Harmless restricted systems will be ganked to death

[Kaocraft]

Frontier's solution to improve the survivability of new players will still allow for (a reduced frequency of) bad things to happen, therefore it is a terrible idea which will CAUSE bad things to happen.

Am I summarizing your lunatic logic correctly, OP?

Remember: if even one person throws a single glass bottle into a garbage can, the existence of recycling programs is forever pointless.

 

[Kaocraft]

Deleted because double post

 

[Captain Willard]

New players already get that, as they're confined to solo mode until they've made at least one jump.

New players can also already get that by also confining themselves to solo mode until they understand the controls of the ship. Entering open mode before coming to that understanding is a choice a player makes. A player can also choose to leave the safety of a starter area long before they've come to this understanding. Therefore, nothing changes. Nothing. Not one thing.

I've been here since long BEFORE release, as an alpha/beta backer. How long you've been playing is not a qualifier for your points, and is as irrelevant to this discussion as how long I've been playing. I don't know why you'd think this would mean anything to me, but it doesn't.

Correct. How long you have been playing means zero. Mr playing before release and is irrelevant. LOL I remember starting a thread early on for all new players to start in solo until they learned the game. It was banned and I got a no no for suggesting it. No one cares if you care or don't. Sorry Voidwalker. Your posts fail.

 

[voidwalker]

Correct. How long you have been playing means zero. Mr playing before release and is irrelevant. LOL I remember starting a thread early on for all new players to start in solo until they learned the game. It was banned and I got a no no for suggesting it. No one cares if you care or don't. Sorry Voidwalker. Your posts fail.

My posts made a point. Your ignorance of that point, intentional or otherwise, is not my failure.

 

[voidwalker]

While I agree with almost everying you said, I think ED has something special that makes you feel proud when you can actually see you are making progress, taking steps on the road to Elite CMDR.
That lets even the worst of ragequitters accept failures which can be explained, after the initial rage, as player's error.

But while failures can be compensated, continuously being ganked as soon as you start and lack of meaningful interaction with other players cannot.

You don't get it.

First of all, how many new players are actually 'continuously being ganked'? Where's the data on that, because I'm in and out of Eravate quite frequently looking for new players to recruit to 0th Fleet and I'm just not seeing it. I see lots of new players. I'm not seeing the gankers.

Secondly, as soon as a player makes their first jump, they're able to head into open. They still have a CHOICE to stay in solo whilst they learn. Despite that choice, some people are going to quit.

Because they were ALWAYS going to quit, whether they got ganked, by a player or NPC, or they just don't like the game. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people out there trying all kinds of games that just aren't for them, and the majority of people who try most games won't play them for very long. Elite is a particularly niche title, as well, which means an even lower proportion of people trying it out are going to stick around. That's not because there's anything wrong with the game.

It's because they'd rather be playing chess, but Elite is offering checkers.

Do you understand?

Players don't lack the opportunity to make progress. They have solo mode, and private groups, to avoid other players. Always have, always will, and now, with chat spanning all modes (solo, private, and open), it's even less restrictive, because no one is being barricaded out of the social experience because if you meet new people, you can friend them and organise to fly with them in any mode you want to, and any part of the galaxy you choose.

Giving the game 'safe spots' achieves nothing. Literally nothing. As soon as you jump out of the safe spots, you're open season, and regardless of progress, people who were always going to quit the moment someone shoots at them are still going to quit. And even in the safe zones, the NPCs are still going to shoot at them too, AFAIK.

It achieves nothing, but it also bars nothing, so as far as I'm concerned, it's like swapping a lunch box for a lunch bag. Nothing has changed.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

While I think the beginner spots could provide more than nothing, Voidwalker is making an excellent point here. Like he said, Elite is niche as hell.

When you love it? You love it.

 

[Jaggid Edje]

I'm a relatively new player (getting close to hitting 6th week), and I guess I partly don't understand the reason for the limited-access starter systems.

When I was new to the game, not that long ago, I didn't have a single ganker-interaction in the starting areas. The only other real persons I saw were a handful of other new players and the closest thing to PvP combat I saw in that first few days was a few times when someone asked in Local, "1v1 anyone?"

The first time I was interdicted I admit it did freak me out, and I thought it was another player....turns out it was an NPC, I just didn't know how to tell the difference yet. Which makes me wonder, how many complaints about being 'ganked' presented by a brand new player are the same as my own experience? The one time in my first week that another real player did interdict me was about 5 days in, and he roleplayed it really well as a pirate rather than just gank me for no reason. I managed to BSR away.

One thing I will say though, to folks who disagree with this approach and say that the option for solo or private group should be enough for new players. That takes away the opportunity for new players to meet and interact with each other in a positive, friendly way....which is something most new players to a multiplayer game want to do.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

I've no idea as to how to write code or program games. But wouldn't have been easier to simply cause a beginner to stay in "SOLO" until such time as they have ascertain a degree of sufficiency at playing the game. I mean everyone normally starts according to the "Pilot Federation" as a "Harmless" pilot, and after ascertaining some experience at the game, gets bumped up to "Mostly Harmless" and eventually a "Novice" etc. etc. etc. Having "Open" of limits to "Harmless" and even "Mostly Harmless" and possibly even "Novice" pilots would causing them to play only in "SOLO", thus would and should give a pilot significant time to learn the basics of staying alive as well as making cr's.

