Allow use of pre 3.3 Advanced Discovery Scanner

[Aussiedroid]

System map should appear on honk IMO. Using the FSS in a previously discovered system works exactly how it should, but an unexplored one shows nothing on the map. Using the FSS to determine the makeup of the system is far less efficient and generally means I ignore exploring it. Too much zooming and disorientation.

This is also the reason why I am not doing any more deep space exploration. Just can't stand the time sink and broken flow of the exploration mechanics now.

AD

 

[Burke]

This is also the reason why I am not doing any more deep space exploration. Just can't stand the time sink and broken flow of the exploration mechanics now.

Yep, thats pretty much the effect its had on more then one deep space explorer.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

You know that's a blatant lie, don't you. Most FSS (in its current form) advocates are fine with an exclusive or solution, but not both on the same ship and at the same time. You are the one rejecting any form of compromise, not the others.

The fact is PC, it shouldn't be a them and us, that's a bad thing.
I don't believe I've ever stated that I want the FSS gone and the ADS returned, a compromise would be for me to have as many tools as I had room for on my ship and were ED to give us the ADS in a far reduced (say, black dots and no stats) form I'd happily fit and use both to heighten my enjoyment of the game, moving into a system without slowing and honking with the reduced function ADS would allow me to make my decision to go or stay faster than the FSS would and the FSS would allow me to scan the whole system faster than the ADS would... but most importantly I would have a choice whether to fly out to scan and bomb a planet or to sit still and do it from a distance... I would earn no more money that someone with just the FSS I would simply enjoy my game more than I do now... that is why I don't play as much as I used to and I'm unlikely to jump in for further expansions... unless they are Fantastic.

So, nope, I refute your claim that I would not accept a compromise... I am mister compromise.

 

[Burke]

Skip i gave you the like for a good post, but i need to see colours. I used to honk and look at that system map and i knew from the map which planets i wanted to land on. Almost like i used it to plan my trip into the system. Also rare gas giants.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

We all have different views and desires, the black dots would allow me to see if the system is full or empty in a matter of seconds while my FSD spools up, if you want colours to help you pick what you want and where you want to go I have no objection...really, despite some previous tongue-in-cheek posts about cherry pickers, in fact this new system stamping my name on everything I look at has made me just that, a shame really because prior to the FSS introduction I was a prideful all or nothing Explorer.
I would also like to have a use for the Orrery map where we could shift click to plot a route without messing about.

 

[lenna]

Fact is, that the presence of the old ADS functionality undermines this minigame

How? Because it gives a player options to play their way rather than being forced to engage in the mini-game? Sorry, but that is not anything but objective fact.

The map is not the most valuable piece of information, the body details are (and they have always required more than just the honk) - the map only has operational value, no tangible value. The presence of the ADS replacement as proposed by this thread would objectively NOT undermine the mini-game - it merely would give individuals an "optional" alternative to having to engage with it.

As has been pointed out already, the FSS does have some advantages but the quality of the mechanics is poor to non-existent. I know FD have gone to a lot of effort to try to replicate real world radio telescope mechanics but they have failed to consider the implications of their implementation for anyone with less than perfect hearing. That is all besides the point though...

The simple fact of the matter is that the ADS replacement as proposed in this thread would merely provide gameplay options that should have been preserved when they introduced the FSS in the first place.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

..... but they have failed to consider the implications of their implementation for anyone with less than perfect hearing. That is all besides the point though...

Funny that, I have terrible tinnitus sometimes (up to 4 different sounds) and it's something I hadn't considered... it does affect me in game but I just ignore it until I can't... a bit like being in a pub for a long time and you suddenly realise that you're having to shout and still can't hear what you're actually saying.

 

[lenna]

I don't need to give an objective reason as it all subjective opinions.

Not quite - but this ground has been gone over enough times already.

The fact of the matter is that there is not a single objective reason that the spiritual replacement for the ADS as proposed by this thread should be mutually exclusive with respect to access to the FSS.

 

[Faded Glory]

Most FSS (in its current form) advocates are fine with an exclusive or solution, but not both on the same ship and at the same time. You are the one rejecting any form of compromise, not the others.

Honestly picommander, most people who like the FSS say they don't care whether the ADS comes back in any form whatsoever, so long as 1) the FSS is still available as is, and / or 2) they aren't forced to have the ADS system map reveal.

In the current debate hardly anybody insists that they should be entirely separate, and the only reason (that I can see) for demanding that is that they find the FSS difficult to use (which it isn't) and think that the ADS is somehow easier.

In my counting, two or three people reject the compromise (which is to have the ADS as an optional module that you can use or not), and they don't make compelling reasons for that stubbornness. The idea that somehow being able to scan bodies from a distance is only granted as a reward for being able to read the spectrum in the FSS is bonkers. The spectrum ain't difficult to read.

Personally, I do think that the payoff of being able to scan bodies at a distance should be the ability to use the FSS to locate those bodies - but that isn't difficult either. Any player who would rather target a body from the system map, align their ship in SC with said body, throttle to zero, open the FSS, tune the spectrum to said body and then scan it is welcome to do that IMO, it would surely take far longer than just finding it using the FSS.

 

[lenna]

Funny that, I have terrible tinnitus sometimes (up to 4 different sounds) and it's something I hadn't considered... it does affect me in game but I just ignore it until I can't... a bit like being in a pub for a long time and you suddenly realise that you're having to shout and still can't hear what you're actually saying.

