If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.

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It was not then, is not now, nor will it ever be an oversight.

o·ver·sight
/ˈōvərˌsīt/
noun


  1. 1.
    an unintentional failure to notice or do something.


    The only thing anyone "failed" to do was to take bad advice from the forum. The FSS was totally intentional, as was the removal of the ADS.

IndigoWyrd, you stated earlier in this thread that you were just here for the salt. Nothing you say is relevant because it cannot be contextualised into a constructive argument. You are deliberately misinterpreting rather than simply misunderstanding (as Mooka appears to be for example).

I do appreciate your bumping the thread however.
 
And again and again and again...:rolleyes:[haha][haha][haha]:rolleyes:
Did I ever mention the ADS ????
No? Then why do you quote me ?
Enjoy your allmighty FSS and forget about me, please.

No, I mentioned the ADS, as a counter to the notion "FSS gameplay is a disgusting boil right on the face of the superb Stellar Forge." I don't think the FSS is perfect, far from it, but hardly a boil.

I can't forget about you, it's the avatar, it bugs me too much. I watched Dune (and Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind) back in the theater when it came out (both in one day) but that little girl was so creepy. :O:O:eek::O:O She's grown up now, I remember her on Law & Order.
 

Scytale

Banned
Mind if I explain, Scytale?

...snip...

^^^ Just... wow !

No, I mentioned the ADS, as a counter to the notion "FSS gameplay is a disgusting boil right on the face of the superb Stellar Forge." I don't think the FSS is perfect, far from it, but hardly a boil.

I can't forget about you, it's the avatar, it bugs me too much. I watched Dune (and Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind) back in the theater when it came out (both in one day) but that little girl was so creepy. :O:O:eek::O:O She's grown up now, I remember her on Law & Order.

Ok, ok, ok Ma'am... The ADS is a boil and the FSS just a purulent furuncle. Let's say !
RP>
St Alia of The Knife, our holy Godmother and Prophet's aunt, has never really been a "little girl".
Seeing her so, makes understandable you find her creepy <RP ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5P29oqdX0
 
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Did I speak of the "old way" ?
Is scanning the system at a standstill and discovering quite everything, by playing a stupid minigame, "exploring" ? Without even moving?
I understand you can't understand. You simply can't.

Yes he can. And he does. He just doesn't happen to agree with you. Is flying 200k to a planet to 'discover' it good gameplay? One could just as well call that stupid.
There is no absolute truth here. It's all just opinion. You don't like it, he does. Neither of you are 'right'. You either like it or you don't.

FD came to the forums over two months ago, and said they knew some people dont like the ADS being removed, that they gave it some thought and decided to remove it anyway. They couldnt have been any clearer about this. They literally said they knew some were unhappy about it, they literally said they were going to do it anyway. The issue isn't 'technically still open', and it hasnt been open for months.

I think a lot of people don't get this or didn't keep track of what FDev communicated. This wasn't some kind of rewrite that got dumped on us and them saying "let's see how this works out".
They made it very clear at the beta launch they looked at the different categories of explorers, and designed a system that would be in line with how most of the explorers go about it, and at the same time even stated that there probably would be some people that didn't like it.
They actually took the time to investigate how the majority of explorers behave, and based the whole re-design on that data.

You hear a lot about how they don't look at what the players want, but in this case, they actually did. And not by some poll or something, no, by actually diving into the data.
In short, they did everything they could to make sure the redesign of exploration would please the majority of the explorers.

That being said, I wouldn't be against a honk bringing up the systems bodies as 'dark' objects. Fine by me.
It's just that I can't stand the entilement some people show here.
Yeah you paid for a game, but from the get-go they made it clear it was their vision. Now you can suggest a lot of improvements, or say you don't agree, but you're not entitled to anything. Nothing whatsoever.
 
Mind if I explain, Scytale?

If I can just give you a quick run through...

There's a variety of issues at play, and they're all getting tied in together.

Firstly, what you need to know is that bodies only appear after the honk if they've previously been discovered (as in been Level 2 or Level 3 scanned and had the data handed in to UC) by another cmdr.

What that means is that for bodies or systems which have not previously been discovered, the only way to find the bodies is via the FSS.
Unless you just look out your canopy, eyeball yourself a body and fly towards it.

Now, the second point is that the FSS effectively takes you out of the cockpit into another view, and as above that becomes unavoidable.
It does take you to another view, but that view could very well be on a display that drops down in front of you - think periscope, that you look into - we don't know because we don't really need to. Truth be told, it's not unlike switching to Turret mode in an SRV.

