Suggestion: Hyper-Factor (MetaDrive?)

[Chaparral]

impressive, once again, you have actually nothing to say. why do you even bother?

Sigh. You are missing the point. SC as a mechanic should evolve as so many other mechanics in this game have evolved.

You are either internally inconsistent (the game is fine, SC should not change - but I will used other mechanics that have changed), or you are internally consistent and refuse to use the other evolved mechanics.

I always have something to say it's up to you to suss it out.

 

[Guest 161958]

People who cannot appreciate the added detail of having to wait to reach a destination which contributes to the fulfilling experience of flying a spaceship should stop making silly suggestions.

These suggestion are the result of you being unable to attain the acquired taste needed to play this game. When you ask for things which speed up a process you are taking detail away even if it seems the opposite.

Always trying to raise the bar until becoming godlike is a sure way to become bored of anything. After godlike there's nothing to raise.

What the hell, we can jump 300ly in a matter of seconds. Isn't it enough? SC speed is directly proportional to distance, gravity wells are there for a tactical reason, to deepen the interdiction mechanics.

Find the enjoyment in your handicaps and you will see a completely new dimension in this game.

 

[Chaparral]

Maybe if you bothered to do some research you would know that frontier actually does their own research and what I said can be supported by examples from actual science.

Also the "magic floating guardians" are using the Hutchison effect to levitate which is something that has been used to levitate both magnetic and non magnetic materials using electromagnetic waves.
And is reproducible in real life

Not only that but there is an alternative method to the Hutchison effect utilizing quantum levitation and electromagnetic pulses instead of waves. Although quantum levitation is harder to utilize for mobility than the Hutchison effect is.

Open a book sometime,
Use google
Do some research on physics and quantum physics
Maybe you will learn something.

Also if the vastness of space is "lazy"
you are playing the wrong game

Hahahahaha. You are seriously suggesting that an object fragmented into pieces that translates through 6df would be more efficiently bound by the Hutchison effect than actual physical matter. The whole sparky blingy thing has nothing to do with the visual interest/appeal. Give me a break.

You should take a step back from living in a big bounding box with a starfield painted on it and think about what is actually fun. Sitting and doing nothing for 20 minutes is never "fun". It might have it's uses when meditating - but yeah - sitting in front of my 55" monitor - not so much.

I understand that when your concepts are challenged, it is very attractive to say that the person you are having an argument with is ignorant. I have been teaching physics for 30 years, and worked in an inertial confinement fusion lab. I don't want to give you a laundry list of science errors in Elite, because it is a GAME.

Developing scientific arguments to support bad game mechanics will never improve the game. It might make you feel better about spending an ocean of personal time in SC - but the quality of the experience is still the same - a loop of animated dots scrolling past, with a reticle on a target. Feeble game play. No skill. No risk. No visual interest. Just a soul-sucking waste of time.

If that is what you want about a game experience, maybe you shouldn't be playing games at all.

 

[Lestat]

You should take a step back from living in a big bounding box with a starfield painted on it and think about what is actually fun. Sitting and doing nothing for 20 minutes is never "fun". It might have it's uses when meditating - but yeah - sitting in front of my 55" monitor - not so much.

All because players like you don't want to use some of the features of the game. Sorry, the Fault lies with you and only you. A little use of the Galaxy map and system map. You would save your self-time and effort.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

All because players like you don't want to use some of the features of the game. Sorry, the Fault lies with you and only you. A little use of the Galaxy map and system map. You would save your self-time and effort.

Players like us want to travel long intra-system distances in the game while having engaging gameplay, which cannot be the case when you have to sit there with literally nothing to do for 90 minutes or more. So tell us how the Galaxy Map and System Map will help with that?

But because of the fact that supercruise is very poorly designed for long distance travel, we don’t get to have that. Frontier so far have not done anything to improve it, and it could be all because players like you want some of the features in the game to stagnate and never evolve into something more interesting and engaging.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

People who cannot appreciate the added detail of having to wait to reach a destination which contributes to the fulfilling experience of flying a spaceship should stop making silly suggestions.

These suggestion are the result of you being unable to attain the acquired taste needed to play this game. When you ask for things which speed up a process you are taking detail away even if it seems the opposite.