Tinnitus can be quite debilitating (if you have a severe attack of it) and there is nothing that can be done to mitigate the audio impact unfortunately. All you can do is turn up the volume of whatever you are trying to listen to which in turn could make the tinnitus worse in the long run.

FD's argument about the system being "learnable" was based purely on the basis of the audio feedback. I raised my concerns during the Beta over their lack of consideration regarding those that may have issues with the audio component - for whatever reason - but unfortunately this has been on the most part ignored.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

If you would stop ignoring what I've said yet again you would recognize I'm talking about the reward aspect of the local map that you want for free. I'll just leave it that way, our both conceptions of solid gameplay are simply too incompatible. There's nothing another such conversation could put to an end. That said, nothing new here, nothing to see, just wasting our time. I hate repetitions, good luck on your crusade but keep in mind you'll need to convince quite other people than me, last not least the devs themselves but also those that will be very vocal once it would look like your wish comes through. Something I strongly doubt.

Having options in a game is OK.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

No. It's the highway to most horrible game design 3.0 and already way too prominent in ED. Chess should ring a bell to all wannabe and true game designer: Only the queen has the option to move like any other piece (besides the knight), anything else is unique and that's for a reason. This optionalitis in ED and many other modern MMOs makes me sick, but then these games are apparently not made with gamers like me in mind. To me it's just a lazy and most cheapest way to get rid of all responsibility to create decent and sustainable gameplay. Meanwhile it's too late to change this sick development as most gamers are already used to this nonsense and even require it now.

Well then why are you here? It's quite clear that ED isn't your cup of tea.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

That my friend is a very long story...
And be assured I'll be still here when you've long left the game (until I die sooner than you, which is quite possible).

I have left the game already, when I say I'm going to act and vote with money, I mean it. But hey, you can be a proud veteran of ED, go and tell that to your friends and family, they'll surely care.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

And then YOU ask me what I am doing here? What a clown... LOL

Discussing is fun, and I might return if the ADS is back. Besides, I don't complain about the forums, you complain about the game.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Doesn't mean I won't love the game, but that to explain would be the too long story, not really appropriate for this thread that only covers a certain aspect of the game.
Btw, while we are chatting I'm actively playing the game while you are talking out of the blue and hoping for something that never will come...

You don't know that.

 

[Trekari]

How? Because it gives a player options to play their way rather than being forced to engage in the mini-game? Sorry, but that is not anything but objective fact.

Nothing about that statement is fact. Leaving the old ADS in would IN FACT undermine those with the FSS, because you can jump and honk faster with ADS than FSS. Those with the ADS could therefore explore more systems via honking than someone with the FSS in the same amount of time.

That's a fact.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Nothing about that statement is fact. Leaving the old ADS in would IN FACT undermine those with the FSS, because you can jump and honk faster with ADS than FSS. Those with the ADS could therefore explore more systems via honking than someone with the FSS in the same amount of time.

That's a fact.

Firstly, you're confusing 'exploring' with 'visiting'.
Secondly, you seem to be operating under the assumption that exploration is in some way a competitive activity.
Thirdly, if you think the ADS is more powerful than the FSS then you'd be perfectly at liberty to fit one yourself.

However, the idea that the ADS is in any way more powerful than the FSS has been shown to be garbage many times in these discussions.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

So what? In a thread full of wild guessings... When I'm frequently reading how players would come back in droves once the ADS would be back in game (mostly from those chaps who have stopped playing and mentally count themselves as 10 at least, another comedy ), I can't resist to retaliate that at least 3 times the numbers would leave if FD would cave in. What now.

Psss, do you really think people would leave because FD implemented a module they didn't like? Look what happened with the autopilot, there where complains but nobody claims to have quitted because it's bloody silly.

 

[Trekari]

Firstly, you're confusing 'exploring' with 'visiting'.
Secondly, you seem to be operating under the assumption that exploration is in some way a competitive activity.
Thirdly, if you think the ADS is more powerful than the FSS then you'd be perfectly at liberty to fit one yourself.

However, the idea that the ADS is in any way more powerful than the FSS has been shown to be garbage many times in these discussions.

1) No, I'm not.
2) You're confused by your assumption that it cannot be. Two people exploring the same area at the same time can easily interfere with Discoveries, particularly if one can do so more quickly that another.
3) You're more than welcome to play with the game mechanics as they are now. Enjoy your FSS - the ADS isn't coming back.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Nothing about that statement is fact. Leaving the old ADS in would IN FACT undermine those with the FSS, because you can jump and honk faster with ADS than FSS. Those with the ADS could therefore explore more systems via honking than someone with the FSS in the same amount of time.

That's a fact.

Hardly, the ADS will only give you the basic info of the system, considering how popular it is nowadays to scan everything, the flow of exploration won't be changed significantly, the only ones who will truly benefit will be the ones looking for oddities not detectable by the FSS before a full scan, for example, weird geography, diffrent orbital planes, tiny or huge landables, pink gas giants, etc. Also, exploration is not a competition, there are way way too many systems to claim that there's any real pressure to hog as much as you can, only in very specific things such as geographical records (furtherst north, south, east, west, up & down) is there a significant competition although it's mostly dead for the first 4.