PvP Distant Worlds? More like Distant Jerks

[Wargfoot]

I DO agree about the false dichotomy.

PVP requires a heavy PVE investment.

In years of observing games I've noticed that this is where much of the understanding/game design falls apart.

When everyone is new to a game (or when the game first launches) there are no highly skilled, pimped out PKS running around blowing things up. Everyone is starting out on a level playing field. However, six months later being new to the game can be an entirely different thing as now the game has bored, highly skilled, wealthy players hunting in the very same starter zones that those vets were in just a few months before. I've yet to see a game handle this sort of interaction (open pvp in a game with significant progression) in a seamless way. The current solution, that being solo/group play, is a good option but somehow less satisfying than the mythical, heretofore undiscovered, solution to this problem.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

In years of observing games I've noticed that this is where much of the understanding/game design falls apart.

When everyone is new to a game (or when the game first launches) there are no highly skilled, pimped out PKS running around blowing things up. Everyone is starting out on a level playing field. However, six months later being new to the game can be an entirely different thing as now the game has bored, highly skilled, wealthy players hunting in the very same starter zones that those vets were in just a few months before. I've yet to see a game handle this sort of interaction (open pvp in a game with significant progression) in a seamless way. The current solution, that being solo/group play, is a good option but somehow less satisfying than the mythical, heretofore undiscovered, solution to this problem.

I don't think you've made a case that there is indeed a problem, with the status quo.

The quote in my sig is relevant.

 

[Wargfoot]

I don't think you've made a case that there is indeed a problem, with the status quo.

The quote in my sig is relevant.

There isn't a problem in ED because of the solo and group play option.
Those are basically galaxy wide safe zones.

If you don't think substantive progression (players can get really strong compared to new players) mixed with open world PvP isn't an issue in gaming then I'd invite you to head over to MMORPG.com and discuss it there. The number of failing titles, abandoned games, or games with little or no player base that have attempted just that formula is mind-numbing. Literally billions of dollars have been thrown at getting that formula to work with no real end in site. Mixing substantive progression with new players isn't an issue in ED because it can be avoided - just because ED is a successful title doesn't mean the open world PvP model is working, it only appears to work here because of the solo/group play.

The aggressive PvP crowd likes to pretend that model works.
They're hard pressed to find examples where it does work.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

Indeed they have.

Come and stick with me, or pilots like me and we'll teach/help/show you how to thwart these people using skills already in the game. With practice, no matter what you're flying, you'll be safe from any ganker.

It'll be a beautiful adventure.

Now that is what I mean by dignity and grace.
You are clearly a gentleman and I have added you to my list of those here I respect.
07 CMDR, it would be an honor.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

Now that is what I mean by dignity and grace.
You are clearly a gentleman and I have added you to my list of those here I respect.
07 CMDR, it would be an honor.

^This

I was about to write that I had hoped to find more of that in ED, but honestly I've found it in abundance.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Indeed they have.

Come and stick with me, or pilots like me and we'll teach/help/show you how to thwart these people using skills already in the game. With practice, no matter what you're flying, you'll be safe from any ganker.

It'll be a beautiful adventure.

Thats not my playstyle

Dont tell me how to play my game

 

[Zeeman]

This is utter nonsense.

The 'Dangerous' part of the games title is a reference to the decision of the Pilots Federation to open up its membership to pilots who have reached the rank of 'Dangerous' instead of keeping it to those who were 'Elite'.

If you want to justify your actions do at least try to make it sound as if you know what you are talking about instead of spouting anything that flashes into your mind. It might make your attempts at justification more believable.

Eh? Membership is open to those all the way down to Harmless. In fact, getting the Harmless rank is the first step in your Pilots Federation journey.

Z...

