Anti ADS people JUSTIFY your no compromise stance here.

[Leper Messiah]

I think there is a good argument to be made that OP's entire premise is flawed. But I have still not see an argument for the ADS other than not liking the FSS, or failing to adapt to the change.

I think its a valid point that FD or any developer should not bend to the will of a minority of the player base that reacts negatively to what is considered a positive change (by most). If only for the fact that it sets a precedent that if you whine loud enough, you get what you want.

It would be an entirely different scenario if a bulk of the player base hated it, and people were dropping the game in droves. But that is clearly not what we are dealing with here.

and what do you "think" my premise is? (strawman argument?)

It may be a minority but it may still be a significant number of players, and seeing as the FSS made exploring easier, the increase in "explorers" is no marker of how much better the new system is. It's a lot easier to make a lot more money and a LOT of new "explorers" are using the FSS to do that.

The ONLY thing the ADS did quicker was populate the system map and nav panel. FSS is faster in everything else.

 

[Old Duck]

But many people liked flying their ships, and in a compromise they can do that and you (and me) can use the FSS.

That's a poor argument, because the FSS does not stop people from flying their ships. It might slow them down very slightly (literally a few seconds), but it doesn't stop them. I know, because I fly my ship more now than I did before the FSS!

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Look at the bright side. We got the FSS, not TESS.

 

[Leper Messiah]

That's a poor argument, because the FSS does not stop people from flying their ships. It might slow them down very slightly (literally a few seconds), but it doesn't stop them. I know, because I fly my ship more now than I did before the FSS!

I'll concede, but only if they use the FSS twiddle mechanic first, and this thread is not about why they choose to not use it! Some else can have that job, this is bad enough!!

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The FSS doesn't stop you flying your ship, in fact you have to be flying to use it.

Parked.
You have to be parked to use it.

 

[Vedmo]

Keep the ADS out of the game to keep forum activity charts bumping.

 

[Bartizan]

Parked.
You have to be parked to use it.

More precise, you have to be in SC but throttle 0, but you're still moving, 30km/s?

 

[Leper Messiah]

LOL, no, more like how every thread devolves around 10 pages in. I'm talking about the Antifssa goons raiding "I love the new FSS" threads and openly mocking the FSS, Frontier, and anyone who likes the FSS. I'm not saying this is everyone, but the numbers are on par any "uncivil" people on the anti-ADS side.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy teasing (you're all just a bunch of tourists compared to me, LOL), but both sides are become uncivil and even hostile. Denying this by laying the blame on just the "anti-ADS" crowd will endanger the very compromise you seek.

Missed this, well those people are equally in the wrong, I must not frequent those threads then! I agree both sides have become uncivil and hostile, that's why I created this thread. I tried to word it as sterile and unemotional as I could (clearly I failed ).

Maybe someone should do a thread asking why people dislike the FSS? with caveats to filter out (hah) the nonsense!

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

double sigh, this thread wasn't set up to discuss pro ADS sides motivations for wanting it back, but yes ultimately EVERY decision a human makes has some bias towards selfishness, even selfless decisions if they make the person feel better about themselves. But that's a whole different discussion isn't it. If I hadn't put those caveats in then EVERY single reply would have been along the lines of "because I don't want it back". Which would completely defeat the purpose of the thread. I wanted well thought out reasonable points....and only got 2 so far.

And I've addressed Dev time as a valid reason in the first post. , the debate on that is how much time and effort it would take, if it wasn't a lot of effort on FDs part would you be averse to the ADS returning?

Triple sigh, YES i would be against them bringing it back

1) for lack of any compelling reason to bring it back
2) a majority of players would not use it/ do not want it/ do not care
3) it sets a precedent that if even a small group whines loud enough, they get what they want
4) it would add nothing to the game that is not already there (FSS is now part of the game. If we had FSS from the start, I doubt anyone would be calling for an ADS-like feature)

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It didn't insta reveal everything though, it required flying UP to the planets for the info we get via the FSS in seconds. If people prefer flying their spacecraft to do things WHY are you against that as an option? You use the FSS, they use the ADS.

It insta revealed every single object in a system. A few bits of information is neither here nor there. The only reason to fly to an Earthlike or Water World was for credits or tags and that is the exact same now. The information it possessed is meaningless unless you can land on that planet which again is the same now.

For some reason some people thought getting that information is exploring. It is not. It is useless information gathering. The only planets you can actually explore are the ones you can land on. This has not changed in the new version. To explore them, you still need to travel to them. You cannot sit in orbit around the main star and explore the planets, or rings around planets/stars/moons or explore strange oribitals. You still need to travel there.

The only difference now is that we need to discover these things ourselves with the tools provided.

The only thing the ADS does is forfeit gameplay for the sake of getting to see something new. Something that I do not thing should be in the game and shouldn't have been in from the word go.

I can see it know, if the ADS is put back in there would be the usual complaints that there is no gameplay or any tools in exploration as all discovery would again be done with a 5 second press of a button, again.

So the only conclusion I can get is that people wan't a short cut to avoid the gameplay. It would be like doing a raid, avoiding the bit in between and going straight loot.

All the gameplay they had before is still there, it hasn't gone away, it is just now behind another gameplay wall instead, which should have been there from the very beginning.

