If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.

[IndigoWyrd]

Read my exciting CZ analogy from the previous page.

It's not that the FSS stops me doing things, it just makes doing things (subjectively) meaningless because the sequence is (subjectively) wrong.

I did, but that analogy doesn’t work for me, because that’s not now nor ever has been, how CZ’s work. You see ships on your radar, and this has not changed. What is it about the sequence of the FSS that seems so subjectively wrong? You’re pointing a nice, fancy, compound sensor array at a planet and receiving a wide range of data, one planet at a time. This seems a very logical sequence of events to me. Blowing a giant space-fart and echolocating everything in a system seems illogical to me. With little in the line of sophisticated equipment we discovered many of the planets in our own solar system, but Uranus eluded detection and confirmation until 1781, Neptune in 1846 and Pluto in 1930.

I'm looking for moons with an orbital period below 0.5dy, if possible with a non-zero inclination. Idealy, the main body would be a good looking gas giant or regular planet with atmosphere and/or ring.
Extra points if the skybox background is pretty due to a nearby nebula/planetary nebula or distant O/A/B star.

BTW, all these things are provided by the FSS. Surface features are just extra gravy and materials are of little use to me.

So are you with us (no to ADS), or against us?

 

[Enderby]

I keep hoping that I’ll wake up to find that the FSS debacle was just an unsettling dream.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I did, but that analogy doesn’t work for me, because that’s not now nor ever has been, how CZ’s work. You see ships on your radar, and this has not changed. What is it about the sequence of the FSS that seems so subjectively wrong? You’re pointing a nice, fancy, compound sensor array at a planet and receiving a wide range of data, one planet at a time. This seems a very logical sequence of events to me. Blowing a giant space-fart and echolocating everything in a system seems illogical to me. With little in the line of sophisticated equipment we discovered many of the planets in our own solar system, but Uranus eluded detection and confirmation until 1781, Neptune in 1846 and Pluto in 1930.

Firstly, the CZ thing was an analogy. I know it doesn't work like that, I was using it to demonstrate how the exploration sequence has changed from ADS to FSS.

The sequences:

ADS:
Locate body -> Fly to body -> Analyze body

FSS:
Locate body -> Analyze body -> (Optional) Fly to body

I don't like analyzing a body until I've flown to it. It's as simple as that.


Logic doesn't really come into a subjective opinion, but, since you brought it up:

The FSS also blows a giant space-fart and echolocates everything in the system. It just requires you to pan around and tag the bodies using your magic telescope. It still tells you exactly where everything is.

 

[Auronio]

Making the planet/system scan even more tedious and repetitive with the FSS scanner, definately spoiled the fun in exploration.

"Hell is all about repetition!" (Quote: Colm Feore - Storm of the Century)

Believe it or not fellow CMDRs - it took me one month! to understand this new FSS. Yes, you can call me an idiot.
And I was anathematising the new mechanic - cause I didn't get the idea.

Until I changed my keybinds to the preset ones this weekend and suddenly - worked.

Yes, I know, some are dumb and take longer to understand the most easiest tasks...

At first glance - the new scanning mechanic is great. Simple. Straighforward. Great.

Like it. So much of an improvement.

And the mapping - which I got on the first day - I like(d) anyway.

So imho 100% improvement.
Well done FDev!

2 cts ...
o7

 

[sollisb]

I've worked out for me at least, in VR, the FSS is a nitemare giving me a creak in my neck which probably where most of the hate (from me) comes from.

In 2D it's fine, kinda. Probably because the screen is a distance away from my eyes, where as VR is right in my face ?

One thing I did notice; It's been claimed here on many occasions, that the FSS does exactly what the old ADS did. That is not true. After some 3000ly tonight, doing a lot of FSS, I notice, if I Honk, the system maps stays empty, until I use the FSS to scan.

Some Qs for you aficionados;

If I open FSS and see a basic blank screen, which has populated bottom bar. Where do I start navigating to?
How come FSS has no 'Discovered by' down the bottom of the screen, yet when I jump into System Map it ays discovered by [insert name]. This seems to be intermittent.

A thing I would change is that a system already discovered should show all the bodies in the System Map. There is no point in me finding them 'again' . My Car GPS is able to update its maps in 2019, why can't we update the gallop in 3034 or whatever it is

 

[Juniper]

How's this for an idea for a 'module' that gives 'ADS-like functionality'?

A heavy (class 3) module, which, when activated, populates the system map as the old ADS used to do. No detailed information - just a position display of the planets etc.

However: this is NOT 'Exploration data'. It isn't retained once you jump out of the system, and you cannot sell it. It's effectively like a hi-res 360 degree photograph of the entire system, and it gives you positions (not orbits) of planets only.