 

[Shinji Ikari]

As usual I'm on my phone, 4 miles offshore, using the mobile version of the forum, so no, I'm not wasting data pointing to a post that's probably 5 or 6 pages back, to

As usual I'm on my phone, 4 miles offshore, using the mobile version of the forum, so no, I'm not wasting data pointing to a post that's probably 5 or 6 pages back, to

As usual I'm on my phone, 4 miles offshore, using the mobile version of the forum, so no, I'm not wasting data pointing to a post that's probably 5 or 6 pages back, to

As usual I'm on my phone, 4 miles offshore, using the mobile version of the forum, so no, I'm not wasting data pointing to a post that's probably 5 or 6 pages back, to
But it's the last conversation we had in this thread.

How much data can the forums use?

 

[Goose4291]

How much data can the forums use?

Surprisingly quite a bit.

It also doesn't help my connection is almost at the speed of an late 80's modem and disconnects constantly if you look at it funny.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

The moment you get a strange feeling that the RNG is following the tread

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

The moment you get a strange feeling that the RNG is following the tread

In your honor my friend!

[video=youtube;RGQUbbSQP_I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGQUbbSQP_I[/video]

 

[Wargfoot]

[video=youtube;VakU20APPdw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VakU20APPdw[/video]

 

[WeComeInPeace]

Thanks guys

I was once told that Jack Nicholson insisted he wanted to play all the roles in the movie. I sometimes wish he did. He also delivered playing Art Land:

"I'm not a crook, I'm ambitious. There's a difference."

"Even in a time of intergalactic crisis, people still want to roll them bones."

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I DO agree about the false dichotomy.

PVP requires a heavy PVE investment.

Yep. I like to call it "non consensual PvE".

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

There isn't a problem in ED because of the solo and group play option.
Those are basically galaxy wide safe zones.

...

You agree with me, apparently.
I'm not speaking of any other games.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

Slightly OT, but maybe not:

Is it possible to make some sort of macro in ED and bind it to a button, so that one could jettison, say 100T of biowaste, while doing a FAO backflip to enjoy the result?

(The backflip is not the issue, but I can't do both ATST)

Edit: Found it!

 

[teh_pwnisher]

A large problem I think is that as a new player, I didn't know about Mobius for a while after I played. There should be clearer descriptions of what Solo, Open, Private Groups are, so people can avoid the griefers.

Either that, or bigger fines. 100, 1000, 10000, 10000, 100000, 100000, 1000000, etc based on level of the griefer.

 

[Captain Thea Kreutzer]

Either that, or bigger fines. 100, 1000, 10000, 10000, 100000, 100000, 1000000, etc based on level of the griefer.

Credits already increase the more kills you get, I know from killing ai feds in the past . Most people who are griefing have been playing for a while so credits more then likely arent a problem if anything it would be more of a motivation for them.

 

[Morbad]

Everyone is starting out on a level playing field.

Not necessarily.

A decade before Elite: Dangerous' Kickstarter showed up, I was already a PvPer in games like Jumpgate and Freelancer, and had played space sims/shooters for a decade before that. Many of these games had mechanisms that were similar to ED's and many skills were directly transferable to the new game. It took some adapting to get used to the oddities of the hybrid flight model, but very little was truly novel. And that is just the more directly transferable stuff; more fundamental, abstract, low-level, things that gave me an edge up over many players didn't come from video games at all.

players can get really strong compared to new players

There is no way to avoid this, without heavy handed segregation, in any game with any significant skills or tactical considerations to develop.

The aggressive PvP crowd likes to pretend that model works.
They're hard pressed to find examples where it does work.

Jumpgate worked for quite a while, and it's eventual failure wasn't due to open, unrestricted PvP. Indeed, that was a significant part of it's appeal.

The model works fine as long as expectations of popularity are kept in check. Unrestricted open world PvP is always going to be of niche appeal, and basing a game around such freedom, while trying to cater to the lowest common denominator just isn't going to pan out.

 

[Achilles7]

...more fundamental, abstract, low-level, things that gave me an edge up over many players didn't come from video games at all.

Now I'm intrigued...to which "things" are you referring?