The Problem with Game Balance

Do any of these pictures express your view of E: D's balance? Specifically, the balance between PvE'ers and PvP'ers, not the CMDR-NPC balance (although there is a knock on effect here too), or PvP-PvP ship balance.

A) - seesaw.jpg B) - seesaw1.JPG C) - see3.jpg



FDev decided early on that E: D would be a game of two halves. Those that wanted to engage in digitally simulated combat, could. While those that didn't want to, wouldn't have to. This choice seemingly caters to a wide range of playstyles, while leaving every door open for everyone to experience everything the game has to offer. A smart move... except instead of an open and accessible platform, what we have is two very strident camps that only engage in activities outside of their preferred sphere, in order to achieve an objective that was rendered otherwise meaningless for a given player by the separation, not inclusion, of playstyles. FDev's decision broke the game in a number of ways...

Firstly, my own personal bug-bear comes in two parts...

1) Protected BGS/PP manipulation leaves some 'Open Only' CMDRs (amongst whom I include myself) at a higher risk than others whilst being engaged in 'shaping the galaxy' and the narrative.

This is a choice made by CMDRs, as no doubt will be pointed out. The point though, is that this isn't balanced gameplay. It is unbalanced by design, deliberately broken by its creators and a skewed risk:reward ratio is the result.

2) PvP'ers can creep around after a particularly vicious crime spree, without the danger of becoming the content of the 'emergent' gameplay that they, we, praise so highly.

Contextual PvP and effective C&P are rendered meaningless in this situation. Regardless of the local regime, one can murder and pirate without recourse to 'justice' for the victim. Whilst at their most vulnerable, floating around in T9's grinding CR, Naval Rank and Engineer Mats, 'Wanted' CMDR's are immune to justice.

Whilst the current state of affairs continues, the only effective Law & Order policy for those CMDRs would be an NPC force so powerful that all crimes are in effect punished immediately and with a rebuy screen. This isn't hyperbole, I'd argue its not much of an exaggeration at all. You can't balance a broken scale.



Secondly and no less importantly, PvE'ers run into several problems, including but not limited to....

A desire to avoid PvP related ship-building optimisations (for whatever reason) leaves them with a choice of playing alone or with a limited number of trusted invitees (a flawed system in itself as we've seen), cut off from the rest of even their own PvE community. The only alternative to this is to play in Open and to be so far outmatched by their PvP'ing counterparts that progress of any kind becomes impossible.

Let me state this: as a PvP'er who only plays in Open (exceptions for when I find an NPC hogging my docking bay) as a Pirate, and who engages in 'full-risk' BGS and PP interaction, I believe both sides of these issues are equally deserving of attention. Regardless of your playstyle or the epithets used to describe it (psychopath/carebear), your playstyle is not wrong. This is not your fault!

What I will suggest is your fault however, are the requests for FDev to fix C&P, to rebalance Engineers or to Make Exploration Great Again!, or any other 'balancing' quest.

FDev can't do these things because FDev decided that the root cause of most of this game's problems, would be it's main selling point, "your way".

The only 'fix' possible for E: D's most glaring issues is to repackage the game as two games. This could be done in one of the upcoming paid updates.
The fix is not an OpenOnlyPowerPlay mode, this is a full-fat & fully-featured PvPMode, next to a totally separate full-fat & fully-featured PvEMode.

What we are looking for, is something more like this:

swings.jpg


Credits: Pictures were taken from the web, and relevant credit should go to their respective rights holders. Google Image search will tell who that is, I've no idea and even less interest. I'm responsible solely for the addition of text, created at great expense using MS Paint's 'Text' feature. Superb, isn't it?
 
Last edited:
How do you balance a game where PVE affects are done through the movement of thousands of PVE trophies and PVP players might engage with a real player, for real game purposes, just a handful of times....

The PVP in this game is gratuitous...without any input into the game itself...and is designed as such. If Fdev wants to make this game PVE only and make a second unrelated game PVP only...there are no problems...except they already have....and no one plays it...
 
If I had to pin point three things about PvP and PvE that damaged/broke balance?:-

Fixed vs Gimbled
This split in weapons immediately created a rod for FD's back to constantly balance, and they've never been able to do it IMHO.

