I hope DW2 gets ganked all the way to Beagle Point.

[Muetdhiver]

This I think is a big part of the problem.

NPCs present no danger, even with running shieldless, weaponless builds for exploration, trading, whatever.

Kitting out for PvE combat is vastly different from any kind of PvP combat, because the optimal weapons/modules are very different.

Indeed. But a trader cannot fit for PvP combat, nor can an explorer or a miner.

And when I mine I don't fit (and can't) to fight a wing of ganker's FDL. There is no way.

I don't mind actual pirates (very rare birds those) and a trader/miner can deal with them with a proper functional fit.
But Apex PvP wings ? ROFL.

 

[Han Zulu]

They are camping on the star. I dropped in this system with my PvP FDL, was ganked right away by 4 ships.

1. immediately initiated high wake + evasive maneuvers
2. Had my FSD reset (grom missiles?)
3. Lost 1 ring of shields during evasive maneuvers (prismatics; 3,000mj)
4. Got away and felt lucky to do so

You really expect an explorer build to survive this encounter? My mistake was going there alone, I should've found 3 other friends first.

Exactly. Unless explorers now are expected to all go in PvP equipped FDLs and in wings. It just won't work. The imbalance is too great between OP PvP ships and anything that's not.

And what's the point in having a mass jump with a number of explorers at a given jump time if they have to keep on jumping out and in and out and in and out and in and no one can stay there long enough to do the mass jump event?

Open isn't the place to be for these things. Not sure if a dedicated PvE server will do the trick though.

Good thing is that 99.99% of the expeditions will go unnoticed and unaffected by griefers/gankers.

 

[Goose4291]

You really expect an explorer build to survive this encounter? My mistake was going there alone, I should've found 3 other friends first.

As I always say, look at the ship in my sig, remember I run exclusively in open in high risk hotspots, and ask that question again.

And whats stopping an explorer taking the same precautions you did?

As to winging, I agree with your assessment. I wouldnt go near that place if I intended on staying there sometime without a 4 man nav locked crew

 

[Ian Skippy]

A rather large percentage of the playerbase wants exactly that: a cooperative atmosphere where players can work together without experiencing PvP. It’s why so many of the PG’s are so very popular, it’s why Solo mode is so popular, and it’s why the offline mode five years ago was so incredibly desired. You probably thought your post presented something bad, but not for many players.

Like usual, many people who prefer PvP feel threatened by the very notion of an Open PvE option. Probably because they realize that most of the players would migrate to the PvE mode given the chance, but that’s only proving the point that it is so strongly desired and needed.

PvP should be an option, not the default.

I'd much prefer this too happen in one mode rather than splitting the community. Have ultra-sec regions where there is godlike security, all the way to zero sec. Make it scary to enter Archon territory, but have Sol and such be perfectly safe.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This I think is a big part of the problem.

NPCs present no danger, even with running shieldless, weaponless builds for exploration, trading, whatever.

Kitting out for PvE combat is vastly different from any kind of PvP combat, because the optimal weapons/modules are very different.

Since DWE2 includes landing on planets, there won't be many shieldless builds I recon. And since the build is an exploration build, weapons aren't necessary, just enough shields to escape an attacker.

But I fail to see how that's a problem.

 

[PeLucheuh]

A rather large percentage of the playerbase wants exactly that: a cooperative atmosphere where players can work together without experiencing PvP. It’s why so many of the PG’s are so very popular, it’s why Solo mode is so popular, and it’s why the offline mode five years ago was so incredibly desired. You probably thought your post presented something bad, but not for many players.

Like usual, many people who prefer PvP feel threatened by the very notion of an Open PvE option. Probably because they realize that most of the players would migrate to the PvE mode given the chance, but that’s only proving the point that it is so strongly desired and needed.

PvP should be an option, not the default.

Open is the most popular mode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52kOyADxK5E&feature=youtu.be&t=3122

Open players are not threatened at all by this "Open PvE only" option nonsense because they know it comes from a minority who just want to eat their cake and have it too.
Open mode already provide a cooperative atmosphere (does not belong to PvE btw) where people can work together with and without experiencing PvP.