So here's the problem(s):

- For some exploration is about flying their ship - they can't explore undiscovered systems that way any more
See above, they can, they just don't get their hands held (aka no Undiscovered body to lock onto, because it hasn't been discovered, thus they know not that it is, let alone where it is.).

- Some people simply really don't like the FSS interface - again they can't avoid it for undiscovered systems (or bodies)
Not liking the interface is a different matter than not liking the FSS. I wouldn't mind a different overlay myself, but I'm not throwing out the baby with the bathwater either.

- For others exploration is primarily about finding unique system configurations (say like 5 level nested orbits), or peculiar/unusual planetary situations (binaries in very close/fast orbits) and things like that - previously these could be identified relatively quickly by looking at the system map after the honk. As per above though, that's not possible for undiscovered systems and people have to scan the system via the FSS before they can see the system map.
I'll give you that. It's not instant any more. It also doesn't take very long at all. Perhaps 1-2 minutes at most. Wah, my instant gratification...
The primary issue here is that because these people are looking for things which are very very rare, they are looking to optimise the search, which means taking the minimum time in what to them are non-interesting systems - having to fully scan the system via FSS before viewing the sysmap can mean they're held back significantly.
It's also not a race. I get it in the case of Commander Borrowed Time, who is actually 3 weeks past the date the doctors gave him. To that guy, every second does matter - shouldn't you be spending it doing something other than playing a video game? But for the rest of us... you can afford a few extra seconds per system, don't be temporally cheap.

And in addition, for some it's a combination of the above.

Anyway, I hope that all makes sense - could you let me know either way?

(Also, for everyone else, if I've missed anything significant, please chip in.)

A few significant things, commentary added. So far there's been exactly one person who's brought something resembling a reasonable position to this discussion -- and it's not really been about the FSS itself, but rather in the avalanche of data it provides - and that I can honestly say I do at least understand. I don't mind it, in fact, I like the whole "combined sensor", "do it right, do it once" methodology, but at least I get where this fellow is coming from - he doesn't want to be so efficient, in fact, he enjoyed inefficiency, and that's ok too. Some people like to carry bricks one at a time, others like to put them in carts and move them all at once. That's fine.

The other two major holdovers have really yet to present anything to support the noise they make. One misuses words to sound like they know something they can't, the other talks around in circles and somehow doesn't get dizzy.
 
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Unless you just look out your canopy, eyeball yourself a body and fly towards it.

It does take you to another view, but that view could very well be on a display that drops down in front of you - think periscope, that you look into - we don't know because we don't really need to. Truth be told, it's not unlike switching to Turret mode in an SRV.

See above, they can, they just don't get their hands held (aka no Undiscovered body to lock onto, because it hasn't been discovered, thus they know not that it is, let alone where it is.).

Not liking the interface is a different matter than not liking the FSS. I wouldn't mind a different overlay myself, but I'm not throwing out the baby with the bathwater either.

I'll give you that. It's not instant any more. It also doesn't take very long at all. Perhaps 1-2 minutes at most. Wah, my instant gratification... It's also not a race. I get it in the case of Commander Borrowed Time, who is actually 3 weeks past the date the doctors gave him. To that guy, every second does matter - shouldn't you be spending it doing something other than playing a video game? But for the rest of us... you can afford a few extra seconds per system, don't be temporally cheap.



A few significant things, commentary added. So far there's been exactly one person who's brought something resembling a reasonable position to this discussion -- and it's not really been about the FSS itself, but rather in the avalanche of data it provides - and that I can honestly say I do at least understand. I don't mind it, in fact, I like the whole "combined sensor", "do it right, do it once" methodology, but at least I get where this fellow is coming from - he doesn't want to be so efficient, in fact, he enjoyed inefficiency, and that's ok too. Some people like to carry bricks one at a time, others like to put them in carts and move them all at once. That's fine.

The other two major holdovers have really yet to present anything to support the noise they make. One misuses words to sound like they know something they can't, the other talks around in circles and somehow doesn't get dizzy.

But it's still crap.
 
Wow the new FSS is fantastic I got lots of lovely G5 mats and tasty bounties with it today, and the best bit is I had fun 10/10 well done FDEV you knocked it out of the park [money][up].
 
But only half the crap the ADS was.

I think we need to define crap as an SI unit first before we get into a contest of which is crappier. Is one unit of crap the same everywhere and to everybody? Is it, say, a volume, mass or distance measurement? A combination?