What should have happened? A single unified beam weapon approach of gimbled, where:-
  • Keeping a target directly ahead (or in the same position) means more damaged is inflicted. The weapon having to gimble to more of an angle, or compensate all over the place, will do less damage.
  • Chaff would mean the weapon cannot gimble and will only be able shoot directly ahead(ish).
  • Even more skill/depth could be added by an option to fix directly ahead, adding even a touch more damage/power.
Engineers
The weapon based upgrades were cheap gameplay mechanics causing a needless raising of the performance bar simply at the expense of giving supposed worth to all too often limp pointless gameplay loops.

It's left the game woefully unbalanced, especially for fully engineered CMDRs vs NPCs and un-engineered CMDRs.

Ultimately: NPCs vs CMDRs
In an ideal world, in the right circumstances NPCs should almost be indistinguishable from CMDRs. Thus defending yourself from a good NPC and another CMDR should be a similar hurdle. At the moment a typical PvP CMDR will prove to be a far far more dangerous foe than any NPC.
 
Last edited:
This is what happens when its possible to illegally purchase credits with cash

What? That's gong to need some explanation.

As for OP, I'm with you on C&P, but the scary part is Frontier just revamped it in Beyond, so I doubt they're interested in doing it again.

I'm absolutely opposed to rebalancing engineering in relation to non-engineered ships, but wouldn't be opposed to some tweeks within engineering. The game progressed with new content, those who choose not to advance should not limit those who do.

I'm also really hesitant to get behind any balancing crusades, as I don't think good games require everything to be balanced, and have actually seen very fun games go downhill fast as everything was homogenized in the name of balance.

If something's broken, fix it, but don't assume it's broken because it is not balanced. I'm fine with a combat ship destroying a ship built with no consideration to combat survival, for instance.

As for modes, they made a game where everyone regardless of mode or platform influence the same universe. Buyer beware. It is core to the game, and I do not see a reason to change anything in the name of fairness or balance. It's a representation of a massive society spread across a galaxy, there will be influences out of your control, and I'm fine with that.
 
Last edited:
This is what happens when its possible to illegally purchase credits with cash

I doubt that this is a Major Problem, since Money making in Elite is way too easy. It was easy from the beginning, and it has become even more easy during the 4 years of being released.

1 Billion per day is definetely way too easy.
 
The entire OP requires that the reader believe that Solo/Private Group modes owes something to open mode. If anyone truly believes there is an advantage in using one mode over another, those players are perfectly capable of accessing what ever perceived advantage they see. Equal access ensures perfect balance between the modes.

There is no logic that requires players to live up to any other player's choices. Because some players have decided to only play in open, does not mean that other players should be required to follow suit. I believe we are all on that swing set, together, already. It's just that some players can't get beyond the fact that some players choose a blue seated swing over a red one.
 
It would be cool if the engineers closed up shop (yay no more mats). As long as I get to keep my toys, that stinks for you noob.
 
The gap between the weakest and strongest ship is too big to allow open PvP to be anything other than lop sided. Engineers made it worse, because the time limited player is not going to engineer. The answer for me is that if you are aligned with a power in a power play system you have to fly a powers designated ship and that is a stock ship and you are automatically in open in those systems. All FD need to do is allocate ships to powers and balance those ships so that the combat is balanced. Ship insurance is paid by the power.

Yes, it's a contrived solution, but you have balanced PvP and you also have PP as I think it was intended.

I am not a great fan of making PP open, because it takes away functionality from a sub set of players, but flying stock ships and free ship insurance would level the playing field.
 
The gap between the weakest and strongest ship is too big to allow open PvP to be anything other than lop sided. Engineers made it worse, because the time limited player is not going to engineer. The answer for me is that if you are aligned with a power in a power play system you have to fly a powers designated ship and that is a stock ship and you are automatically in open in those systems. All FD need to do is allocate ships to powers and balance those ships so that the combat is balanced. Ship insurance is paid by the power.

Yes, it's a contrived solution, but you have balanced PvP and you also have PP as I think it was intended.

I am not a great fan of making PP open, because it takes away functionality from a sub set of players, but flying stock ships and free ship insurance would level the playing field.

Isnt that just like life?
 
Do any of these pictures express your view of E: D's balance? Specifically, the balance between PvE'ers and PvP'ers, not the CMDR-NPC balance (although there is a knock on effect here too), or PvP-PvP ship balance.

A) - B) - C) -

C! It's C! And then the two balls merrily roll apart, never to come close again! Yay!
Also, I think one of the balls should build a wall, and have the other one pay for it.
 
Back
Top Bottom