the FSS, watching paint dry....

[Faded Glory]

As I've mentioned before though, I would like some additional options and workarounds for both situational and exploration approaches. I honestly don't want to undermine the new mechanics, just to have additional approaches that mesh better with legacy exploration gameplay. I think this is doable and I hope Frontier sees fit to account for it with subsequent updates.

To me it's just about being given the 'right' tools for the job. The FSS is primarily a very powerful 'discovery' tool, you can determine the presence of POI's from vast distances, and can determine the content of USS at the click of a button. Both great capabilities to have and potentially providing a gateway to further content and game-play.

It's not, IMO a great exploration tool because, in the context of the game, it necessitates game-play that while pretty easy and quick, is still game-play that the player has no choice over, and if they 'discover' nothing of interest will presumably become irritating after a while.

The old honk allowed players to quickly decide if they wanted to spend time in a system for whatever reason. Since it didn't, and wouldn't give an indication of potential POI's, I don't see it as overlapping with the FSS. If POI's are what a player is after they will need to use the FSS, and if they are looking for specific types of planet or system layouts, then once they have determined that there's something there of interest they should be able to either use the FSS to scan them, or if they prefer fly out to the body and scan them passively.

Leaving the FSS as it is now, but adding a system map overview (entirely optional, potentially even a separate module) would take nothing away from those that like to use the new mechanics exclusively, leave the ability for everybody to discover the existence of POI's by using the FSS if that was what they wanted and let those who want nothing to do with the new game-play to ignore it.

 

[WR3ND]

...

I think within the context of the game as a whole, the new mechanics should retain some meaningful purpose, though as you mention, still be at least somewhat optional for some and the various gameplay approaches.

For me, something like having an additional module to interpret the honk and provide black bodies in a system, targetable from the system map, etc., would provide a reasonable balance, without revealing straightaway what the worlds are.

I don't mind supercruise to worlds to discover what they are. For me, it seems more inline with "exploration." I compare it to going off the beaten trails and map markers too see with my own senses what's out in the wild woods.

 

[Faded Glory]

I think within the context of the game as a whole, the new mechanics should retain some meaningful purpose, though as you mention, still be at least somewhat optional for some and the various gameplay approaches.

For me, something like having an additional module to interpret the honk and provide black bodies in a system, targetable from the system map, etc., would provide a reasonable balance, without revealing straightaway what the worlds are.

I don't mind supercruise to worlds to discover what they are. For me, it seems more inline with "exploration." I compare it to going off the beaten trails and map markers too see with my own senses what's out in the wild woods.

Yes, the optional module would be a good approach, because one objection to having a fully populated system map by default that I have heard and that to me makes sense is that some players like to uncover a system one body at a time, and check on their progress by looking at the system map from time to time, so not fitting that optional module would solve that issue.

With regards to the idea that the old system map reveal gave too much away, I don't really buy that, as the FSS gives away all that information, just in a different format. Markers on a line that can be identified with practice just as easily, and perhaps with even greater accuracy than the graphics that were presented in the system map.

I do think that it's reasonable to have players who want to harness the power of the FSS (to locate potential POI's) to have to actually use it, in other words search for and locate bodies they are interested in using the FSS mechanics, not have targeting information taken from a system map reveal carried over to the FSS, but honestly, it's really not that difficult.

The overriding principle for me is that players should have a choice of tools to use to achieve things in the game, just as we do have in so many other areas. Different ships, different weapons, all can be used at the player's discretion in areas that are much more competitive than exploration. I really am at a bit of a loss as to why some players seem to care so deeply about how another person plays the game...

 

[WR3ND]

...

Just so. I generally prefer going exploring in a combat loaded Vulture, though for DW2 I've had to strip it down to reach Beagle Point. That's my choice though, of course, and there are better ships suited to the specific role. I'm using the ship in this expedition more for nostalgia and to accomplish getting the ship out there and back – a challenge worthy of the effort to me and the legacy of the ship, as it were.

Given the current state of exploration mechanics, I'll likely be doing more jump-honking than anything else, unfortunately.

Depending on where things stand when I get back from DW2, I may retire the ship's primary role.

Here's the ship's write-up and legacy, for those interested in such things. → https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Continuation?p=6238654&viewfull=1#post6238654

 

[barcode]

For some. For me, I prefer exploring the cosmos in first person on my terms, not being required to park in supercruise and go into a weird (subjectively) third person map view. This goes for both the DSS and the FSS, but especially the FSS, as it's needed to determine what, if anything, a system actually contains; those systems with only stars not withstanding. At least the honk still provides a system body count notification. Would be great if those bodies at least had headings too after the honk. Black bodies on the system map would be preferable.

Fair enough. I'm putting this one down to personal preference.

 

[WR3ND]

Fair enough. I'm putting this one down to personal preference.