Always trying to raise the bar until becoming godlike is a sure way to become bored of anything. After godlike there's nothing to raise.

What the hell, we can jump 300ly in a matter of seconds. Isn't it enough? SC speed is directly proportional to distance, gravity wells are there for a tactical reason, to deepen the interdiction mechanics.

Find the enjoyment in your handicaps and you will see a completely new dimension in this game.

This sounds reasonable, until you realise that it’s trying to defend a mechanic that results in situations where you literally have nothing to do in-game other than stare at a barely changing screen for 90 minutes or more. That’s not gameplay.

A suggestion that it should be improved or somewhat shortened is not silly. It’s perfectly reasonable. The defence of this mechanic as legitimate or even acceptable gameplay is absurd.

Either give players a variety of things to do en route, or else create an alternate local travel mode with a high skill requirement, high risk factor, increased fuel cost, and possibly introduce a material cost, to balance out a significant reduction in time costs.

 

[Velixar]

One station just one in the galaxy has 90 minutes travel time in Elite Dangerous. Novindus focus on that station it only. That system has a large following. It also has a right of passage for most Elite players.

But Novindus ignores the other 99.99 of the the other Stations and systems are less than 15 minutes or less. How stupid is this.

So we are looking at 399,999,999,999 that are 15 minutes or less travel time. Yet Novindus focus on the only system that takes 90 minutes.

 

[Sylow]

Mixed feelings here. On one hand, i think that in terms of gameplay what we have is fine. Nobody forces you to go to such a remove outpost. It's your own decision to travel there and spend the time.

For me suggestions like this one kind of feels like "I want to go to the north pole. But they need to build a highway there, so i can be back on time for lunch."

On the other hand, there's always again the suggestion that you could jump to different stars in a system. Unlike a "faster SC" suggestion, there's some logic behind that. I mean, we -do- jump towards stars, so why can't we target any star in a system?

This unfortunately also would reduce some of the vastness of space here. In many scenarios could cut down travel times a lot. So indeed in my eyes it would take away from the achievement of going to some very remote places by implementing a short cut.

That's why i have mixed feelings on this one. On one hand it it would be a logical thing to have in the world of ED, on the other hand it would devalue a few things.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

One station just one in the galaxy has 90 minutes travel time in Elite Dangerous. Novindus focus on that station it only. That system has a large following. It also has a right of passage for most Elite players.

But Novindus ignores the other 99.99 of the the other Stations and systems are less than 15 minutes or less. How stupid is this.

So we are looking at 399,999,999,999 that are 15 minutes or less travel time. Yet Novindus focus on the only system that takes 90 minutes.

Seriously? I mention a popular example and you take it as the only far distant location in a system out of 400 billion of them? How stupid is that?

Try EDDB for a list near Sol.

As for the sadomasochistic rite of passage it has in the game, in no way does that justify the glaringly insufficient intra-system travel mechanic.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Mixed feelings here. On one hand, i think that in terms of gameplay what we have is fine. Nobody forces you to go to such a remove outpost. It's your own decision to travel there and spend the time.

For me suggestions like this one kind of feels like "I want to go to the north pole. But they need to build a highway there, so i can be back on time for lunch."

On the other hand, there's always again the suggestion that you could jump to different stars in a system. Unlike a "faster SC" suggestion, there's some logic behind that. I mean, we -do- jump towards stars, so why can't we target any star in a system?

This unfortunately also would reduce some of the vastness of space here. In many scenarios could cut down travel times a lot. So indeed in my eyes it would take away from the achievement of going to some very remote places by implementing a short cut.

That's why i have mixed feelings on this one. On one hand it it would be a logical thing to have in the world of ED, on the other hand it would devalue a few things.

You have a point, but a time sink isn’t the only form of achievement. It’s not even a really meaningful one when the metric is how long you’re willing to stare at a wallpaper and do nothing, so it’s pretty difficult to devalue much further.

As I keep saying, if there was an additional mechanic that was challenging and risky, and had its own additional costs but significantly reduced travel time, it would not only be more engaging, but it would make a trip like that more of an achievement, and confer on it a greater sense of achievement. At the same time, players could still travel the traditional way.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I think our opinion will always diverge because you see elite as a game, I see it as a simulator.

