SQ42’s narrative is affected by, and centered around, the Shubin mining company, and as we were developing the story and looking at the level design, what started out as a relatively simple mining platform eventually morphed into the massive facility you see here. It even necessitated the inclusion of a monorail system, as seen in last month’s update, to make getting around and more convenient."

Can I say called it even though it was in the past? Thought not. Nostradumbas.

 

[Asp Explorer]

This I can't wait to see

Suddenly, and without warning, the t-pose virus strikes leaving the overwhelming majority of humanity unable to move, let alone defend themselves from the Vandull onslaught. In these few, final and utterly desperate hours the only things that animate between us and outright annihilation are YOU, the Immersion Charioteers.

Answer the call!

Buy an Idris!

 

[Dooguk]

Suddenly, and without warning, the t-pose virus strikes leaving the overwhelming majority of humanity unable to move, let alone defend themselves from the Vandull onslaught. In these few, final and utterly desperate hours the only things that animate between us and outright annihilation are YOU, the Immersion Charioteers.

Answer the call!

Buy an Idris!

They could call it Wasteworld

 

[Mole HD]

A very entertaining Twitch streamer SheriffEli is playing some SC now. If you want to check out some gameplay live you can have a look. He also has Voice Attack enabled.

https://www.twitch.tv/sheriffeli

I use the very boring ASTRA for VA in SC...same as I do in E-D since both the Elite and SC profiles come with the voice pack. I gotta get me some Kate... [yesnod]

 

[n4p0l3on]

Nonsense, that's not the idea crowd funding. That's just another kind of scam.

Nobody needs to lessen the risks for investors by paying their game in advance. Investors get a return for risking money, taking the risk not the consumer's task.

You're wrong, released projects like kcd and battletech (and others like poe or divinity OS perhaps) were exactly like he said, only partial funding from the crowdfunding platform that doubled as reassurance toward other investors.

And that is actually the norm in crowdfunded games for the AA or bigger games, only the tiny indie games that fully funded by Crowdfunding.

cayman island games is an exception in this case.