Thoughts?

 

[Riverside]

How's this for an idea for a 'module' that gives 'ADS-like functionality'?

A heavy (class 3) module, which, when activated, populates the system map as the old ADS used to do. No detailed information - just a position display of the planets etc.

However: this is NOT 'Exploration data'. It isn't retained once you jump out of the system, and you cannot sell it. It's effectively like a hi-res 360 degree photograph of the entire system, and it gives you positions (not orbits) of planets only.

Thoughts?

On what basis are you proposing the downgrade from a fully functional ADS? Would you want this?

 

[OBYOZ]

A
Dead
Subject

 

[Para Handy]

........

One thing I did notice; It's been claimed here on many occasions, that the FSS does exactly what the old ADS did. That is not true. After some 3000ly tonight, doing a lot of FSS, I notice, if I Honk, the system maps stays empty, until I use the FSS to scan.

Some Qs for you aficionados;

If I open FSS and see a basic blank screen, which has populated bottom bar. Where do I start navigating to?
How come FSS has no 'Discovered by' down the bottom of the screen, yet when I jump into System Map it ays discovered by [insert name]. This seems to be intermittent.

A thing I would change is that a system already discovered should show all the bodies in the System Map. There is no point in me finding them 'again' . My Car GPS is able to update its maps in 2019, why can't we update the gallop in 3034 or whatever it is

1. That is how it works - virgin system, nowt known BUT there is a passive detection radius (I don't know what dimension) within which the DiscoScan "discovers" stuff (stars, planets, asteroids) - same as the old scanner.

2. Either move the camera to a blob and tune to determine what is giving that blob OR tune to a signal you want to find (ELW, WW etc) and then move the camera to find the solid circles (bodies of that sig). You chose whether you are a cherry-picker or a completist.

3. When you zoom in on a body it tells you if First Discovered.

4. It does - arrival in a fully-discovered system reveals a complete system map. Some are shown as fully known others show as Unknown - both as per the old system.

 

[Thatchinho]

I've worked out for me at least, in VR, the FSS is a nitemare giving me a creak in my neck which probably where most of the hate (from me) comes from.

In 2D it's fine, kinda. Probably because the screen is a distance away from my eyes, where as VR is right in my face ?

One thing I did notice; It's been claimed here on many occasions, that the FSS does exactly what the old ADS did. That is not true.

Yep, it's not true, and it's been corrected many times by various people.

After some 3000ly tonight, doing a lot of FSS, I notice, if I Honk, the system maps stays empty, until I use the FSS to scan.

Yeah, and you'll also come across systems where some bodies appear in the System Map (and NavPanel and HUD) but others don't.

The general rule is that if a cmdr has previously Discovered a body then it will appear in the SysMap, etc. as Unexplored. What you see for those bodies is the same info as you would have got from an ADS honk. (Discovered in this context is that they've L2 or L3 scanned it and handed the data in to UC.)

The exceptions are bodies which you've Discovered yourself, for which you retain data as you would have done previously, and well known systems where you get L3 info on the bodies as you would have done previously.

Some Qs for you aficionados;

If I open FSS and see a basic blank screen, which has populated bottom bar. Where do I start navigating to?

The honk will also determine the orbital plane of the system. This will appear in the FSS screen pretty much similarly to how orbit lines appear. Set the FSB (the signal bar at the bottom) to where there's a signal being shown, and then pan along the orbit lines. You'll see directional arrows appear around the reticle when near a body. If you can see there are Gas Giants (signals towards the right end of the FSB), then it can be better to go for those first as zooming in on them will also reveal the position of any bodies orbiting them, which might not always be obvious otherwise.

How come FSS has no 'Discovered by' down the bottom of the screen, yet when I jump into System Map it ays discovered by [insert name]. This seems to be intermittent.

Not sure. It seems rare. It might be a bug, or it might possibly be a rare coincidence in the timing of someone else handing in data to UC, and the update pushing through. Maybe a bit of both.

A thing I would change is that a system already discovered should show all the bodies in the System Map. There is no point in me finding them 'again' . My Car GPS is able to update its maps in 2019, why can't we update the gallop in 3034 or whatever it is

That's how it works already (bugs/oddities excepted), unless you mean that the bodies should show with their name and L3 info instead of Unexplored? In which case I half agree, but on the other hand the precedent's already there for info on populated systems not being publicly available and UC paying for it, so the reasons for that would still presumably exist. Plus there's still stuff to find that can't be spotted by the L3 info, and so there needs to be some encouragement to players to scan places.