:D S
 
I think we need to define crap as an SI unit first before we get into a contest of which is crappier. Is one unit of crap the same everywhere and to everybody? Is it, say, a volume, mass or distance measurement? A combination?

:D S

A standard transport-ton, including packaging. Check INARA for going rates though.
 
If I can just give you a quick run through...

There's a variety of issues at play, and they're all getting tied in together.

Firstly, what you need to know is that bodies only appear after the honk if they've previously been discovered (as in been Level 2 or Level 3 scanned and had the data handed in to UC) by another cmdr.

What that means is that for bodies or systems which have not previously been discovered, the only way to find the bodies is via the FSS.

Now, the second point is that the FSS effectively takes you out of the cockpit into another view, and as above that becomes unavoidable.

So here's the problem(s):

- For some exploration is about flying their ship - they can't explore undiscovered systems that way any more

- Some people simply really don't like the FSS interface - again they can't avoid it for undiscovered systems (or bodies)

- For others exploration is primarily about finding unique system configurations (say like 5 level nested orbits), or peculiar/unusual planetary situations (binaries in very close/fast orbits) and things like that - previously these could be identified relatively quickly by looking at the system map after the honk. As per above though, that's not possible for undiscovered systems and people have to scan the system via the FSS before they can see the system map. The primary issue here is that because these people are looking for things which are very very rare, they are looking to optimise the search, which means taking the minimum time in what to them are non-interesting systems - having to fully scan the system via FSS before viewing the sysmap can mean they're held back significantly.

And in addition, for some it's a combination of the above.

Anyway, I hope that all makes sense - could you let me know either way?

(Also, for everyone else, if I've missed anything significant, please chip in.)

The points you raised could, mostly, be alleviated by applying the information from the FSS honk to the system map and orrery. Any further use of the FSS would fill in the system map and orrery. I'm at work or I'd try to create some mock-ups of what I can imagine but if we look at the FSS as an information gathering device, it obviously knows a bit about the system from the initial honk. Tuning refines that data and zooming in to a body discovers the body, there are different levels of zoom that provide different information. For instance zooming in just a little can show that there are multiple bodies in an orbital configuration before zooming into a specific body.

If a player used the FSS and then looked at the system map, just what information is provided? I would say that we know how many bodies there are, we know the number of stars and their positions. We know the total number of bodies, their general direction relative to each star, a general distribution of the types of bodies and, based on how the FSS must work, an approximate idea of the mass of each body. This kind of data could be used to populate the system map, not a total giveaway of information, but enough information for players to still feel like they are exploring and certainly a step up from using parallax to discover.
 

Scytale

Banned
I think we need to define crap as an SI unit first before we get into a contest of which is crappier. Is one unit of crap the same everywhere and to everybody? Is it, say, a volume, mass or distance measurement? A combination?

:D S
Judge by yourself:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...an-old-radio?p=7365514&viewfull=1#post7365514

But only half the crap the ADS was.

c0yKNXj.jpg

I had fun 10/10 .

Wanna have fun 100/10 ?
Try this instead !
f22uRB9.png
 
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But only half the crap the ADS was.

Nobody can actually say why it's crap either which I find amusing. Some just come out with other names like childish, even though there is nothing childish about it.

Or it's a 2D mini game or an arcade game. Well it looks nothing like any arcade game I have ever played so I can diregard that, and what is wrong with a 2D mini game, not that the whole thing is actully is 2D anyway.

If they can give some good reasons why they think this way I will be inclined to listen, but nobody so far cannot. And because of that I pretty much disregard anything they say as to me it looks like they don't want to like it, not because it's rubbish (which it obviously isn't).
 
Wow the new FSS is fantastic I got lots of lovely G5 mats and tasty bounties with it today, and the best bit is I had fun 10/10 well done FDEV you knocked it out of the park [money][up].

Of course. Its for the rewards obsessed only.

You're also doing it wrong.. if you drop into a nav beacon every single signal source is resolved without needing to use the fss at all..
 
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Just replying quickly to acknowledge, and snipping as it's not really a discussion with me as such. I wasn't giving my perspective on things, or what I would consider to be an overall objective assessment of things with points and counterpoint, rather I was just attempting to summarise some other peoples perspectives in a way that someone else would be able to readily follow rather than it having to go through another long drawn out argument/discussion which wasn't going to be good for anyone involved.

And that's me more or less done for the night! :)
 
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