Adding the old ADS in would be a waste of dev time, could introduce more bugs, could have compatibilty issues with the current system as the codex and other stuff looks like it as been re/made to work with the FSS.

And for those saying when in the bubble that it is exactly the same as when we had the old ADS, it is not. It only gathers the planets that have been scanned and tagged. If there are planets 100,000ls away that nobody decided to tag as it was too far away, they will not show up after the honk. It is not the same system. Similar, yes, but not the same.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

More precise, you have to be in SC but throttle 0, but you're still moving, 30km/s?

'Coasting'?
'Tickover'?

 

[Old Duck]

this thread is not about why they choose to not use it! :

But it could be, as people have made the argument that players can do everything they used to with the ADS using the new FSS, but they choose not to, and that's on them, not Frontier. There are exceptions (like those who can't physically manipulate the FSS controls), but for the most part people are demanding the ADS back because they don't like the FSS. It has nothing to do with flying or sightseeing (lame duck excuses that I've seen more than once), it's simply because they do not like (or even hate) the FSS.

Back to your topic, it's no bother to me if they want their ADS back in its original form. Heck, if it'll shut them up about the FSS, give it to them NOW! Just don't touch my FSS

 

[IndigoWyrd]

And how does bringing the ADS back WITH the FSS stop all that? answer it does not. You can still enjoy all the FSS goodness if you want no-one wants the FSS removed.

ah all this Elite not designed by commitee stuff again, so FD have made NO decision with feedback from the players then? not one....nadda, zilch.......incorrect, so Ashenfox's victory meme a tad too early

Because it still involves bringing back the ADS, which is honestly pointless. The FSS is a slotless scanner, and fulfills the role as Frontier desires. But let’s play pretend a minute, the ADS is restored. Your account balance is charged the amount of credits you have already been credited and... if you’ve already filled the slot previously occupied by the now absent ADS with something else, that module is removed to storage so the ADS can be restored.

Only for you to discover that it no longer can tell you the location of a mission target, as that portion of game coding was removed to make way for new FSS functionality. But to accommodate, that code is reinjected, but this causes an issue with the FSS now, leaving the only solution to be a full rollback to 3.2, causing everything everyone else has done since the launch, including all that Void Opal mining to be wiped, and suddenly you “I can’t go on without the ADS” types are more hated by the rest of the community than station tanners, tankers and psychopaths. People who would never otherwise engage in PvP suddenly swarm to Kill the ADS squadron and hunt you into bankruptcy, driving you into solo, as even Mobius declares open season on anyone with an ADS.

Or, if you’re on a low melodrama diet like me, you can liken this to when the telephone providers said “that’s it, no more rotory (pulse) dialing, everything goes touch-tone.” Why? I knew more than a few 70+ year old folks who were just beside themselves the day those new fangled phones showed up, free of charge, and sobbed when they had to plug them in and take out their technological holdovers that were preventing the wide-spread adoption of newer technology and innovations, simply because it meant pushing a button to send a digital signal instead of turning a dial to send an analog pulse.

Or how about when Microsoft pulled the plug on Windows XP? Or the Red Hat repositories were changed? Or Motorola dumped Apple and there were no more Machintoshes?

Did any of them consult with you first to make sure it was ok?

As for the purpose of Focused Feedback, and how it confirms Elite is not Design-by-Committee... why they do it, I can’t speak on their behalf, only share my own observations. It appears to be a sort of pre-beta sneak peek into what they’re going to do along with a window of opportunity for us to field suggestions that will improve these new features.

There were a few, a very few, who tried to cling to the ADS in the FF, but clearly this was not to be, as here we are.

So here’s a tissue. Dry your collective eyes and embrace the future, it is now.

Can I get a :

?

 

[Stigbob]

Parked.
You have to be parked to use it.

Nope you need to adjust your throttle to use it, an odd objection in spaceship flying game.

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Parked.
You have to be parked to use it.

More like a rolling stop, which is apparently legal in space.

 

[askavir]

That's a poor argument, because the FSS does not stop people from flying their ships. It might slow them down very slightly (literally a few seconds), but it doesn't stop them. I know, because I fly my ship more now than I did before the FSS!

And the ADS prevents none from using the FSS. All while, as already demonstrated several times, not providing ADS users any kind of advantage either over the FSS users. So why is asking for the ADS back as the same old optional module seems to be viewed by some as something so unreasonable?

 

[IndigoWyrd]

More like a rolling stop, which is apparently legal in space.

In space no one can hear you cry over improvements.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

In space no one can hear you cry over improvements.

In space no one can objectively state what an 'improvement' is.

 

[Old Duck]

And the ADS prevents none from using the FSS. All while, as already demonstrated several times, not providing ADS users any kind of advantage either over the FSS users. So why is asking for the ADS back as the same old optional module seems to be viewed by some as something so unreasonable?

I don't know, you'll have to ask them. I'm not opposed to the ADS, but rather some of the arguments made to support the ADS. If people want the ADS back because it shares the same initials as their girlfriend, fine, just be up front about it [haha]

All I ask is that you keep your peanut butter ADS out of my jelly FSS.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

And the ADS prevents none from using the FSS. All while, as already demonstrated several times, not providing ADS users any kind of advantage either over the FSS users. So why is asking for the ADS back as the same old optional module seems to be viewed by some as something so unreasonable?

Let me put it this way...