Player affecting factions even in Pvt and Solo

[Robert Maynard]

What you just wrote actually makes no sense with what I wrote...

Ok then....

.... it's not a game where PvP is required, therefore having all players (regardless of game mode) affect the single shared galaxy state is a design feature, not a problem....

 

[Toruide]

miss post could you remove it plz

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

It makes no sense allowing PG and solo having any influence on BGS for everyone... I mean where is the logic where you can basically change everyone's galaxy while playing alone or in a PG? I can understand people want to play alone, or just don't want to PvP, that's fine. If you don't want interactions, don't interact, that means not changing someone else's(who's not in your group) galaxy.

There are quite a few problems with ED, some bugs, but this is understandable. But this issue isn't, and it's killing gameplay for many player factions.

What you just wrote actually makes no sense with what I wrote...

This isn't anyone's galaxy. It's a background simulation. It was here first and doesn't owe you anything.

In fact, Elite's context is supported by this. It's a brutal, uncaring dystopia where the best you can hope for is a sandcastle.

 

[darkseer]

It makes no sense allowing PG and solo having any influence on BGS for everyone... I mean where is the logic where you can basically change everyone's galaxy while playing alone or in a PG? I can understand people want to play alone, or just don't want to PvP, that's fine. If you don't want interactions, don't interact, that means not changing someone else's(who's not in your group) galaxy.

There are quite a few problems with ED, some bugs, but this is understandable. But this issue isn't, and it's killing gameplay for many player factions.

and why should open be able to affect solo and pg players bgs if they cannot affect opens bgs unless your trying to advocate that all the modes should be completely separate which is and interesting idea but wont work since a player can swap on the fly and all the pilot data carries over. so the only way to remotely make it work is to separate the pilot data ie open can not be taken to solo and solo cannot be taken to open but this is a horrible idea and would kill the game.

the average player will not really have a huge impact on the bgs and the players that are actively trying to manipulate it will just fly solo land then switch to open. this was the same stunt that was used when a bunch of aisling duval supporters when crazy and tried to blockade a system and ended up ganking a bunch on innocent aisling duval traders when trying to stop a system from being primed.

 

[The Replicated Man]

It is incorrect that players playing Solo and Private can alter the balance of Factions in a system.

This way people are not inactivated to play OPEN. This is a pity of course because one of the key performance of a Multi Mass Player Game is the chance of interacting with other players.

This is a major drawback of this game which I hope the developers team will pick up.

Thanks,

One step at a time. Most of us are aware it's a rather big issue, but I am fairly sure FDEV are starting with Powerplay, which was designed to give players a reason to pvp. There was talk awhile ago about making Powerplay open only but FDEV hasn't commented on it in a good while.

Eventually it would be nice to see Open only BGS but I doubt that would happen. If anything FDEV should give players an incentive to play in open rather than solo. It's a multiplayer game after all.

 

[darkseer]

One step at a time. Most of us are aware it's a rather big issue, but I am fairly sure FDEV are starting with Powerplay, which was designed to give players a reason to pvp. There was talk awhile ago about making Powerplay open only but FDEV hasn't commented on it in a good while.

first off powerpowerplay was not meant to give players a reason to pvp power play made to try and give players a group to rally behind that both combat players and cargo players could interact and have a visible effect on. the fact that powerplay launched with the only way for a faction to take a system is for said system to be primed by cargo pilots disproves your whole "designed to give players a reason to pvp" comment.
and here a question that i asked of exploited what gives open the right to have power over private/solo?
this game was funded with the idea of there being a solo mode it was supposed to be offline but that was not possible so it was turned into solo. you cant just revoke the rights of people that want to fly solo and have an impact on the game just because you want to be able to gank players.

 

[Robert Maynard]

this game was funded with the idea of there being a solo mode it was supposed to be offline but that was not possible so it was turned into solo. you cant just revoke the rights of people that want to fly solo and have an impact on the game just because you want to be able to gank players.

Regarding when each mode came into existence in the design, the three game modes and single shared galaxy state were announced at the beginning of the Kickstarter - Offline mode was added to the scope later and subsequently cancelled.

Solo was never meant to be an offline mode (Offline mode would have offered that, if it had been delivered).

 

[darkseer]

Regarding when each mode came into existence in the design, the three game modes and single shared galaxy state were announced at the beginning of the Kickstarter - Offline mode was added to the scope later and subsequently cancelled.

Solo was never meant to be an offline mode (Offline mode would have offered that, if it had been delivered).

was not meaning to say it was meant to be sorry for the confusion the point i was trying to make was that the game was kickstarted with the idea of solo mode and people wanted this. and the reason I was bringing this up was at the start of the game the mantra from gankers was its called dangerous its in the name don't like it go private/solo to all the cargo pilots they ganked. fast forward and now gankers want to take content away from private/solo under a shady " its would be good for the game", but is a clear attempt to try to force people back in open so that they can be ganked.

 

[Jockey79]

It's a brutal, uncaring dystopia where the best you can hope for is a sandcastle.

This is now my favourite description of the game, ever.
The last bit should be the games tag line;

Elite: Dangerous
The best you can hope for is a sandcastle.

