Explorer's Anchorage: No Universal Cartographics

[Eisen]

It should IMO also be noted again that communications between the organisers and FDev haven't been easy and often resembled "chinese whispers" as there are only two principal contact-persons between FDev and the team. I was involved in the planning of our CG together with other Rock Rats. We invested a lot of time not only into the writing of a proposal but also into a good RP reasoning behind both CGs. It was my idea to connect tiers in the second CG to the station-services we would achieve. For me and everybody else organising this it was clear that

- we would only have a barebone station during the second CG
- there probably wouldn't even be limpets available for sale (creating the need for emergent gameplay to form a supply chain of limpets to the miners)
- there would be the risk to lose explo-data
- people would have to be careful not to be fined

All this would have been very normal for such an undertaking on the far frontier. But FDev saw it the other way around. I guess they wanted an immensely successful CG and no obstacles to that.

The CG at Omega already broke our proposals cause suddenly that asteroid-base had litterally everything available. That was one of the reasons for all the complaints about the barebone station at SagA*. After Omega and its success I personally could not argue against the adding of basic mining-services to the new station cause people had relied on the availability and sold their stuff. I probably should've been more critical about Universal Cartographics and the Contacts-board.

But had FDev followed our proposal, we would have only had a mission board with the CG and a Commodities market until the end of the CG.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

But I'll bet that if limpets hadn't been available by the time the CG went live most potential participants would have said, "No, this CG is broken!" and gone back to their exploring, and the CG would have failed.

I think it would probably have got to Tier 1, at least. Probably further than that. And they could have adjusted the tier levels had they run it that way, too.

One of the very tricky things Frontier has with CGs and related activities is that if they're all well-prepared for, then they get very samey very quickly.

On the other hand, if you have variety and challenges, people complain and just don't take part at all. The number of people wanting a challenge is way smaller than the number of people wanting an easy success.



My favourite CG was the trade/bounty pair at Einheriar, to establish refugee housing in Colonia for people fleeing the Thargoids.

On the trade side, Colonia's economy was barely big enough to support the CG. Reaching Tier 7 took a lot of careful monitoring of supply levels, letting them recover, then harvesting again - and smaller faster ships often had an advantage over big haulers.

On the bounty hunting side, Einheriar at the time just had a pair of low RES and a normal nav beacon, so there were a lot of people bounty hunting in supercruise, who would drop in and help get the pirates the returning trade ships were attracting. For once in the entire history of the game, the bounty hunting CG was actually about protecting the trade CG, rather than shooting some unrelated criminals.

It was great - but if it had been set up like that in the bubble, the CG thread would have mostly been complaints about the trade goods being too hard to find and not profitable, and there being no good HazRES for bounty hunting.

They've had a few high-difficulty CGs in the bubble in the last year or so, and they've struggled to get 100 participants.

Random afterthought: does anyone think gankers will have any reason to hang around Explorer's Anchorage after DW2 has moved on? Not a ganker myself, so I can't really judge.

I expect much the same as they currently are seen around Colonia, or around Sag A* before DW2 - some of the ones who don't mind a bit of long distance travel will show up from time to time for a change of pace, but there won't be enough of what they're looking for to get anyone living there permanently.

 

[Dagwit]

With one proviso, I wouldn't have minded Eisen's proposal - the proviso being that if there's no System Authority to collect fines, there shouldn't be one to levy them either. I would have brought everything I absolutely needed with me, and I had plans to cope with a lack of limpets.

As a matter of interest, would it have been stressed to DW2 participants at the outset that a mining laser was non-optional if they wanted to participate in the CGs?

 

[marx]

First off, for the megaship and installation not appearing yet: Frontier has a tendency to do this, and only insert stuff at a later date. I don't really know why. A bit more than a month ago, there was a CG for setting up a dedicated scientific facility to study the new kinds of alien life found by explorers. I'll be honest, I found this to be potentially more interesting than upgrading a station next to Sag. A*. (For me, building it was better.) So that one successfully concluded, we got a message that it's going to be built, and in the weeks since then... nothing.


As for CGs, Ian Doncaster has some very good points there. For a long time now, they have been these easy activities that give out some nice rewards. If they made them more challenging, then the number of participants would drop like a rock. Honestly, I'm not surprised that the developers decided to put them on ice for the time being, until they prepare whatever the dev-supported game-wide events will be, and also that they'd continue only player CGs after that. You see, for the latter, they can make them more challenging - I don't speak for any player groups, but I believe most of them would like this. (As long as it's challenging, not "practically impossible", mind.) For the former, it can be so too - there should be higher stakes, after all. The Colonia CGs Ian described there behaved as if they were Player CGs, after all. (You might even say that the groups of people who regularly hang around Colonia are a player meta-group.)
As FD put it, "[Community Goals] have become somewhat routine for many Commanders", and trivial tasks that are going to succeed anyway are not something you want to provide engagement with. Frankly, to me it's a pity that the DW2 CGs turned into this as well, but I can understand that with all the bad news and silence recently, Frontier didn't want to risk the DW2 goals failing.

 

[Factabulous]

The CG at Omega already broke our proposals cause suddenly that asteroid-base had litterally everything available. That was one of the reasons for all the complaints about the barebone station at SagA*. After Omega and its success I personally could not argue against the adding of basic mining-services to the new station cause people had relied on the availability and sold their stuff. I probably should've been more critical about Universal Cartographics and the Contacts-board.

But had FDev followed our proposal, we would have only had a mission board with the CG and a Commodities market until the end of the CG.

