Competence does not need any excuse.
Modes Can we secede Open Play data from other modes.
- Thread starter Alim Zaruda
- Start date
Competence does not need any excuse.
Oh, forum goer formerly known as 90sKid. Here's where you're wrong, as usual.
You assume that the incoming missions that a player might have are ones that they aren't willing to fail, and that said player isn't willing to lose millions if it means hurting the faction you are supporting.
Fact of the matter is, unless you know that a) a player is actively working against the faction you're supporting; and b) that player is utterly incompetent at BGS manipulation; there's no scenario where the faction you're supporting will come out ahead. Even if they are hostile and incompetent, the best that the faction you're supporting can hope for is breaking even on the exchange.
There is one simple reason why, as has been explained to you dozens of times: "Defending" a faction via PvP is functionally identical to Attacking a faction via PvP. By trying to "defend" a faction via PvP, you're doing the attacker's job for them. If they're anything like me when I'm attacking a Federation faction, when they see a hollow triangle moving to interdict them, they're probably thinking, "Well, my job just got easier. Come, you fool. Come dance to my tune. Bwa ha ha ha ha!"
Sorry... that was a failed attempt at humor. Should've included the smiley's, just to make sure.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Sorry... that was a failed attempt at humor. Should've included the smiley's, just to make sure.
Ah.
Soz.
Sarcasm detector needs tweaking....
I don't know what to do now..... 90skid didn't argue back. :O
Apparently, my humor needs work first thing in the morning. [rolleyes]On a more serious note, in these discussions, I've noticed a general trend: those most supportive of "open only" BGS play generally exhibit a distinctive lack of basic understanding about how the BGS works. Not everyone, by all means, but certainly the majority. They also have no ideas on how to make PvP relevant to BGS play, beyond forcing those who have no interest in PvP into Open so they can do their PvE in Open where they can get blown up.
I've come to the conclusion that cry of "Oh, won't someone think of the BGS!" is the current casus belli of the GIFT-ed player base, who have been deprived of their preferred target audience thanks to Frontier's brilliant tri-mode system. Left with an Open community that consists of players who consider them an annoying pest at best, and targets to be preyed upon at worst, they have been stripped of the illusion that they are mighty PvPers, and they don't like it. So they want their preferred target audience back in Open, so that they can once again kill without the risk of being killed in return.
Are there "open only" advocates who don't fit this mold? Certainly. But I think they are ignoring nearly 40 years of online gaming development, which is littered with the ruins of games that tried for the proverbial holy grail of a mixed PvP/PvE environment. Such an environment is a natural breeding ground for GIFT-ed behavior, and in-game penalties to "crime" have utterly failed at deterring such behavior. Nothing short of a hard PvP switch has been sufficient at curbing the GIFT-ed enough to retain a game's player base, unless a game makes GIFT an actual selling point.
Frontier's novel solution to this ancient conundrum, letting players decide who they want to play with, on a session by session basis, has created an environment that is, in my experience, utterly astounding in a game like this: an Open Mode that is appealing to a significant majority of this game's player base, a player base which is also growing. That is because GIFT-ed in-game behavior requires three ingredients to flourish: opportunity, anonymity, and an audience. In an online game, anonymity is a given. Very few players will choose to play a game with their real name attached to their avatar. Nothing short of a PvP switch seems to work at removing opportunity.
Frontier's mode agnosticism removes the third leg of the GIFT triangle instead: it allows gives the audience of the GIFT-ed an out that doesn't involve quitting the game entirely. In fact, it encourages the GIFT-ed to be on their proverbial "best" behavior. If they want an audience, then they have to rely on their charming personalities, not the game developers, to attract one for them. As a player who's been playing online games for nearly thirty years, most of which tried for a mixed PvP/PvE environment, I find the irony it adds to the game rather enjoyable.
I think it's cute that you guys still have hope left after 5 years![wacko]
Not sure at this point if you can call it "hope"
As some of the folks complaining have only been with us a couple of years or less.
Makes you wonder why they bought a game with and advertised mode system really?
I didn't buy Naval Action for example, because I looked at the website / store page and knew it wasn't for me.
I certainly wouldn't buy it then moan there is no private group mode for me and my mates to play in.
That would be silly, buying something that I'm not going to like then stamping my feet for it to be changed to suit me.
If this is how you "truly" feel then it is clear that you have not read the forums at all and are throwing the victim card, which I find amusing as you want to try and insult me by calling me a carebear.
Or you could really go for it and call me a Pegasister!
Goose4291
Banned
I also think its quite cute the way you guys react when a dev mentions open only powerplay.
I'd like a bypass of the 3 modes argument and have them just make and new Ironman mode that everyone gets an optional fresh CMDR use for just that.
It's just as cute when a Dev laughs at the mention of PvP in a live stream and PvP'ers get upset over it.
Remember, not all Devs want PvP, and Sandro is on another project now.
I started a thread in General about Ironman, will make another soon as FDev didn't answer that one.
Personally, the way I react is because I'm of the opinion that PPOO will create more problems while not solving any of the ones it purportedly addresses, especially since Frontier actually addresses them via the changes they propose to the game's mechanisms. I also consider the idea that Powerplay was somehow supposed to about PvP to be revisionist history, especially given how heavily PvE oriented Powerplay is, to the point where a player cannot complete a single objective for a Power via PvP. The best that PvP can accomplish is to delay a player from another Power from completing their objective, and given the amount of effort required to do that, they could easily counter ten other players by actually completing the PvE objectives for their Power.
That being said, I have no objection to players playing Powerplay in a way that's fun for them, even if it's horribly inefficient. That's the way I play this game, after all: fun over efficiency. I am under no illusions that the way I participate in Powerplay could be more efficient, primarily because the things I do BGS wise don't earn merits, just at best alter the threshold for fortification, and because, like a significant majority of players, I primarily play in Open.
You want PvP to have relevance to Powerplay. I get that, and I can even support that, if that relevance is done by encouraging fun PvP by inserting objectives that can only accomplished via PvP, or by rewarding PvP in such a way that it encourages good PvPers to participate in PvP on the other end of asymmetrical PvP. Holding content that players have enjoyed for three years hostage in order to force them to participate an activity they don't enjoy, on the other hand, does nothing to encourage participation in PvP in general, let alone fun PvP specifically.
The current state of PvP oriented Powerplay is as good as it's likely to get already. Those who don't play in Open already are simply going to drop Powerplay altogether if it goes Open Only, while those who don't participate in Powerplay, but join due to it going Open Only, will soon quit because the type of "content" they desire will fail to materialize, but not before driving off additional players for whom the current status quo was already too close to their "unfun" threshold. Those who are already cheating will continue to cheat, and will continue to do so until Frontier fixes the problems with the current rule set.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Sandro is also a Memer. For all we know you could be him lol. =P
All I know is, from my past working with other gaming companies before. Sometimes Devs and community managers have stealth accounts and play around a bit. Ive watched it happen
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Sandro is also a Memer. For all we know you could be him lol. =P
All I know is, from my past working with other gaming companies before. Sometimes Devs and community managers have stealth accounts and play around a bit. Ive watched it happen
Funny, I though you were Sandros alt with how often you kept going "Sandro said..."
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
PPOO will just be the last huge disappointment to the Open only/PVP crowd. It solves nothing of the problems that people want repaired...and will exacerbate the problems there currently are with that part of the game. The salt from those tears will be really fun to collect!