Would you complain if this was an airplane simulator and you had to stare at the monitor looking at your cockpit while going from an airport to another distant one?

Do you realize I feel the gameplay you are asking for thanks to these changing screens. And what I am doing between them? It is not like you are stuck in witchspace and you have to stare after all.

The issue is not how we travel, the issue is the little content between these changing screens.

Everyone is entitled to play there own way, and all ways are valid. But though you may choose to treat it as a simulator, and to a degree it is one, it’s also unquestionably a game that people play, and was also designed and developed as such.

Whatever you’re doing on a 90+ minute trip, the game doesn’t actually offer anything, which is the point. To design a mechanic that relies on players filling their long waiting times with activities outside of the game is beyond poor, and it’s by no means the best or only way to accomplish intra-system travel.

 

[Para Handy]

Seriously? I mention a popular example and you take it as the only far distant location in a system out of 400 billion of them? How stupid is that?

Try EDDB for a list near Sol. {list of 190Kls-ish stations}
........

To be honest the stations that are about 200KLs from arrival don't take an enormous amount of time to get to. The continual bemoaning of 90min travel time is, I assume, why the earlier poster flagged up the uniqueness of the Hutton Run - nothing else comes even close to that haul.

True, I avoid long sc journeys, but they are not terribly onerous if the payoff is worth it (it isn't usually in my opinion).

Wouldn't it diminish the game if every system could be transited in a short time? The variety adds a factor which you have to consider in determining your actions and I would not like to see this changed.

 

[Sylow]

You have a point, but a time sink isn’t the only form of achievement. It’s not even a really meaningful one when the metric is how long you’re willing to stare at a wallpaper and do nothing, so it’s pretty difficult to devalue much further.

I know what you mean. There's not much challenge in Netflix-based gameplay. Which also means in most people's eyes it's not something to take so much pride in. But there's another important aspect. "Space is big..." I leave it to you to fill in the rest of the quote from the Hitchhiker. I've played enough space games, where a solar system in the end felt like it was the size of a small city at best. In terms of game mechanics that worked perfectly fine. Everything was reachable in short time, space was crowded, things happened. Plenty of action, plenty of gameplay, which was perfectly fine for those games.

What was lacking was the feeling to really be in space. It could also just have been a big room some stars painted to black walls. Traveling times are something to contribute on this aspect. So yes, it indeed reduces the game aspect by reducing the density of action. But it adds to atmosphere, which also should not be forgotten.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

To be honest the stations that are about 200KLs from arrival don't take an enormous amount of time to get to. The continual bemoaning of 90min travel time is why the previous poster flagged up the uniqueness of the Hutton Run - nothing else comes even close to that haul.

True, I avoid long sc journeys, but they are not terribly onerous if the payoff is worth it (it isn't usually in my opinion).

Wouldn't it diminish the game if every system could be transited in a short time? The variety adds a factor which you have to consider in determining your actions and I would not like to see this changed.

The fact that it’s not usually worth it is at the crux of the point. Fast travel mechanics are often maligned because they end up with players frequently bypassing a lot of the game world, which is a shame given how much work often goes into designing and generating it.

With the current supercruise mechanic, the long travel times that most players usually can’t justify to themselves results in the same problem of a lot of the game world being neglected.

We have 400 billion star systems. The feeling of vastness would remain even if players could instant travel to any coordinate, not that I’d ever suggest that. But I would gladly trade even 30+ minutes of staring at a screen with 5-10 minutes of engaging and challenging gameplay.

The 100k+ls trips that are usually avoided by players would then become opportunities for some real gameplay that players may look forward to rather than filter out.

There’s a good deal of 200k+ls locations in the game as well, which would still take a reasonable amount of time to reach with a new travel mechanic, but would also then be achievements in their own right for players with the skill to get there.

I checked EDDB again, and there are also a lot of 400k+ls systems up to even 650k as well, so there is definitely a case for this.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I know what you mean. There's not much challenge in Netflix-based gameplay. Which also means in most people's eyes it's not something to take so much pride in. But there's another important aspect. "Space is big..." I leave it to you to fill in the rest of the quote from the Hitchhiker. I've played enough space games, where a solar system in the end felt like it was the size of a small city at best. In terms of game mechanics that worked perfectly fine. Everything was reachable in short time, space was crowded, things happened. Plenty of action, plenty of gameplay, which was perfectly fine for those games.

