And their strategy seems to be working, no complaints. [wink]
Masterplan of Planet Coaster
- Thread starter joeee
- Start date
And their strategy seems to be working, no complaints. [wink]
Theres a difference between saying "Hey we are working on a big expansion for 2018" versus saying "here is an itemized list of whats to come"
if your going to say that it is impossible for a company to say "water parks are a possibility" then maybe you would not make a good marketing team. Its just messed up how much we saw during alpha that was cut, but now everything is classified top secret sworn by blood. Why was so much cut content shown to us during alpha? There have been many rumors about UGC, even the devs talked about it during alpha, but nothing "official" has been stated, except for the new UGC tags on the workshop. Is that for UGC or a scenario editor? Why should we have to speculate?
Look there are many fans of this game who support frontier, and not everybody will start fighting when something gets cut. I mean sure some people have been making a big deal out of picnic benches, or little things like that, but giving us a little heads up about future DLC would be a lot better than just saying "cosmetic DLC is coming"
Its kind of annoying how many times this very discussion gets repeated too, ever sense the official release. People are complaining about the anniversary update being small, other people are saying that the update will have more and the expo didnt show us everything... ok so WHY IS IT A SECRET thats not fun its rude, especially to the people who have been here from the beginning.
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But is there inside information that we don’t know yet? Such as everything that is in the anniversary update, we only know some of it but the devs know everything that is in it. And they must know what they want to do with Planet Coaster in the future, but they only know what is going to be in each update as they develop new content and decide exactly what will be in the next update. So, for example they probably won’t know in their minds what is going to be in update 1.5 until probably December or January as they start development of the next update after the anniversary update. It must take them a long time to make flat rides like the new Musik Express type one with all that detail. That’s why we only get a few rides per update. I love these games, from the Bullfrog Theme Park games to RCT series (except World), Parkitect (haven’t played with it much) and Planet Coaster. I love the concept of being able to create your own amusement park world, and visit other’s parks. I always liked to go to amusement parks, and I have one a couple miles from me. Dorney Park and Wildwater Kingdom now part of Cedar Fair since 1992 but founded 1884.
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Don't make promises but acknowledge the problems would be a nice start.
There is nothing wrong with the information they spread during the Alpha's. Maybe they where a bit to sure about some stuff.
So because they where a bit overexcited about some things in the past they just now don't tell anything anymore until they got it working (but we don't like it)?
It's really poor when you keep smiling in the camera and keep saying how wonderfull you work together with the community when you actually don't.
The problem here is not the content being added. It's all cool and nice..... but if it doesn't work or is buggy as .....
Yes, they take over ideas from the forum, put it in the blender, mix it up, get it in the game and shout "enjoy", but if it is not enjoyable (seqeuncer is the best example) you cannot say you did a great job.
THIS is where you want the extra feedback from the community, but it needs to be two way traffic.
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I think this is the case. they got "burnt" by the forum for showing more than they could deliver in order to give the early access people an behind the scenes kind of look on what they were playing around with. This has backfired on both the community and Frontier by now not telling anyone anything until it is done. The 4th coaster ride that they said will come but not saying which one is another example of this. They probably have a ride ready but maybe not the ride they want to release (maybe because it is a highly sought after coaster that the community has "demanded" for some time). They are hoping to get it ready in time but may not be sure just yet. It would not surprise me if this will be shown only days before actual release.
This part is manly coming from the community managers (Bo and Ed) and that is their job. They are supposed to interact with the community and keep the mood cheery and good. From what I can tell they are doing a very good job with that. See them as sales people for Frontier. Same thing happens in all industries. Sales people goes out and talks positively about the product or service they are selling. They you will have some less cheery engineers in the background cursing because now they need to deliver something that may not have been fully worked through yet. It is a fine line and for the most part it turns out good in the end. (this was a dramatized example of situations that is happening in every company that has sales and engineers working together).
Everyone at Frontier cares deeply about the games that we make and the people that play them. We really appreciate all of your feedback, and we welcome it. It really helps the teams shape the experiences you are asking for – wherever possible.
We are well aware of the feedback you’re providing, and the problems some people are having. That’s why these forums are here; that’s why support and the dev team read to help them prioritise features and fixes. We do weekly livestreams to get the community together and enjoy a game we love; I know that for some people who might be less vocal online, those weekly moments are incredibly important. It’s why people on the team and myself take that time to talk to you, try to answer questions, and listen to your feedback in the chat.
We cannot make changes as quickly as some would like… It’s simply not how game development works. Everybody has a different opinion on what their ‘perfect version' of Planet Coaster looks like, so it would be a very difficult balance to achieve – we’re doing our best to try to achieve that balance.
Because of this we are as active as we possibly can be with our communications: we are active on the forums, we do the livestreams, we host events for you to attend – and we do implement things based on what you say (even if it’s not possible for it to be in the timeframe some of you want it to be).
