Station construction in game

[Vasious]

Hello commanders
Your friendly neighborhood Sky Marshal here with this observation. Now that DW2 intense to build a station on route to Beagle point why are we still not able to build stations within the bubble. It seems to me that FDev only want players to construct structures where they deemed fit.
I am of the opinion that proper colonization mechanics would be very good for the game it would allow more player freedom and more emergent gameplay.
So I ask when is FDev going to take the dog leash off the players and allow us to make decisions for ourselves.

Actually, a question for you
"

It seems to me that FDev only want players to construct structures where they deemed fit. "

It is not more, as construction is a manual injection, any construction must be by FDev's hand alone

You write this as if there is a "leash" on the background sim ready to be released and

proper colonization mechanics are there ready to go.
​

​

How would it even work, would it be as simple as if expansion state and if target system uninhabited then add random outpost type +1000 Pop?


Something more complex?


Or Do you want it player/squadron directed

If so how directed?

A player is not a faction nor a squadron a faction

Or is this thread just an indicative expression that you feel colonisation = good and that is it

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

Actually, a question for you
"

It seems to me that FDev only want players to construct structures where they deemed fit. "

It is not more, as construction is a manual injection, any construction must be by FDev's hand alone

You write this as if there is a "leash" on the background sim ready to be released and

proper colonization mechanics are there ready to go.
​

​

How would it even work, would it be as simple as if expansion state and if target system uninhabited then add random outpost type +1000 Pop?


Something more complex?


Or Do you want it player/squadron directed

If so how directed?

A player is not a faction nor a squadron a faction

Or is this thread just an indicative expression that you feel colonisation = good and that is it

Since you asked I will re-clarify the proper colonization Mechanic or “PCM” I would like to see.
1-the Squadron and or Commanders would have to pledge to a minor faction...example the Earth Defense Fleet Squadron is pledged to the Earth Defense Fleet minor faction.
2- A new stat is added to all star systems in the game a”Net Worth” ...examples like a star system with only one star in it is only worth-0 wherein a star system like our home system of Okinura is worth-100 Times that amount based of the population and assets the minor faction holds in that system.
3- When a minor faction goes into the expansion state in create a colonization mission that the pledged Squadron and or Commanders can take.
4- How far and how big of a colony that can be created is determined by the total “Net Worth” of the said minor faction.
5- While the colony is in the building stages of the mission it is open for pirate attack. But once the colony has a foot hold on the system it start to gains a security status.
6- Once the colony mission is completed the star system and the colony is introduced into the greater BGS mechanics and can be captured by another minor faction.
7-Once the minor faction goes back into an investment state new mission are offered to grow the colony or colonize a new system.

 

[Cosmo]

4- How far and how big of a colony that can be created is determined by the total “Net Worth” of the said minor faction.
5- While the colony is in the building stages of the mission it is open for pirate attack. But once the colony has a foot hold on the system it start to gains a security status.
6- Once the colony mission is completed the star system and the colony is introduced into the greater BGS mechanics and can be captured by another minor faction.
7-Once the minor faction goes back into an investment state new mission are offered to grow the colony or colonize a new system.

Yes there should also be visual changes while the colony is built. Such as based on the type and size.

 

[Sapyx]

I am all for anything that expands the number of inhabited systems. As I've pointed out numerous times, FD are adding hundreds of new factions per quarter, while the number of new star systems colonized can usually be counted on one hand. The net result is overcrowding in the bubble, with newly inserted factions inevitably stepping on somebody's toes. Space is big, but it's not infinite, and the inhabited sphere of the Bubble is even less infinite.

I'm not sure Powerplay is the way to implement it, because Powerplay focuses on control of large populations - the exact opposite of expansive colonization, which would create a bunch of new low-population systems the Powers would want nothing to do with. There is already a "shell" of low population star systems about 50 LYs thick, surrounding the Powerplay "bubble", which the Powers can't expand into because they're too sparsely populated. What Powerplay needs is some mechanism whereby a low-population, unprofitable system can have it's population expanded, making expansion into there more profitable.