Hope that helps / clarifies (as appropriate). o7

 

[Spacecat]

Agreed, the scanning thing is superfluous busywork. Really, pointing at a thing and waiting for a second for it to "focus" would have been enough.

 

[Juniper]

On what basis are you proposing the downgrade from a fully functional ADS? Would you want this?

On the basis that the only perceived downside that I can see from not having the ADS is that you actually have to do some work with the FSS to discover the layout of the system. The spectral map gives you the make-up of it already at a glance.

No, I wouldn't want it. But I'm putting it out there as a compromise idea for those that want the old placeholder mechanics back.

Also, "press a button = make money" was always stupid and always needed to go.

 

[Riverside]

On the basis that the only perceived downside that I can see from not having the ADS is that you actually have to do some work with the FSS to discover the layout of the system. The spectral map gives you the make-up of it already at a glance.

No, I wouldn't want it. But I'm putting it out there as a compromise idea for those that want the old placeholder mechanics back.

Also, "press a button = make money" was always stupid and always needed to go.

When you say actually having to do some work to discover a system you mean to find out all the info? Because the ADS honk doesn't give you everything. It's just a different slice of the pie, nether process gives you everything without some work.

"press a button = make money" is still in the game btw.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

On the basis that the only perceived downside that I can see from not having the ADS is that you actually have to do some work with the FSS to discover the layout of the system. The spectral map gives you the make-up of it already at a glance.

No, I wouldn't want it. But I'm putting it out there as a compromise idea for those that want the old placeholder mechanics back.

Also, "press a button = make money" was always stupid and always needed to go.

The money you made from the ADS alone was trivial - 500 Cr for each body, regardless of type.

In order to make money you had to do some work and fly around the system.

The FSS replaces that work some trivial panning/tuning activity that makes it much quicker to make credits.

So tell me again what's 'stupid and needs to go'.

 

[OBYOZ]

My idea, probably been said before but here we go anyway...

The pan around (to a solid grey circle) in the FSS fills the system map with a black body with no details and the nav panel with unexplored marker.

Then,

With a zoom, distance and type (picture of Ew, ww etc.) appear, also a marker (pos/neg) if any signs of settlements/non human but just a yes/no not details.

Then

Fly to and probe for full reveal including planey composition.

This is logical, i don't know why it wasn't done like this in the first place.

 

[lenna]

The probing/mapping functionality has the advantage of being quick & easy on landable planets where there is a reason to map them (to locate POIs). For gas giants it is a chore but one that can be skipped & left for the more tenacious player to tag.

Fundamentally, I disagree with the mini-game approach to the surface scans. For example, there should never have been a "par score" for surface scans - irrelevant and far from an immersive factor. With the probe mechanic, a principle of triangulation could have been implemented for say crashed vessels. A single probe could detect something (or a number of somethings) for example and know the general direction of it but not the exact location, further probe launches could then be used to further pinpoint the POI(s) assuming the probe target points sufficiently surround it/them. More prominent POIs may be locatable with a single probe, assuming they are in range of the probe that is.

Ironically I think the 'hunt the blue blob' FSS mechanism would have been ideally suited to hunting for POIs or other hotspots on planet surfaces. Far from the system drop-in point being stationary in supercruise is much less of an issue and that final step in the discovery process can be much more of a time sink because it's at the player's discretion.

Essentially, FSS for planet side points of interest would probably have been one of the better ways and would have precedent - the SRV scanning mechanism is essentially that but from a surface roving perspective.

The space golf aspect makes exploration a joke in ED, the FSS just makes the entire game unappealing due to it's pervasiveness. The payout aspect is moot in regards to how bad these mechanics have been implemented - they could make the payouts a billion times what they are but that would still not change the general negative impact of the mechanics to ED as a whole.

If either of these mechanics were in the game at release, I would have canned the game and demanded a refund on day zero - which is exceptionally rare for me, I don't think I have ever requested a refund for a game.

 

[Burke]

Fundamentally, I disagree with the mini-game approach to the surface scans. For example, there should never have been a "par score" for surface scans - irrelevant and far from an immersive factor.

Yeah i agree with this. The par only exists to justify a credit bonus. Even today we send a single probe to make multiple passes to map a planet. Sure it takes months or years. But we dont have FSD tech now do we?

 

[da_wae]

Read my exciting CZ analogy from the previous page.

It's not that the FSS stops me doing things, it just makes doing things (subjectively) meaningless because the sequence is (subjectively) wrong.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but fake space exploration in a game has always been, and will forever be meaningless.

 

[Stigbob]

A
Dead
Subject

Its pining for the fjords.

 

[Enderby]

FD are you planning on looking at this again? Be good to know either way.