You can have your restrictive mode by setting a PG if you don't like the way FDev rule their game in Open and want to force your way on others.

PvP functionality is a non optional core design of the multiplayer modes.

 

[Red Anders]

Any player that loses a hull for any reason would respawn at the nearest dock surely? There are loads of docks between the bubble and Colonia so the respawning player may lose their scan data but catching back up to the pack wouldn't be such a big issue as it was when hull loss returned you to the last place you docked.

Beyond Colonia would be a different matter, I believe the Colonia bubble is the closest port to Beagle Point.

Yes, you're right and I was posting in a hurry so used 50K LY as a round figure. It will actually be about 46K by the later stages of the expedition, i.e. when players are getting close to Beagle.

I think the salient point is really that the only time it will be invoked is if someone specifically sets out to ignore the private group rules. I have no beef with PVP players at all but they can't say on the one hand 'oh go to a private group if you don't want PVP' and then intentionally hijack said private group for the sole purpose of screwing with players who are playing there to begin with because they don't want to participate in PVP.

Or rather they can do that, but in the process they lose any credibility whatsoever and provide a reason for FDev to cease to be concerned about their opinion.

So IF it happens, players will at least know they have one less thing to worry about.

By the way has it actually happened yet? Or is this just a bunch of blowhards spraying faux outrage around as usual?

Whats amazing me is why these idiots are sticking around to be killed and interdicted.

If I was there, I'd have mashed my FSD out of that system the moment I saw my first FDL with hardpoints deployed.

Indeed. As far as playing in open is concerned, DW shouldn't be any different from open at any other time.

 

[Muetdhiver]

As I always say, look at the ship in my sig, remember I run exclusively in open in high risk hotspots, and ask that question again.

And whats stopping an explorer taking the same precautions you did?

As to winging, I agree with your assessment. I wouldnt go near that place if I intended on staying there sometime without a 4 man nav locked crew

An explorer can survive just fine. All he has to do is not use an exploration fitted ship. Very logical.

 

[Goose4291]

Exactly. Unless explorers now are expected to all go in PvP equipped FDLs and in wings. It just won't work. The imbalance is too great between OP PvP ships and anything that's not.

And what's the point in having a mass jump with a number of explorers at a given jump time if they have to keep on jumping out and in and out and in and out and in and no one can stay there long enough to do the mass jump event?

Open isn't the place to be for these things. Not sure if a dedicated PvE server will do the trick though.

Good thing is that 99.99% of the expeditions will go unnoticed and unaffected by griefers/gankers.

There is a huge gulf between a bare minimum D-rated (if that) shield build (which from the vids Ive seen seem to have made up the lions share of the fallen) and a PvP death machine isnt there though?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Open is the most popular mode:

"A rather large percentage of the playerbase wants exactly that"
Large percentage != majority.

 

[Goose4291]

An explorer can survive just fine. All he has to do is not use an exploration fitted ship. Very logical.

*blank stare*

Because obviously my Adder is a 3,000 mj shield three railgun equipped death machine.

 

[NeilF]

This I think is a big part of the problem.

NPCs present no danger, even with running shieldless, weaponless builds for exploration, trading, whatever.

Kitting out for PvE combat is vastly different from any kind of PvP combat, because the optimal weapons/modules are very different.



Also, there need be no reason for PvP. Get over that.

Well add to this, an exploration ship is typically built for minimal strength/weight etc, and for maximum distance/economy.

Now add into the mix Mr Toxic Ganker outfitted courtesy of Engineering's incredibly misconceived and misbalanced mechanics with uber destructive weapons etc... Followed by FD's continued decision not to apply any logical C&P mechanics to "non-government" systems (even though report crimes should surely work and the Pilots Federation supposedly have a zero tolerance of mis-conduct etc?)

How is the outcome going to be good?

 

[QBit4D]

Indeed. But a trader cannot fit for PvP combat, nor can an explorer or a miner.

And when I mine I don't fit (and can't) to fight a wing of ganker's FDL. There is no way.

I don't mind actual pirates (very rare birds those) and a trader/miner can deal with them with a proper functional fit.
But Apex PvP wings ? ROFL.

