I never, ever tried to close the discussion, or even tried to shut up the dissent,
Then perhaps stop using phrases that seem to be aimed at shutting down opinions? "Just leave powerplay to us" - how else should i have interpreted that? You're saying you belong to the only group with a valid opinion and my opinions should be kept quiet. That's how i read it.
Never ever wanted to do so but, excuse me is I say so, it's really difficult to discuss with people that deny the evidence only to go on with their idea.
What evidence? We are discussion options and opinions aren't we?
Let's take a couple of steps back.
Sure!
First of al, you can agree with that or not, but Open Play is a totally different kind of game. Is it better? Worse? Does it suit your likings? That's not the point, and you're still going around that thing even if I tried on and on to not talk about that, but just how it is different, far less effective and how it's made irrelevant by two different modes which are Private and Solo.
There's people who like Open better, and people who like Pvt/Solo, I'm not here to argue about that (same can't be said by you, you even mentioned that in your last reply).
Well, agree with part of what you say, but i still don't agree on the irrelevant. It can be less effective, usually depending on how many people are around and their intentions. A lot of the time in open you don't see any other players, so during those times its no different to solo. Hell, i'm located fairly center bubble and if running around doing missions i'll be lucky to see a single other player in a night's gaming. I'll usually send an o7 their way. Sometimes, i'll get an o7 back.
The only difference is that Open Player have not a game mode to measure how good they are as a team, period. Tell me differently and, again, you're intellectualy dishonest (and you're being a lot denying a fact as how Open is a totally different way to play the game, different, much more dangerous, not better or worse).
Agh, no. They don't have a game mode or feature to measure how good they are at PvP (either in killing or avoiding). Period. You can measure how good you are at the BGS or PP as a team regardless of mode. Because they are PvE activities. Should FD implement a mechanic around PvP, then naturally that should mainly take play in Open, then you would have a measure of how good individuals and groups are at PvP. But for the moment, the only real PvP focused feature that exists is CQC.
So we're arguing first of all about how this game style is made irrelevant, then we're looking for solutions, something to find for that. And no, even if you keep talking about PvP it's not what the Open Play community wants, we're not all a bunch of people looking for other CMDRs just to satisfy some kind of hidden miserable frustration, so a "PvP only" mechanic is not what people is looking for.
Well, you are arguing that, i'm saying otherwise. But sure, present solutions instead of arguing with me! It would be great if we could all go back to presenting possible solutions. Unfortunately, most people seems to just keep repeating "open only" like its the only possible solution, with no other thought. To give you credit, you have suggested more than just this, acknowledging other things would need to change
in addition to it going open only.
I know some people are saying they don't want OO just for PvP, but that is exactly what you are asking for be added. A removal of the "safe" way of playing and ensuring that everyone has to engage in PvP. By this, i don't mean just combat, i include evading combat as a hauler. Of course, i have raised the question regarding just how many haulers will continue to haul in the face of player combatantants and its effect on the powers. Its a shame that rather than discussing that, and looking for possible ways it could be moderated in some ways, so PP doesn't become a gankers paradise, people around here seem not to want to acknowledge it. Perhaps they are optimistic and think it won't be. Maybe they are right.
Maybe if people will die a lot from attacks, the CC numbers would need to be reduced, especially if there was a drop in the number of haulers.
As you can see everything you said in your last posts is technically wrong in many ways.
Umm... no, i don't see that. But feel free to disagree with me!
You still think Open Play gives the same challenges as other modes: you're wrong, it's absurd to say differently.
You think that Open Players consider themselves better than others: again, wrong, we just want something to play with without some invisible entity that make your efforts irrelevant.
You think that somebody's looking for a pure PvP mechanic: newsflash, it's already been tried, it's called CQC and it didn't go that well (because people thought that a pew-pew only thing could be something that'd solve the "seal-clubbing" problem, right). World's not black and white: exclusive PvPers and PvEers are not the only kind of players in here, what about the grey area where you can find most Open Players?
I'm sensing strawmen here. I've never said it provides the same challenges. I do think some open only players consdier themselves better, and i think its abusurd to disagree with that. Just go hang out on any PvP oriented discord and wait for someone to mention PG or solo.
Its a shame about CQC, its not a bad idea. It might simply just be the wrong thing for the ED community. The amount of people looking for an arena style game in ED is probably small. People enjoy their customized big ships too much or just enjoy doing their own thing, flying a spaceship around. Some PvPers don't want fair fights. Some PvPers don't want a challenge. We see this time and again. Its unfortunate. Still CQC is quite good if you get into it, its just usually i'd rather be doing something in the main game rather than playing CQC.