I would agree with the OP in that there "ought" to be some kind of mechanism for automatic colonization, tied to the BGS. I believe the Devs originally talked about this concept back in the DDF days; it gets a mention in this DDF thread, for example. I suspect the reason it hasn't happened is the difficulty of implementing a method for doing it automatically, without the need for FD manual intervention every time. How is a faction made aware of the existence of a nearby or remote colonizable world, for example?

Logically, "investment" ought to do this: a faction "invests" in colony development, and either (a) brings about an increase in system population, (b) expands and develops a starport under its control, giving it new services, (c) builds a new starport or surface port in the system, or (d) builds a new colony in another star system. Which one it does would depend on the local conditions.

However, I would not wish to see these new colonies be anything "different" from the colonies currently in the game, and would not advocate direct player control of the colonies, or the colonization process. It should be a part of the BGS, available to PMFs and randomly-supported non-PMFs equally.

 

[Hank]

I've been looking for info on how players can get FD to populate a sector of the galaxy and so far, have not found anything of substance.

But, what I'm wondering is if there's a mechanism or process to request from FD an area for population and station building (not player construction).
For example there is a nebula not far from the bubble that is beautiful and densely packed with star systems. The Running Man Nebula is the one I'm interested in populating. There is one very nice asteroid base there with a shipyard and outfitting; they even sell 8 ships including both Kraits. So unless you are into long range passenger missions or mining or donating, there's not much to do there to make money other than surface prospecting or ring mining.

There is one other money making activity there which is exploring. The systems are so tightly packed and numerous you could spend weeks just exploring and mapping planets. I go there about once a month just for the views and picture opportunities.

I would like to see 3 or 5 or 8 more stations built so commerce could begin between the systems there.

I read some of these posts and feel like I'm missing something that everybody else knows. Not unusual for me.

 

[Andovar]

Yeah some derelict and abandoned maybe but again looking at all the One Cmdr Squadrons, which I am not saying one should have, I just imagine all the one Cmdr Star ports started then abandoned.

Well yes, it wouldn't make sense if a single cmdr could start a station build with just credits, the same way they can create a squadron.
Building a station would have to be a huge team effort. In addition to a huge sum of credits, it would also require tens of thousands of multiple commodities delivered to a location to even start the build. (just like how these CG's work) Something that would be next to impossible for a single cmdr to do.

Anyway, to be honest, I'd much rather see them add small, player-owned 'outposts' to the game. No large stations or bases, just a small planetary settlement (or maybe asteroid base) that a player could customize somewhat and call home. No faction allegiance, no commodities market, basically nothing that could impact the BGS. Just a small home base for the player.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I've been looking for info on how players can get FD to populate a sector of the galaxy and so far, have not found anything of substance.

But, what I'm wondering is if there's a mechanism or process to request from FD an area for population and station building (not player construction).

There is no formal repeatable process for doing this. However, looking at the previous times it has been done, there is a pattern.

Basically, you need to catch the imagination of a substantial number of players, get them with you, demonstrate the mass enthusiasm for your cause to Frontier, and then they'll listen.

* The initial starport in the Pleiades - Obsidian Orbital - came about as a result of early player requests.
* Colonia was given its expansion by Frontier because well over 10,000 players - from a wide range of communities, not just the "usual suspects" explorers - went out to help Jaques early on, and there was huge enthusiasm for developing the region.
* The Distant Worlds Expedition has 13,000 commanders on its roster ... around half of those actually participating ... and has just beaten - after only two days - the previous "all week" record tonnage for a mining CG [1].

If you can get that sort of participation, then you're most of the way to convincing Frontier that the Running Man Nebula needs more settlements.