Interesting - so fdev get a load of stick (from the community) because not everything was on a plate weeks before the CG(s), but that was actually how it was intended to be. This is the difficulty for fdev - if they make things challenging they get told that people don't want that challenge, and if they make it easy then people complain it is cookie cutter / too easy. And then something else invariably goes wrong and they get blamed again (Tier levels - too low at the first one, so they needed to add Tier 11, but then too difficult to hit Tier 11 at the second).

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

For a long time now, they have been these easy activities that give out some nice rewards. If they made them more challenging, then the number of participants would drop like a rock. Honestly, I'm not surprised that the developers decided to put them on ice for the time being, until they prepare whatever the dev-supported game-wide events will be, and also that they'd continue only player CGs after that. You see, for the latter, they can make them more challenging - I don't speak for any player groups, but I believe most of them would like this. (As long as it's challenging, not "practically impossible", mind.) For the former, it can be so too - there should be higher stakes, after all. The Colonia CGs Ian described there behaved as if they were Player CGs, after all. (You might even say that the groups of people who regularly hang around Colonia are a player meta-group.)

As FD put it, "[Community Goals] have become somewhat routine for many Commanders", and trivial tasks that are going to succeed anyway are not something you want to provide engagement with. Frankly, to me it's a pity that the DW2 CGs turned into this as well, but I can understand that with all the bad news and silence recently, Frontier didn't want to risk the DW2 goals failing.

Couldn't agree more. The requests made to FDev when the original DW2 CG proposal was sent in was asking for a challenge, or something that would make the outcome at least uncertain. I think DW2 came a year early for that, but its encouraging to see FDev now recognizing how trivial CGs had become and are thinking of revamping the concept.

Spoiler

We feel that any CG proposal we submit for a Distant Worlds type event has to meet several criteria to make it worthwhile;

• It has to have a logical goal behind it, and importantly give participants a reason to care about being actively involved (outside of just monetary gain).

• To avoid too much repetitiveness, it has to give players taking part the option to switch loadouts and utilize as many different gameplay mechanics as possible, and in doing so allow them the choice to take on different event roles any time they like. Random ‘incidents’ would also break up the monotony and the inclusion of such events should be explored and implemented if at all possible (see additional ideas at the end of the CG proposal).

• Having it entwined with the Distant Worlds II expedition gives both the CG and the expedition itself a new dimension to the whole joint venture, i.e. there is a background ‘story’ for the CG to play against, and a practical ‘hands on’ aspect to the expedition beyond sightseeing the galaxy.

• If accepted the CG will hope to incorporate dedicated groups like the Fuel Rats, Rock Rats, and any interested mining-based player factions, to play significant roles on DW2.

• Although solo participation will always be an option, teamwork should be encouraged to make the experience more social and efficient. Working in tandem with a major community organized event like DW2 will provide the infrastructure for that teamwork to flourish via roles, comms, schedules, and all the background cooperation that big expedition events pride themselves on.

• Above all, it has to be challenging as to give players who see it through to a successful conclusion a sense of achievement and pride for their participation. A CG failure should therefore be a possible outcome too. We would also welcome an opposing CG to prevent these installations being built, or to sabotage their outcomes.

 

[Bigmaec]

I guess you can't please all.

For me it was important to have a universal cartographics at EA, but I pre-fitted my ship in Colonia as mining-exploration hybrid with only a 64t cargo rack.
I would've been totally happy without outfitting or restock at EA, but UC was important for me because I wanted to fly in open, and imho Explorers have the most to lose from ganking,
so that had to be mitigated in my opinion.
Others propably would've skipped on the UC for outfitting or crew lounge or whatever.

Personally, I think it was a nice CG, but just a little bit too normal.
And I love the new starport as a waypoint.
If there would be a shipyard, I'd propably park my exploration Beluga there and a PvP vessel, too.
But there is none, that's ok for me too.

edit: wrong thread, duh, this should be in the DD thread

 

[Mk1Cursed]

So the raging success of the CG achieving tire 10 involving tens of thousands of player hours has resulted in 5/8ths of ***k all from F-Dev. I fully expected a lavishly provisioned station outfitting, a raw material trader/s and anything else F-Dev could think off to thank the thousands of players for their time, effort and enthusiasm.

Though why I should've been suprised after The Gnosis... more fool me.

This in no way decreases my appreciation to the DW2 organisers for what has been an AUSMS experience so far. o7
Onward to Beagle.

 

[Dagwit]

This in no way decreases my appreciation to the DW2 organisers for what has been an AUSMS experience so far. o7

Having slept on it, I feel that in my earlier posts I didn't make it clear enough that my frustration is entirely with Frontier's ongoing inability to manage their contribution to this kind of "special event" or assess the likely impact of their decisions on players. For those players who have organised and driven forward DW2 I have nothing but respect.

 

[Commdor]

So the raging success of the CG achieving tire 10 involving tens of thousands of player hours has resulted in 5/8ths of ***k all from F-Dev. I fully expected a lavishly provisioned station outfitting, a raw material trader/s and anything else F-Dev could think off to thank the thousands of players for their time, effort and enthusiasm.

Though why I should've been suprised after The Gnosis... more fool me.

This in no way decreases my appreciation to the DW2 organisers for what has been an AUSMS experience so far. o7
Onward to Beagle.

You set yourself up for extra disappointment there. The CG text and Galnet report both said the reward would only be an installation and a (presumably non-dockable) megaship.

A raw material trader would have been nice though.