Seems reasonable. I think there are others that share some of these sort of preferences though, so it may be something worthwhile for Frontier to account for.

Cheers.

 

[barcode]

Seems reasonable. I think there are others that share some of these sort of preferences though, so it may be something worthwhile for Frontier to account for.

Cheers.

That said, I think there's something to the idea of putting wireframe models in the system map if you just honk and move on. Maybe label them as "unidentified body" or something.

 

[WR3ND]

That said, I think there's something to the idea of putting wireframe models in the system map if you just honk and move on. Maybe label them as "unidentified body" or something.

Great idea. Would be cool if this could be added to the cumulative exploration codex, as it were.

I haven't been to the bubbles yet since the update, but I hear they function in a similar fashion with already discovered systems, fleshing out the system maps to some extent.

If the worlds aren't actually discovered and tagged yet, but the system was already visited and "honked," I think this makes a lot of sense. Also works as an additional cumulative exploration progression mechanic and incentive.

Really great idea. [up]

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Great idea. Would be cool if this could be added to the cumulative exploration codex, as it were.

I haven't been to the bubbles yet since the update, but I hear they function in a similar fashion with already discovered systems, fleshing out the system maps to some extent.

If the worlds aren't actually discovered and tagged yet, but the system was already visited and "honked," I think this makes a lot of sense. Also works as an additional cumulative exploration progression mechanic and incentive.

Really great idea. [up]

I'd like the shared exploration database to be optional. It's fine that it caters to the multiplayer crowd, since ED is to some extent a multiplayer game, but since ED is ALSO to some extent a single player game it seems reasonable to allow players the option of exploring it as a single player. That's not to say that I'd get my own personal 'first discovered' tag on Sag A*, just that I'd still be able to go through the process of uncovering what's there even though a million people have already visited.

 

[Shir]

Late to the party. The Fss looked as something so unfun to me that I kept postponing doing it. But I found it ok to setup and use after long searches on the internet.

Well.. exploration in elite used to be about flying a spaceship, chilling and relaxing, enjoying the view, traveling in this huge world. Now it is about looking at a black screen with tiny dots and symbols playing a dark 2d mouse game. No way.

The game still has many areas that I enjoy (like the superb fun of learning to fly from the beginning to fa off), but not enjoying exploration means elite taking a big hit for me. Checking X4 atm.

Edited: my suggestion is, restore the honk in it's previous form, and let the fss do the work that the previous dss used to do, providing material and planet info. Then use the new dss for planet mapping and pois. But really, play the game a bit more

 

[pocketmoon]

Well.. exploration in elite used to be about flying a spaceship, chilling and relaxing, enjoying the view, traveling in this huge world. Now it is about looking at a black screen with tiny dots and symbols playing a dark 2d mouse game.

Exactly how I feel. FSS hides exloration. It's like exploring the Alps by googling them from the airport.

The only change needed to fix this is for the FSS to reveal the bodies on the system map (with minimal details and no reward). Then we all have the choice to fly-by explore of mini-game. Win Win.

Rob

 

[Simon Templar]

Late to the party. The Fss looked as something so unfun to me that I kept postponing doing it. But I found it ok to setup and use after long searches on the internet.

Well.. exploration in elite used to be about flying a spaceship, chilling and relaxing, enjoying the view, traveling in this huge world. Now it is about looking at a black screen with tiny dots and symbols playing a dark 2d mouse game. No way.

The game still has many areas that I enjoy (like the superb fun of learning to fly from the beginning to fa off), but not enjoying exploration means elite taking a big hit for me. Checking X4 atm.

Edited: my suggestion is, restore the honk in it's previous form, and let the fss do the work that the previous dss used to do, providing material and planet info. Then use the new dss for planet mapping and pois. But really, play the game a bit more

Yes I’m sadly a broken record but I can’t believe just how incredibly boring and noddy I find this new exploration stuff. It’s like some cheap arcade game from the 1980’s, Ghostbusters or something, chasing around endless dots on screens without feeling that it bears any relation to life. I’m trying to stick with the game but won’t waste another minute on this incredibly boring exploration, which means that for the first time I’m open to having my head turned by other games. Suddenly I’m having to try to like Elite, and just can’t believe how out of step I feel, that so many people seem to love the new exploration setup. Between that and the endless blue prompts splashed across the screen like something out of Outrun it suddenly feels arcady, lightweight and very disposable. I certainly won’t spend any more money in the ED store as I suddenly don’t see myself as a long term player. Extremely sad about it to be honest. I just feel as though everyone else gets some secret that I don’t - even those who don’t mind the visuals, dots, colours, screen etc - I don’t understand why there aren’t more complaints that the FSS is just incredibly boring to use. I’m a currency trader and have recently found myself booting up the laptop to scan for trades instead of playing Elite as my work is more fun. Depressing how out of step I feel. I feel as though my friends all like the new kid, I don’t and suddenly I’m Billy No Mates and not in on the action. No one understands me, sob!!

