Engineering is even worst than I thought

[House0fDerp]

An engineered ship is more fun to fly no need to G5 anything.

But being unnecessary is in no way a reason to excuse a bad process when the results are beneficial.

Not that I agree that the engineers are particularly bad at this point in time, just that the question of "need" is pointless.

Engineers didn't unbalance anything, harmless sidey v ganker wing was no different before.

Engineered vs unengineered turned already unfavorable situations into even more unfavorable ones.

I'm more than happy to fly to visit the engineers - after all, this is a game about flying your spaceship.

It's like people seem to be unable to understand that some people have preferences on what they do while flying their ships, or that they could easily visit the engineers without the system of engineering mandating they do so.

This is a game about flying a space ship from a to b. If you don't like that bit, you're out of luck.

Not liking being told exactly what to do by the game for a specific process isn't the same as not wanting to do anything in the game. Also I've spent more time flying from A, making explosions and going back to A while never ending up at B. So there's that.

 

[Stigbob]

But being unnecessary is in no way a reason to excuse a bad process when the results are beneficial.

Not that I agree that the engineers are particularly bad at this point in time, just that the question of "need" is pointless.

I don't think its a bad process, I think its the games single player campaign and cleverly forces you to try different stuff. Its only perceived as bad by the people who grind instead of playing at it. For example shifting cigars do it in a combat ship use them as a pirate magnet, no need to overfocus on the end.

Engineered vs unengineered turned already unfavorable situations into even more unfavorable ones.

You can engineer for defense and disengagement since that kept pace with offensive capabilities, or even a speed build which are absolutely untouchable unless you choose to deliberately hang around.

 

[House0fDerp]

I don't think its a bad process, I think its the games single player campaign and cleverly forces you to try different stuff. Its only perceived as bad by the people who grind instead of playing at it.

Because the process often tells you do do things you already know long before the end that you have no interest in doing. Were it not for grinding I'd still never have Lei Cheung unlocked. Mining was slightly better, but hauling is the pits.

For example shifting cigars do it in a combat ship use them as a pirate magnet

Which is terrible in comparison to both shipping and combat options for me. Sitting around waiting for interdictions that usually don't happen when I could be in a CZ or RES instead isn't my idea of a good time.

You can engineer for defense and disengagement since that kept pace with offensive capabilities, or even a speed build which are absolutely untouchable unless you choose to deliberately hang around.

So my statement is correct, the imbalance existing between ships was expanded and is countered by more engineering, notwithstanding that gankers can mod for all of the same and the ability to hinder escape.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

I've been playing since about mid-2015 on the Xbox but switch to PC around November 2015 and I never had a bigger ship than the Cobra MK IV and never touched engineering until after 3.3 dropped. I finally worked up the effort to get enough credits to afford a bigger ship and bought the Krait MK II.

My opinion on engineering today is that it's fine although it could use some improvements, which is a topic for another time. It's hardly a grind as it hasn't taken long to unlock Farseer, McQuinn, and Martuuk over a single weekend and I've been able to upgrade a variety of items on both my Cobra MK III and my Krait MK II. I'm not that interested in getting everything upgraded to grade 5 in a week or two, I'm happy with a grade 3 on some items. I have no interest in using pinned blueprints, I'd rather take the journey to visit them.

In just a few weeks I've gotten grade 4 access on Farseer and Martuuk and grade 3 access on McQuinn. I've upgraded my FSD, power plant, thrusters, shield generator, shield boosters and multicannons. It hasn't felt grindy, more like I'm purchasing the upgrades, just with an alternate currency, some of which I might not always be carrying.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

There was. You're probably playing this game not so long.



Exaggerated example is not an argument. You're wrong.

I can clearly say, that it was possible to kill a CMDR on a Python - best combat ship in the game - on a Viper. Now it's not, due to the mindless stacking gameplay and 101 other causes I've described in threads related to combat. Engineering and stacking combo excludes skill element from combat almost completely.

You are simply not being honest.
You can even kill them in a Sidewinder.
This was posted today:

Here is a question to all my PvE friends:

I pulled a Deadly Python in shinrarta 2 nights ago and blew him up. He shot back and had crimes on. I was in a Grade 2 engineered Sidewinder with 2 enforcers and 550 hull.

Was i the griefer there?

Python had a full complement of weapons, shields and armor, and the cops showed up very quickly (High Security)

Ftr, the Python also isn't the "best combat ship in the game" by any stretch.

 

[aRJay]

There was. You're probably playing this game not so long.



Exaggerated example is not an argument. You're wrong.

I can clearly say, that it was possible to kill a CMDR on a Python - best combat ship in the game - on a Viper. Now it's not, due to the mindless stacking gameplay and 101 other causes I've described in threads related to combat. Engineering and stacking combo excludes skill element from combat almost completely.

Snip.

 

[Spacecat]

You can ignore all the Engineers in Colonia, just do the ones in the bubble. And once you pin a blueprint you should be able to upgrade it at any station remotely, except specials, which I rarely bother with. Also, use mat traders.