You gave proof yourself about this kind of construct in your mind when you talked about "people finally hauling", well you've been proved wrong that time too, btw.
Darn it, don't you just hate it when your personal opinion is proven to be wrong?
I'm sorry, maybe in your head you think you've somehow proven my opinion to be wrong, but that is in your head.
Why Powerplay? Well, because it was designed for that
If it was designed for it, then it wouldn't need making open only. Any intentions to make it PvP oriented utterly failed in that direction. Keep in mind, the only significant difference between the modes is PvP, so when we are discussing open only, we are effectively discussing PvP and it being an enforced part of the gameplay. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on the person.
The real problem right now is that there's a part of the Community asking for a gamestyle of their own and there's other people fighting so hard to deny that to them. So don't put the mask of the "bad guy" shutting out people to me, I'm the propositive one in here, it's you that are fighting against something that other people are asking.
People? There are others? Come on guys! Get posting! I'm all alone here!
And i'm not fighting to deny you anything. I'm trying to discuss options, opinions, and theories. If, at the end of the day, FD decided to make PP open only, then i'd be interested to sit back and watch what happens. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong and that PP flourshes and becomes a really good and engaging gameplay with lots of activity. What I expect is different, but hey, that's just me. I expect it to become a salt fest, with powers collapsing, accusations of combat logging and cheating to escalate, bad blood between player groups, etc... basically the same things you get in every game where PvP is the focus. Go read the Ark forums some time about the PvP servers
You like to quote, then quote this: why are you fighting so hard? Would it be that much of a tragedy if Powerplay would become an Open Only game mechanic? Would it affect your gameplay in any way? Would it be so terrible to just ignore an Open Only Powerplay as I ignore mining? or exploration?
I'm not fighting. I'm enjoying a good debate. No, it wouldn't be a tragedy if it went open only. I'm against on principle because i believe FD should not pander to any particular group from any mode in order to favour a particular mode. As i just said in a previous post, i think modes are a good thing, although a split server would have been better. Then everyone could have had a version of PP on their own terms. But it didn't happen.
It wouldn't affect my gameplay as it stands, no. It would mean that should FD implement changes that I would be interesting in participating in, I would be forced to do that in open. While i do fly in open a lot these days, there are plenty of days when i don't want the open experience, usually when i'm drinking
When I say "Leave Powerplay to us" I mean "Leave us something suited to our gamestyle, where other people with a different idea can find their place to have fun".
Ah, well, sorry, it just doesn't across like that. But how about leaving PP cross mode, but look for other ways to improve it that would make it fun for more people, not less? And perhaps something that would make it more interesting for those in open without biasing against any mode? How would you feel if the PvE PPers started asking FD to remove PP from Open? It is a PvE game, and obviously the Open players are not intersted in PP, after all, aren't a majority of PP players in PG/solo? (not realy, just making a point based on how some people talk). Anyway, make it more inclusive, not exclusive.
Don't be that kind of guy that fights to not let people have things. THAT's shameful. You're not even involved, you don't know how it goes but you know for sure we can't have an Open Play game mechanic "just because" (or maybe "just because kickstarter"?)
I'm not fighting, i'm having a fun and challenging debate. In what way am i not involved? In PP? Because its rubbish as it is. There are others here who are in favour of open only, but are also not playing it because they don't find it good as it is. Are you telling them they are not involved? And its not "just because". I've explained my reasons. You can choose to accept or reject them as you please.
It is a matter of principle, in your case. For us it's a matter of having something to play with. Right now you're like the guys who were against mining during the focused feedback because "there's something more important to do first".
You have something to play with. We all do. Its just not necessarity good as it is, and I agree with you on that. Again, there might be more than one way to skin a cat.
As for the mining thing, hell, nothing wrong with those of the opinion that mining improvements should have been delayed in favour of other things. Sure, mining turned out well, but there are still probably plenty of people who would rather have had something else come first, and its a valid opinion. Don't start having a go at people who want different things to be implemented in different orders.
You see, I'm not in the sections of the game you care of telling people they should stay with what they have, you are.
Shame on me, right?
Erm, not sure what you are trying to say here. You think i'm trying to tell you that you should be happy with what you have? How can you think that after our many rounds of debate? Also... what sections? I'm confused by that.