You can fit and fly those to survive gank attempts though.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Open is the most popular mode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52kOyADxK5E&feature=youtu.be&t=3122

Open players are not threatened at all by this "Open PvE only" option nonsense because they know it comes from a minority who just want to eat their cake and have it too.
Open mode already provide a cooperative atmosphere (does not belong to PvE btw) where people can work together with and without experiencing PvP.

You can have your restrictive mode by setting a PG if you don't like the way FDev rule their game in Open and want to force your way on others.

PvP functionality is a non optional core design of the multiplayer modes.

You seem to confuse correlation and causation. People might be playing in open for other reasons than
seeking PvP.

I'm playing in open not because I'm interested in PvP, but to see players and do PvE coop.

If there was an open server with restricted PvP (wanted or PvP flag), IMO the split would be 95%/5%.

 

[biot]

...

I think the salient point is really that the only time it will be invoked is if someone specifically sets out to ignore the private group rules. I have no beef with PVP players at all but they can't say on the one hand 'oh go to a private group if you don't want PVP' and then intentionally hijack said private group for the sole purpose of screwing with players who are playing there to begin with because they don't want to participate in PVP.

Or rather they can do that, but in the process they lose any credibility whatsoever and provide a reason for FDev to cease to be concerned about their opinion.

...

Pretty much nails the hypocrisy on the head.

 

[Muetdhiver]

You can fit and fly those to survive gank attempts though.

Yes. But then I'm either : gimped in what I do in game, OR flying a ship larger than desired to accomodate all the junk.

And for exploration we are speaking gimping yourself seriously.

 

[Arkadi]

I think the answer is to make PvE and PvP requirements match each other more closly. Frontier made a first step in this direction by beefing up NPC's in combat zones.

I think Frontier is doing a good job on bringing the parts of the game together and I don't get all the whining on here.

Use the game to your liking, accept the features and modes as part of the game and get over your squalls.

There is enough content and possibilities to play for all playstyles, in the boundaries of what is technological possible with the given network architecture.

There is a report button. Use it.

There are modes. Use them.

Shut up and play ;p

 

[Han Zulu]

There is a huge gulf between a bare minimum D-rated (of that) shield build (which from the vids Ive seen seem to have made up the lions share of the fallen) and a PvP death machine isnt there though?

Actually, even with a combat ready ship I had way back, a python with A-rated components, I was killed in 10 seconds. Couldn't even get away fast enough. I just didn't have enough engineering done and didn't have prismatic shields and all other bells and whistles. I was killed by a PvP OP FDL. Had no chance. I know that even this ship i had wouldn't be good for exploration.

My current exploration ship has an engineered A rated shield, shield boosters, and hull mods, and even improved thrusters, and I'm 99% sure that I would die if ganked by 4 OP FDLs.

The difference is actually huge, and when there's a wing of 4 of them...

With that said, just to let you know, I'm okay with it. But I'm also okay having PGs that are safe for such ships to be used, and specialized PvP OPs for Open.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think the salient point is really that the only time it will be invoked is if someone specifically sets out to ignore the private group rules. I have no beef with PVP players at all but they can't say on the one hand 'oh go to a private group if you don't want PVP' and then intentionally hijack said private group for the sole purpose of screwing with players who are playing there to begin with because they don't want to participate in PVP.

Or rather they can do that, but in the process they lose any credibility whatsoever and provide a reason for FDev to cease to be concerned about their opinion.

Zactly.

So IF it happens, players will at least know they have one less thing to worry about.

By the way has it actually happened yet? Or is this just a bunch of blowhards spraying faux outrage around as usual?

Yep

Then, I was blown up by another player in the PG, who violated the rules of the PG. I hit the rebuy screen and paid my dues, respawned back at a station. I don't fly without rebuy, and even though there were rumors and speculation about anti-ganking measures and rebuy forgiveness for this trip, I chose to abide by the old rules and rebuy anyway.

 

[Han Zulu]

*blank stare*

Because obviously my Adder is a 3,000 mj shield three railgun equipped death machine.

How many SRVs do you have on that one? And DSS?