 

[EternalSorrow]

You are simply not being honest.
You can even kill them in a Sidewinder.
This was posted today:





Ftr, the Python also isn't the "best combat ship in the game" by any stretch.

It was the best ship in the post-release times. My flaw, haven't noted that.

I'd like to see how did you do that, because sounds like you've found a player which doesn't even know what the FA is, and didn't knew about vertical thrusters. Smart Python cannot let the Sidewinder to destroy himself in any way.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

It was in the post-release times. My flaw, haven't noted that.

I'd like to see how did you do that, because sounds like you've found a player which doesn't even know what the FA is, and didn't knew about vertical thrusters.

I think you're not paying attention.
That wasn't my kill.

To be fair to the Python pilot, Replicant is very experienced.

But you are stating things as currently factual that simply are not.

So perhaps you'll reconsider some of your positions now?

 

[EternalSorrow]

I think you're not paying attention.
That wasn't my kill.

To be fair to the Python pilot, Replicant is very experienced.

But you are stating things as currently factual that simply are not.

So perhaps you'll reconsider some of your positions now?

Again.

The game wass more skill-dependent --> there was a possibility to destroy a really powerful ship (Python in pre SCBs times, that was my example) on the much less powerful by utilizing it's maneuverability

The game is less skill dependent now --> there are drastically less chances to win the fight against superior enemy due to the higher difference in absolute numbers (damage, hp, etc)

While saying "destroy" I mean "destroy without external help, in duel" .

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Again.

The game wass more skill-dependent --> there was a possibility to destroy a really powerful ship (Python in pre SCBs times, that was my example) on the much less powerful by utilizing it's maneuverability

The game is less skill dependent now --> there are drastically less chances to win the fight against superior enemy due to the higher difference in absolute numbers (damage, hp, etc)

While saying "destroy" I mean "destroy without external help, in duel" .

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I gave you an example of how you are factually incorrect, and you won't modify your position?

It seems like you don't really have an understanding about the current game mechanics, with regards to combat.

The Python got nerfed years ago, for example.
Killing bigger ships is still very possible.

Defense for ships has outpaced the damage they might face.

 

[EternalSorrow]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I gave you an example of how you are factually incorrect, and you won't modify your position?

It seems like you don't really have an understanding about the current game mechanics, with regards to combat.

The Python got nerfed years ago, for example.
Killing bigger ships is still very possible.

You are disproving details in my posts, but saying nothing about the main point.

I have the understanding. And I've noticed 3 times or more, that Python was a superior combat ship. It was long ago, but I'm comparing release times and current - take any meta ship, like FDL or Mamba.

Killing superior enemy is still possible, of course. But skill superiority influences the combat result not even close to how it was before, due to the inflated HP pool and balance mess.

Defense for ships has outpaced the damage they might face.

Yes, and that's the main cause of the skill demand drop in the game. My long read about how TTK influences the skill-dependency and balance issues perception in game was exactly about that.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

You are disproving details in my posts, but saying nothing about the main point.

I have the understanding. And I've noticed 3 times or more, that Python was a superior combat ship. It was long ago, but I'm comparing release times and current - take any meta ship, like FDL or Mamba.

Killing superior enemy is still possible, of course. But skill superiority influences the combat result not even close to how it was before, due to the inflated HP pool and balance mess.

But you're wrong about things.
That means your conclusions are suspect.

You can't build on that foundation.

Yes, and that's the main cause of the skill demand drop in the game. My long read about how TTK influences the skill-dependency and balance issues perception in game was exactly about that.

I don't think the skill has changed, you just need more stamina.
If anything you need to know more now.
So building ships is more skill oriented now, even if it's easier to escape.

 

[EternalSorrow]

But you're wrong about things.
That means your conclusions are suspect.

You can't build on that foundation.






I don't think the skill has changed, you just need more stamina.
If anything you need to know more now.
So building ships is more skill oriented now, even if it's easier to escape.

Where am I wrong? I've proven my position with the common practice example in the industry, and with numbers. And I've seen no one proof from you.

Ship building is not skill-dependent, because optimal build is very transparent - dirty engines, the most durable shields and weapons on your taste. The only place to apply your building skills is EPT-running combat crafts, but they are still inferior to the mediums and their main advantage is only a disengaging on demand.

 

[NeilF]

2. I went to pin some blueprints and was shocked to find that I can only pin one blueprint per engineer. Why?

3. I pinned a blueprint, gathered some materials, then did grade 1 and was shocked that it didn't unlock grade 2. I have to go to the engineer to unlock grades.

Pure lazy needless grindy busy work...

I had hope with Engineering V2 at least you'd be able to engineer with any unlocked engineer at any (high tech?) station? ie: Do away with the needless blueprint nonsense... So CMDRs could engineer often and easily at any station as they collected materials... But nope...

TBH, the Engineers killed the game for me a bit with its lazy grind mentality gameplay. And worse still, I see the outcome of the improved combat performance of ships as having broken the game (PvP and PvE) with poor balance.