[1] For a quick scale comparison, if DWE had decided to start, not with a mass jump, but with a week-long project to fix the Thargoid-damaged stations "so that there was a bubble to come back to afterwards", then based on their rate of progress with the mining CG, they would have completed fixing all damaged stations by the end of the week. 13,000 commanders may only be 0.3% of total sales, but it's still a lot of people when they all do the same thing.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

5-8 stations forming a mini bubble near the nebula.....ok. There are hundreds of nebulae out there, if you like that one I can guarantee someone will like another one somewhere else and want their own mini bubble there

I'm open to a discussion on expanding the bubble outwards, but freely allowing players to pick and choose where a station is built would be a disaster

Players already complain that they rarely see others even in Open unless they visit a hotspot, allowing starports to be built all over the shop would literally see interaction between Cmdrs dwindle to next to nothing as well as all the exploration issues I've previously mentioned

The bubble is there to keep players not interested in exploration together, that's why the majority of CG's are based there

 

[Ralron]

I think building more station ins the bubble would be stupid and a waste of time..

i would much rather see a *second* or secondary bubbles build across the galaxy!

im surprised they haven putt *powers* and more stations near colonia. thats where the second bubble should have been!

 

[Hank]

5-8 stations forming a mini bubble near the nebula.....ok. There are hundreds of nebulae out there, if you like that one I can guarantee someone will like another one somewhere else and want their own mini bubble there

I'm open to a discussion on expanding the bubble outwards, but freely allowing players to pick and choose where a station is built would be a disaster

Players already complain that they rarely see others even in Open unless they visit a hotspot, allowing starports to be built all over the shop would literally see interaction between Cmdrs dwindle to next to nothing as well as all the exploration issues I've previously mentioned

The bubble is there to keep players not interested in exploration together, that's why the majority of CG's are based there

Thanks Ian and Adam for the input. I've been to a few nebula within a 6k Ly sphere. Trifid is probably the furthest away which I did to unlock Palin. Lagoon, Coalsack, Horsehead, Orion, Witch Head, are the other nebulas I've been to. Imho, Running Man is the most interesting that's less than 1400 Ly from most of the bubble.

I did not suggest one player or small group of players be able to determine where stations are located. I only asked if there was a process and some people here have outlined how past settlements happened. Thank you.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

On a side note I would love to see a station or spaceports under construction by a work force off drones. I would also like to see that under construction assets be attack and piracy be apart of the mechanics.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

No worries Hank, my post wasn't aimed directly at anyone, more addressing the issue of over-colonisation and the problems I thought it would bring in a general way

I suppose from FDevs pov its a balancing act between having too many PMF's in too small an area and overly diluting the active playerbase

 

[V'larr]

Conceptually I would love to have this aspect of the game.

Especially after seeing what they did in the X series.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

On a side note I would love to see a station or spaceports under construction by a work force off drones. I would also like to see that under construction assets be attack and piracy be apart of the mechanics.

The drones would really be off...

 

[Kaocraft]

I think it's kind of funny that the DW2 station construction will involve a CG where you drop off materials at a station which will spontaneously pop into existence at the site of the CG, just so you'll have materials to turn in. So Frontier will add a station in a place that has never had a station before, so that you have somewhere to do a CG to build a station in that same spot.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

I don't even need to read this thread to know the responses will be of the following ilk:

"Players will just build indiscriminately and ruin my private playground. Get out of my backyard."

"Nothing like that is in the game now, so I don't see why it should be added."

"I hate people, thus people shouldn't have anything nice."

Blah Blah Blah Blah.... On and on. The same crabby attitudes that've been poisoning this game for years.

You wanna build it? You don't just fund it. You haul the resources, you guard it while it is being built, you haul the fuel to keep it running once it's up, and you defend it when the 'goids show up 'cause witchspace is a .....

So, why don't you run your lore-accurate calculators on the effort needed to build and sustain a station 20kly out from the bubble, and then decide how many players are going to squat in "Your backyard"?