The reason we cannot always tell you in advance what we are working on, is because we don’t want to talk about or promise you features when they are not 100% perfect in our vision. Sometimes things we want to put in the game end up being a massive challenge for the team, and they need to be fluid in their work and their ability to get it implemented. In the meantime, we continue to gather feedback and do our best to solve your reported bugs.
TLDR: We’ve heard the feedback regarding the Anniversary Update. We as a team stand behind the update, since there's new fun content that we've shown you at FX2017. The developers are passionate about it, we’re excited to show you how everything works, and we are thankful for the messages of love and support we’ve received both at the Expo and afterwards.
Thank you for understanding.
[heart]
Bo
We are well aware of the feedback you’re providing, and the problems some people are having. That’s why these forums are here; that’s why support and the dev team read to help them prioritise features and fixes. We do weekly livestreams to get the community together and enjoy a game we love; I know that for some people who might be less vocal online, those weekly moments are incredibly important. It’s why people on the team and myself take that time to talk to you, try to answer questions, and listen to your feedback in the chat.
We cannot make changes as quickly as some would like… It’s simply not how game development works. Everybody has a different opinion on what their ‘perfect version' of Planet Coaster looks like, so it would be a very difficult balance to achieve – we’re doing our best to try to achieve that balance.
Because of this we are as active as we possibly can be with our communications: we are active on the forums, we do the livestreams, we host events for you to attend – and we do implement things based on what you say (even if it’s not possible for it to be in the timeframe some of you want it to be).
The reason we cannot always tell you in advance what we are working on, is because we don’t want to talk about or promise you features when they are not 100% perfect in our vision. Sometimes things we want to put in the game end up being a massive challenge for the team, and they need to be fluid in their work and their ability to get it implemented. In the meantime, we continue to gather feedback and do our best to solve your reported bugs.
TLDR: We’ve heard the feedback regarding the Anniversary Update. We as a team stand behind the update, since there's new fun content that we've shown you at FX2017. The developers are passionate about it, we’re excited to show you how everything works, and we are thankful for the messages of love and support we’ve received both at the Expo and afterwards.
Thank you for understanding.
[heart]
Bo
WingardiumLevicoaster
Volunteer Moderator
So from my own experience as a software dev, (not saying how it works at Frontier) on my team we have a backlog of items which are wanted. They are regularly reordered by priority. New items are added and many stay at the bottom forever. We only plan what we are doing 2 - 4 weeks in advance for sure with a vague idea of the future pipeline. As the list grows and priorities change, it becomes very difficult to promise anything except for the most recent work, which still might not work out and development is often one big experiment. Now I don't develop games, but this method is one of the industry standards for software development. Just trying to help people understand why it might be this way.
I have absolutely no doubt in the passion and the commitment of the people working on the game.
The game still reflects that through it's looks and the fun it provides.
I love the game, it is still one of my most played games (thought it is only sandbox).
And I always get that satisfaction when I play the game or when I complete something I have been working on a long time.
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Thanks. I only have experience when it comes to working with projects, not specifically as a game developer.
I know I might sound harsh, but I'm not cooking with anger or something like that and smashing my keyboard.
I just hope for some things... Like everyone else has his wishes here.
The game still reflects that through it's looks and the fun it provides.
I love the game, it is still one of my most played games (thought it is only sandbox).
And I always get that satisfaction when I play the game or when I complete something I have been working on a long time.
[heart][up]
Thanks. I only have experience when it comes to working with projects, not specifically as a game developer.
I know I might sound harsh, but I'm not cooking with anger or something like that and smashing my keyboard.
I just hope for some things... Like everyone else has his wishes here.
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i agree with WingardiumLevicoaster.
Agile development leads to feature request queues that tend to stretch; for most companies i've worked with, the stretch factor is about 10% per month - so the next 3-4 weeks resemble the plan, but 3 months away will more likely be 4 months (+30%), and 10 months away is more like 20 months! and some items just sit at the bottom forever.
there are advanced scheduling technologies used in some (rare) companies that increase the reliability of the road map schedule, halving the stretch (or even quartering it), but never eliminating it. and given that game audience tolerance for "due dates" is probably weeks, not quarters (as it is in business apps), Frontier simply cannot give us a roadmap without serious and passionate screaming and complaining.
Agile development leads to feature request queues that tend to stretch; for most companies i've worked with, the stretch factor is about 10% per month - so the next 3-4 weeks resemble the plan, but 3 months away will more likely be 4 months (+30%), and 10 months away is more like 20 months! and some items just sit at the bottom forever.
there are advanced scheduling technologies used in some (rare) companies that increase the reliability of the road map schedule, halving the stretch (or even quartering it), but never eliminating it. and given that game audience tolerance for "due dates" is probably weeks, not quarters (as it is in business apps), Frontier simply cannot give us a roadmap without serious and passionate screaming and complaining.