 

[Enderby]

They updated the previous, admittedly, very basic exploration ‘gameplay’ with something even worse - albeit dressed up as ‘engaging gameplay’.

I dont think what we had before was great by any means but, with hindsight, it was better than this pseudo ‘gameplay’ twaddle.

(Re: fss, not the probery, which is ok with me).

 

[Simon Templar]

Yep. What did they do... I think the problem is that they took feedback from a very narrow slice of the player population who were mostly pvpers.

Sad but true. :-(

Hense my comments above dont think it was any deep space explorer came up with that mechanic.

I know i moan alot, but it is hostile. The FSS is a fun killer and its a terrible thing to do to people that been playing for ages. All those key binds i dunno how console players cope tbh

We don't. It's complete junk and has me pondering my ED future, sadly. And not spending anything more in the store regardless of whether I play on.

They updated the previous, admittedly, very basic exploration ‘gameplay’ with something even worse - albeit dressed up as ‘engaging gameplay’.

I dont think what we had before was great by any means but, with hindsight, it was better than this pseudo ‘gameplay’ twaddle.

(Re: fss, not the probery, which is ok with me).

If the system let me rep a post more than once, you'd receive a hatful.

o7

 

[NeilF]

So anyone else find this incredibly boring? I think I'm going to quit while I'm ahead here, way too many controls to map and rather confusing to boot.[where is it] Heading back to bubble to try out the new mining. Hope you die hard explorers have fun!

It does seem a tad detached from the core view/experience. If we could simply at least Super Cruise to a target while then continuing to use the FSS to detect other objects this would be a small step in the right direction.

Then TBH, the FSS also needs a few HUD elements to give you situational awareness. eg: A basic incorporated scanner so you can know if other ships are around, and the distance to target, so if you are Super Cruising to a body, you know when you are getting close to it.

I also feel, the final view of objects when you discover them is somewhat lacking for some reason. ie: You don't get a very good/clear view of the planet you've worked to discover.

AND, the fact you can't enter the system map from the FSS? Daft!

 

[Burke]

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Yes I’m sadly a broken record but I can’t believe just how incredibly boring and noddy I find this new exploration stuff. It’s like some cheap arcade game from the 1980’s, Ghostbusters or something, chasing around endless dots on screens without feeling that it bears any relation to life. I’m trying to stick with the game but won’t waste another minute on this incredibly boring exploration, which means that for the first time I’m open to having my head turned by other games. Suddenly I’m having to try to like Elite, and just can’t believe how out of step I feel, that so many people seem to love the new exploration setup. Between that and the endless blue prompts splashed across the screen like something out of Outrun it suddenly feels arcady, lightweight and very disposable. I certainly won’t spend any more money in the ED store as I suddenly don’t see myself as a long term player. Extremely sad about it to be honest. I just feel as though everyone else gets some secret that I don’t - even those who don’t mind the visuals, dots, colours, screen etc - I don’t understand why there aren’t more complaints that the FSS is just incredibly boring to use. I’m a currency trader and have recently found myself booting up the laptop to scan for trades instead of playing Elite as my work is more fun. Depressing how out of step I feel. I feel as though my friends all like the new kid, I don’t and suddenly I’m Billy No Mates and not in on the action. No one understands me, sob!!

Check out the threads in the Exploration forum - you'll feel much less alone.

 

[Simon Templar]

Check out the threads in the Exploration forum - you'll feel much less alone.

You have my thanks, Commander.

o7

 

[Sooden]

We all know we are in this situation because I took a year off and let elite do what they wish

So, where could it have gone?

When in the other mode, stuff moves around and changes. Relevant data to the analysis mode is now on your HUD.. Less relevant data is iconizes

This gives you what you need and also makes it very clear what mode you are in.

Before anyone rips me a new one. The example image is just to explain what I’m saying… took 5 mins to knock up, so very crude.

The thing made out of coloured rings would be the spectrum readout, giving a quick representation of composition, total signals and total astronomical.

Spoiler

 

[Rat Catcher]

We all know we are in this situation because I took a year off and let elite do what they wish

So, where could it have gone?

When in the other mode, stuff moves around and changes. Relevant data to the analysis mode is now on your HUD.. Less relevant data is iconizes

This gives you what you need and also makes it very clear what mode you are in.

Before anyone rips me a new one. The example image is just to explain what I’m saying… took 5 mins to knock up, so very crude.

The thing made out of coloured rings would be the spectrum readout, giving a quick representation of composition, total signals and total astronomical.

Sorry, your picture doesn't show - just a line. Can you try again please?