 

[Jaggid Edje]

I've no idea as to how to write code or program games. But wouldn't have been easier to simply cause a beginner to stay in "SOLO" until such time as they have ascertain a degree of sufficiency at playing the game. I mean everyone normally starts according to the "Pilot Federation" as a "Harmless" pilot, and after ascertaining some experience at the game, gets bumped up to "Mostly Harmless" and eventually a "Novice" etc. etc. etc. Having "Open" of limits to "Harmless" and even "Mostly Harmless" and possibly even "Novice" pilots would causing them to play only in "SOLO", thus would and should give a pilot significant time to learn the basics of staying alive as well as making cr's.

New player here, so my perspective might help enlighten you. I just posted a very good reason for not forcing new players into Solo, what I said was:

"One thing I will say though, to folks who disagree with this approach and say that the option for solo or private group should be enough for new players. That takes away the opportunity for new players to meet and interact with each other in a positive, friendly way....which is something most new players to a multiplayer game want to do. "

You may not be a social person, but a lot of folks who play online games are and interaction with other new players is a very important part of the new player experience for them. To be honest, I would be willing to bet that this is one of the reasons for a high attrition rate of new players to this game. The Galaxy is so dam big you can go a long time without seeing another real person, and for many, that is likely a turn off.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

True. I also do not see the point of these starter system. As you say they could provide more than nothing, more quitters.

Your positive attitude is an inspiration to us all.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I'm a relatively new player (getting close to hitting 6th week), and I guess I partly don't understand the reason for the limited-access starter systems.

When I was new to the game, not that long ago, I didn't have a single ganker-interaction in the starting areas. The only other real persons I saw were a handful of other new players and the closest thing to PvP combat I saw in that first few days was a few times when someone asked in Local, "1v1 anyone?"

The first time I was interdicted I admit it did freak me out, and I thought it was another player....turns out it was an NPC, I just didn't know how to tell the difference yet. Which makes me wonder, how many complaints about being 'ganked' presented by a brand new player are the same as my own experience? The one time in my first week that another real player did interdict me was about 5 days in, and he roleplayed it really well as a pirate rather than just gank me for no reason. I managed to BSR away.

One thing I will say though, to folks who disagree with this approach and say that the option for solo or private group should be enough for new players. That takes away the opportunity for new players to meet and interact with each other in a positive, friendly way....which is something most new players to a multiplayer game want to do.

Thank you for such a well written, insightful post.

It makes me think that we really need to wait and see what these starter systems look like in the context of all the other changes. Take the Pilot's Handbook, for instance. What will that contain? How will it play into the rest of the systems?

 

[voidwalker]

woahwoah hold your horses with that tone.

I stopped there.

There was no tone.

There is no discernible tone in text conversation, and I choose my words very carefully. I only ever say what I mean, and exactly what I mean.

There is nothing wrong with not getting it. That's why I was happy to explain it to you with nothing but perfectly civilised language. If you're taking it personally, then I can only suggest you don't. I'm just talking straight. Get used to it, because I won't be changing any time soon.

Like it or not, there are people that are going to try a game, not like it, and move on. There are people that are going to try a game expecting one thing, get something else entirely, and move on. That's the reality of every game that has ever existed, including this one. Whether you believe it or not, it's a fact that doesn't require belief that there are always going to be people who are going to quit no matter what you do. And this change doesn't solve any problems, nor does it create any new ones, and I've explained exactly why and how.

I have, however, just realised one concern. That these 'starter systems' will be systems that people STAY in permanently, because there's no reason to go anywhere else. If that's what happens, then these starter systems are, indeed, going to do more harm to the game than good.

 

[voidwalker]

New player here, so my perspective might help enlighten you. I just posted a very good reason for not forcing new players into Solo, what I said was:

"One thing I will say though, to folks who disagree with this approach and say that the option for solo or private group should be enough for new players. That takes away the opportunity for new players to meet and interact with each other in a positive, friendly way....which is something most new players to a multiplayer game want to do. "

You may not be a social person, but a lot of folks who play online games are and interaction with other new players is a very important part of the new player experience for them. To be honest, I would be willing to bet that this is one of the reasons for a high attrition rate of new players to this game. The Galaxy is so dam big you can go a long time without seeing another real person, and for many, that is likely a turn off.

Your concerns are mooted by the fact that system chat now crosses the mode boundaries completely, which means you can socialise just fine from solo mode.

 

[Jaggid Edje]

....
I have, however, just realised one concern. That these 'starter systems' will be systems that people STAY in permanently, because there's no reason to go anywhere else. If that's what happens, then these starter systems are, indeed, going to do more harm to the game than good.