So at Frontier Expo they said sold 1 million copies of planet coaster. Let me ask you these questions based on 1 million people.
1 How many of the 1 million really care about fixing the coaster smoothness?
2 How many really want to micro manage every thing?
3 how many want more flat rides?
4 how many want building pieces to block out light to make dark rides?
5 how many people want more coasters?
1 I would say less than 100K really care about coaster smoothness = 10% or less
2 going to say still less than 100K = 10% or less
3 going to say more than 100K
4 going to say less than 100K = 10% or less
5 going to say more than 100K
and that's just 5 of the top things I see a daily bases here.
1 How many of the 1 million really care about fixing the coaster smoothness?
2 How many really want to micro manage every thing?
3 how many want more flat rides?
4 how many want building pieces to block out light to make dark rides?
5 how many people want more coasters?
1 I would say less than 100K really care about coaster smoothness = 10% or less
2 going to say still less than 100K = 10% or less
3 going to say more than 100K
4 going to say less than 100K = 10% or less
5 going to say more than 100K
and that's just 5 of the top things I see a daily bases here.
I kinda agree: but here is the Thing: We don't know for sure.
I don't know what the Number of "Casual" Gamers are. Neither those of the Hardcore Theme Park Nerds like myself and my Friends. All we can do is guess and it can easily be the other way around.
Like i said, i don't know.
But what i have to say is: Certain People here in the Forum complain because their specific issue wasn't adressed and are getting quite hostile about it. It is this entitled attitude that kinda cheeses me off. I have loads of stuff i want, but i realize i might be the only one that wants it. I talk about it on the Forum, and if enough people like it they might or might not implement it. Same with Management: All the things that people seem to want for Management boil down to Micromanagement and Babysitting the Park which would keep me from actually playing the Game. This is not meant as belittling the Ideas of others, but to show that not everybody here thinks the same. I don't expect that ANY of my wishes will make it into the Game (or suggestions i have to perhaps make it better in some way) because:
A: i am not a Programmer and have no clue about how much work of feasible something is to implement.
B: my ideas might go completely against what some people want, as some suggestions go completely against what i want.
And i already posted a Wall of text with stuff i want changed for everybody to comment on. And guess what? The peope constantly shouting about improving the Game were nowhere to be seen. Do with that information what you will.
Same here that's why I posted those 5 questions just to point out how small just some of hot issues really are to the grand picture of Planet Coaster.
This!
There is no doubt that the most dedicated fans of this game hangs around these forums, both as active and passive contributors, both the biggest fanboys and the heaviest critics that doesn't seem to like anything Frontier releases (but still are very dedicated fans). We are all here for the reason that we like the game and the genera and we all want the game to evolve.
A lot of the problem here though I think its that is a certain feature is not added, a certain ride not included in the next update or whatever QoL improvements not happening as "expected" there is an outcry that Frontier does not listen to the fans etc. As stated above we here on the forum only represents a small fraction of the total player base. Looking at the daily active threads and posts by unique members we can say with some certainty that the majority of the 1 million owners of this game are not here on the forums. Frontier as a company need to keep all gamer groups happy. From a business standpoint they can't listen to only the hardcore fans on this forum but need to make decisions that pleases both us and, more important;y, does not scare away the other 99% of the player base. In the end, it is the masses that generates all the income and pays the bills. Not saying Frontier is struggling as a company, they are not. But they will if they start ignoring the majority of their customer base just to please a fraction of the most dedicated fans. I am also not saying that Frontier should ignore us because we are just a small percentage of the total customer base. They most definitely need to keep us happy as well since we in essence are also selling the game to others by making YouTube videos, talking about it etc. But it has to be a balance between the two forces and which ever will give the biggest long term success is what they will go with. Success in the meaning of revenue and keeping the series alive for a long time.
I don';t think the average player cares about what is in an update or even if it is free or paid. Today, most causal games are already accustomed to pay additional money for additional content to a game. That is how the business is today for games. Blame Apple and Google for this development, but I think it is here to stay. In the mind of a causal gamer, this game is "finished" and anything added to it is either a bonus (in their minds) or a new content pack just like in every other game that they willingly will pay for.The majority is always driving the economy.
Even those with relatively decent systems struggle. My system is average and I can only do a detailed park up to one sixth size of the map and then get fps of 14 down to 1 if increase the peps coming in . SIMS technology was bad I thought PC would be much more advanced, so yes again agree the lag needs attention, by advancing the optimisation. I also was hoping for animatronics creator which I would gladly pay £30 for however this is way down the line the base game (before any DLCs) needs massively sorting first. Seriously do not play this for the time being I am hoping for serious improvements to come!
If there's been a 1Million copies sold, then why have I never seen (steamdb) more a few thousand playing at any one time?
Because not everybody is playing on the same day, at the same time!
Yes, I get that, just seems rather low, I mean I've never seen it rise above 3/4000, even after an update, oh well, moving on.....[happy]