What was lacking was the feeling to really be in space. It could also just have been a big room some stars painted to black walls. Traveling times are something to contribute on this aspect. So yes, it indeed reduces the game aspect by reducing the density of action. But it adds to atmosphere, which also should not be forgotten.

That’s true, and I wouldn’t want that feeling of vastness to be lost, though with 400 billion star systems in the galaxy, that would be difficult to achieve if you tried.

In any case, I think a more practical compromise could be reached, and even a quarter of the current supercruise time over long distances would still be a considerable time sink for one trip in any game. When coupled with some skill based gameplay with added risks, I don’t think it would drastically diminish the feeling of vastness, while at the same time making up for the deficit in a meaningful way. I wouldn’t suggest the alternate mechanic be made usable for shorter distances.

Failing all of that, my other suggestion was to have a variety of in ship activities to fill the time, and that may make more sense if EVA is implemented.

 

[Sylow]

Failing all of that, my other suggestion was to have a variety of in ship activities to fill the time, and that may make more sense if EVA is implemented.

This would be a very interesting thing. I personally couldn't come up with anything right now, which wouldn't feel like a tedious minigame for the sake of tedium itself. But if somebody has a good idea on how to do it, i'd be all for it.

 

[Para Handy]

The fact that it’s not usually worth it is at the crux of the point. Fast travel mechanics are often maligned because they end up with players frequently bypassing a lot of the game world, which is a shame given how much work often goes into designing and generating it.

With the current supercruise mechanic, the long travel times that most players usually can’t justify to themselves results in the same problem of a lot of the game world being neglected.
.............

.. but you ignore the fact that the "onerousness" of a trip provides a deciding factor. If there were no long trips then all would be equally "weighted" in a person's decision process. Then of course someone will come up with something else to moan about and propose another convoluted piece of nonsense and we will have another "flavour of the month".

I'm sorry but I really think all of these sort of suggestions are at variance with what I want in the game and would devalue it in my opinion.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

.. but you ignore the fact that the "onerousness" of a trip provides a deciding factor. If there were no long trips then all would be equally "weighted" in a person's decision process. Then of course someone will come up with something else to moan about and propose another convoluted piece of nonsense and we will have another "flavour of the month".

I'm sorry but I really think all of these sort of suggestions are at variance with what I want in the game and would devalue it in my opinion.

With the category of mechanic being suggested, the skill requirement, high risk, and added costs would provide a choice involving an additional deciding factor, which if done right would have more value than a deliberate absence of gameplay for over half an hour. Trips to distant locations would still take a considerable amount of time, but no longer a ridiculous amount of time, all for a trip that’s not often worth it.

Honestly, when players are usually always trying to target locations as close to the primary star as possible if they can help it, and so are rarely going out to the very distant spots, then the proposed type of mechanic is not really going to be competition for the existing one, as without it players are mostly trying to avoid the long distance treks for little benefit.

So realistically, the choice is not really going to be between travelling far in supercruise or with the new mechanic, but rather travelling to those locations with the new mechanic or not at all in most cases. There’d be little to nothing lost, all things considered.

 

[Chaparral]

All because players like you don't want to use some of the features of the game. Sorry, the Fault lies with you and only you. A little use of the Galaxy map and system map. You would save your self-time and effort.

Completely ignoring the point. Avoiding systems with long travel times is not the issue.
The issue is the mechanic of long travel times. The SC process could be more engaging in the same way core mining or the fss made those aspects of the GAME more interesting. Sitting and waiting is the absolute worst and laziest mechanic possible.

 

[Chaparral]

.. but you ignore the fact that the "onerousness" of a trip provides a deciding factor. If there were no long trips then all would be equally "weighted" in a person's decision process. Then of course someone will come up with something else to moan about and propose another convoluted piece of nonsense and we will have another "flavour of the month".

I'm sorry but I really think all of these sort of suggestions are at variance with what I want in the game and would devalue it in my opinion.

How often do you do a 30 minute supercruise? Is the game devalued if you don't access the current mechanic? Is there a problem with wanting game improvements (mining, exploration, gear balancing, engineering mat storage improvements, etc. etc.)?