Plenty of reasons to go beyond the starter systems once you are familiar with the game. I'll list a few, being the things that got me to range farther and farther from where I started over the past month:
1. Outfitting choices.
2. Ship discounts.
3. Engineers
4. Guardian technology
5. Because exploring is fun.
6. Engineers

And that's just the short list....I could go on.
P.S. I know I listed Engineers twice, but they have been a very big incentive for me to go places so I thought they deserved it

There's no chance in heck that a new player that actually is enjoying the game is not going to stray farther out into the galaxy.

Your concerns are mooted by the fact that system chat now crosses the mode boundaries completely, which means you can socialise just fine from solo mode.

You presume that just chat is all social people are looking for. Take the 1v1 offer that I saw a few times when I was new. Can't accept that offer and test my chops against the persons who asked through chat message servers. There is more to being social than just text chatting with people.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Folks could roleplay pretty interesting reasons for staying in the starter systems. Interesting creative possibilities there! I do agree most will want to venture out. I've heard it said humans got the wanderlust pretty hard.

 

[Old Duck]

Thinking about the thread I just replied to, all griefers should just stay in ShinDez, because with the credit inflation and now auto-everything (I hate the former but actually love the latter), there will be more noobs in Shinrarta than there will be in the starter systems! Better yet, they'll all be flying sitting in autopiloted Cutters!

This game is going to turn me into a griefer yet

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Thinking about the thread I just replied to, all griefers should just stay in ShinDez, because with the credit inflation and now auto-everything (I hate the former but actually love the latter), there will be more noobs in Shinrarta than there will be in the starter systems! Better yet, they'll all be flying sitting in autopiloted Cutters!

This game is going to turn me into a griefer yet

Whale hunting is a lot more fun too.

Or, that's what my friends tell me...?

 

[voidwalker]

Plenty of reasons to go beyond the starter systems once you are familiar with the game. I'll list a few, being the things that got me to range farther and farther from where I started over the past month:
1. Outfitting choices.
2. Ship discounts.
3. Engineers
4. Guardian technology
5. Because exploring is fun.
6. Engineers

And that's just the short list....I could go on.
P.S. I know I listed Engineers twice, but they have been a very big incentive for me to go places so I thought they deserved it

There's no chance in heck that a new player that actually is enjoying the game is not going to stray farther out into the galaxy.

You presume that just chat is all social people are looking for. Take the 1v1 offer that I saw a few times when I was new. Can't accept that offer and test my chops against the persons who asked through chat message servers. There is more to being social than just text chatting with people.

I don't presume anything. There's nothing stopping you from making friends in chat, and then flying with them in a private group. Nothing at all.

And for the record, none of the reasons for leaving the starter systems that you listed are anything that players NEED to do to enjoy the game.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

New player here, so my perspective might help enlighten you. I just posted a very good reason for not forcing new players into Solo, what I said was:

"One thing I will say though, to folks who disagree with this approach and say that the option for solo or private group should be enough for new players. That takes away the opportunity for new players to meet and interact with each other in a positive, friendly way....which is something most new players to a multiplayer game want to do. "

You may not be a social person, but a lot of folks who play online games are and interaction with other new players is a very important part of the new player experience for them. To be honest, I would be willing to bet that this is one of the reasons for a high attrition rate of new players to this game. The Galaxy is so dam big you can go a long time without seeing another real person, and for many, that is likely a turn off.

I agree to a point, though I can't speak for PC's, I've only played on a PS4 and now an Xbox, but I'd have to state that this forum and possible Reddit, is more helpful to the beginner as well as the veteran than playing in open is. Because of internet connections, the difference in up and down load speeds and latency (ping rate). One can't communicate with other player's in a timely manner. My latency is so bad (150), that I never get memo's of any kind in a sufficient time to do anything about it. I've literally dropped passenger's at station's and left the station and in route to somewhere else, when I've received a "Please source me" something plea from the passenger who is no longer on my ship. I've fought off interdiction's and made it to the station's instance before ever getting any notice of pending interdiction(s). My personal internet connection can't handle a third player while in open at Dav's Hope. My son who lives in the U.S.A and plays on an Xbox, has a fiber optic connection loves playing in open and mixing it up with other player's on occasion, but then he has a ping rate of only 20.

 

[voidwalker]

When you are discussing and exchanging opinions with another person, I suggest you choose your words better then to avoid misunderstandings. If you feel like I did not understand your point, instead of saying "you don't get it" you might try with a friendlier "I have a different opinion than yours or you may have misinterpreted my point". Because your tone implies I did not understand anything and you are giving me the ultimate knowledge. But in the end, you are guessing based on your experience exactly as I am doing.

There is a way to raise the probability that more people will stay. To me, you are just giving up.

I suggest that I don't care what you think about the presentation of my points. If I've broken the forum's rules, feel free to report me for that transgression. If you have nothing more than a personal problem, then I suggest it is your problem, and yours alone, and no one is obliged to give one seventeenth of a crap about your personal problems. Address the points, and get passed your sense of self-importance, because that's the only reason I can think of that would cause you to feel like I've talked down to you in my previous posts. I'm talking down to you now because like for like - you're talking down to me, assuming yourself a moral superior in regards to how I 'exchange opinions'. I don't care what you think of how I exchange opinions. I really don't. I hope that clears things up for you, and we can get back on topic.