Edit: Oh, and we couldn't land on planets at one time either. That feature didn't just get turned on like a light switch either did it?

 

[BinakAlgo]

Because they don't "Barry McCoquinner Station" or "Bawls Orbital", or "Lotta ina Platform" floating around out there for one thing. It's bad enough to see a Dolphin named "Dee Snutz" pull up in your face.

But I am certainly not opposed to a Power Play Expansion option to move into an uninhabited system, worked though CG's. The first phase would involve constructing a megaship. The second would involve that said megaship moving into that uninhabited system, to form the base of operations for the construction of an Outpost, which could then serve as the base of operations to construction stations and/or planetary installations.

What this would give us, aside from some ongoing story materials, is also the opportunity for opposing powers to really have something to oppose, and/or the opportunity to seize controls of these new facilities, and all the associated drama.

The "stupid name" phenomenon would be unavoidable indeed, but it seems that's how the modern world works, have you checked up the official names for the geological features discovered in Pluton and Charon? Mordor and Gallifrey Macula, Dorothy Crater (yes, from the Wizard of Oz), Nostromo and Serenity chasmas, Organa and Vader craters, Piccard Mons... For offensive names I guess you could sent a report. Then again, some words just scape translation, there were some who had a problem with "KUK system".

Anyway, I'm not sure if make it CG, unless it is some kind of CG that work only for powers or factions, my objection is that CG are one every week, maybe two if peole are really fast, and that's a very slow rate of expansion because not all weekly CG can be about building stations and all factions would want to be the next. But well, something like that, yes.

 

[DeathFish]

Actually my experience with games that try to be everything wind up doing nothing particularly well. Just look at our multi role ships here. Try to equip one to do everything and you’ll wind up doing nothing (except maybe rebuying often).

But specialize one and you wind up with a great ship. Why has the Python reigned king of multi role for so long? Why is the Krait II so up and coming? Because they both absolutely great at being absolutely good at any one thing at a time.

....

Compare a horse to a motorcycle. If the horse doesn’t go, it’s either tied to something, stuck to something or dead. If the motorcycle doesn’t go, it could take a mechanic a week or more just to figure out why.

Elite is already complex enough - just look at the bugs we’ve had since 1.0 that still pop up.

If a horse don’t go, and it is untied and unstuck, you get in specialist horse vet who makes you transport said horse across half the country for ludicrously expensive scan, and three days observation, at the end of which neither of you are any the wiser, but the vet is much richer, and you wish you had bought a bike instead, cos the sods are such simple things compared to any animal worthy of the name horse. Fixing horses requires timescales measured in months, the patience of Job, a philosophical nature and ownership of an oil well that could be used to fill up the bike. Even spotting that horses aren’t right takes years of experience (-:

Otherwise you are 110% correct, agree with every word of it (-:

 

[DeathFish]

Almonds and beans do not and cannot produce milk. They are not mammals. What they produce is a lie.

Not according to my materials trader. 6 almonds = 1 milk.

 

[DeathFish]

And when stations start popping up all over the galaxy like zits on a teenagers face Elite instantly loses it's sense of scale and danger for explorers

"The black" will no longer exist. DW2 whilst larger in numbers than DW1 is already a pale imitation of thar event due to the inclusion of engineering and hull repair limpets . Crossing the Rift "used' to be a challenge, now it is possible in any ingame ship

The Codex balances it by offering a more feasable way of finding new phenomena en route, but the journey itself is already DW1 Lite and adding stations here, there and everywhere would be the equivalent of checkpoints every few thousand LY

True, but bearing in mind there are 400 billion star systems out there (or whatever, I haven’t had time to count every one), isn’t it likely to take some time for the universe to lose its sense of scale? Even if 1000 new stations were brought online every week, it would take nearly 2000 years to colonise another 1% of the Elite galaxy, so I reckon you can relax on that score.