 

[Arguendo]

first off powerpowerplay was not meant to give players a reason to pvp power play made to try and give players a group to rally behind that both combat players and cargo players could interact and have a visible effect on. the fact that powerplay launched with the only way for a faction to take a system is for said system to be primed by cargo pilots disproves your whole "designed to give players a reason to pvp" comment.

Sandro's post concerning Powerplay changes in the Focused Feedback thread appears to contradict the above statement:

Powerplay is fundamentally about consensual player versus player conflict. We think that pretty much all of the systems and rules would benefit from being played out in Open only, as it would dramatically increase the chance of meeting other pledged players and being able to directly affect the outcomes of power struggles.

Note: My emphasis in bold

 

[Robert Maynard]

Note: My emphasis in bold

Indeed - and, as implemented, it is doubly consensual - it is neither compulsory nor does one require to play with other players who might engage in PvP.

 

[Arguendo]

Indeed - and, as implemented, it is doubly consensual - it is neither compulsory nor does one require to play with other players who might engage in PvP.

Sure it is, but from Sandro's statement, it appears that FDev's vision is direct player versus player as opposed to indirect which the BGS provides.
I am not debating whether it's consensual or not, but whether it is meant for PvP (ie. Player versus Player) conflicts. Powerplay is exactly that, whether it's done in Open, PGs or Solo. If we're talking about pew pew and only combat PvP, that's a different story. Although it does appear that FDev's vision wants this to be the means to oppose the players supporting the other powers, again unlike BGS which will always be entirely indirect.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Sure it is, but from Sandro's statement, it appears that FDev's vision is direct player versus player as opposed to indirect which the BGS provides.
I am not debating whether it's consensual or not, but whether it is meant for PvP (ie. Player versus Player) conflicts. Powerplay is exactly that, whether it's done in Open, PGs or Solo. If we're talking about pew pew and only combat PvP, that's a different story. Although it does appear that FDev's vision wants this to be the means to oppose the players supporting the other powers, again unlike BGS which will always be entirely indirect.

The use of "direct" indicates that he was talking about "in the same instance combat". It appears that Frontier might be considering changing their original position on Powerplay and offering it up as the "meaningful PvP feature" (i.e. unable to be affect by players in modes other than Open) of the game.

I use "might" simply because Sandro also said:

Note that this is not a fait accompli, just something we’re investigating.

.... and when Will mentioned Powerplay recently, his phrasing was, in my opinion, quite careful (i.e. only the first Flash Topic and only some of the proposals):

Powerplay
We hear your concerns and feedback on Powerplay in and outside of this thread. We'll be evaluating and looking into some of the proposed solutions Sandro detailed in his post here. This is an on-going investigation and nothing is confirmed at the moment, but rest assured that we will let you know when we have updates regarding this.

We'll see, in time, which of Sandro's proposed solutions make the cut.

 

[Arguendo]

The use of "direct" indicates that he was talking about "in the same instance combat". It appears that Frontier might be considering changing their original position on Powerplay and offering it up as the "meaningful PvP feature" (i.e. unable to be affect by players in modes other than Open) of the game.

We'll see, in time, which of Sandro's proposed solutions make the cut.

Agreed. The game is seriously lacking genuine PvP content imho, and this may be FDev's way of creating some. Players are already doing this on their own, especially with PP, but the game itself isn't catering to this section of players by any means. Whether the loudest voices about how they "absolutely will do Powerplay if it becomes Open Only" actually do that if it happens...well that is another debate alltogether

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

This is now my favourite description of the game, ever.
The last bit should be the games tag line;

Elite: Dangerous
The best you can hope for is a sandcastle.

Haha! Really happy to hear that.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Agreed. The game is seriously lacking genuine PvP content imho, and this may be FDev's way of creating some. Players are already doing this on their own, especially with PP, but the game itself isn't catering to this section of players by any means. Whether the loudest voices about how they "absolutely will do Powerplay if it becomes Open Only" actually do that if it happens...well that is another debate alltogether

Indeed - however it's not a game that requires any player to engage in PvP to engage in any game feature (apart from CQC/Arena)

PvP content, on the other hand, would seem to require any player engaged in it to engage in PvP - which seems to be at odds with Frontier's approach to players' access to features in their game.

 

[Rampant]

What follows comes from a former Open zealot. I once thought as you did.

The modes system, and the effect it has on the BGS, is fundamentally baked into the vision of the game. While FDEV could change it, the likelihood of it is extremely low.

On the bright side, the more experience you get with the game and playing the BGS you'll find this isn't really that big of a problem. There are all kinds of ways to oppose your foes - no matter what mode they play in!

Well said - and I'm impressed that an Open zealot can "lower" themselves to write as such, so I salute you...

What normally gets presented from the Open crowd is that the ONLY METHOD that they WANT to oppose other players doing the BGS thing is to meet them with PvP combat, and that PvP combat being not an option in this case - that somehow makes the game "unbalanced". (Which deliberately ignores that the optimum method to fight a BGS "manoeuvre" is to oppose that manoeuvre by playing the BGS...)


All the best

Mark H

 

[Rampant]

It makes no sense allowing PG and solo having any influence on BGS for everyone... I mean where is the logic where you can basically change everyone's galaxy while playing alone or in a PG? I can understand people want to play alone, or just don't want to PvP, that's fine. If you don't want interactions, don't interact, that means not changing someone else's(who's not in your group) galaxy.

There are quite a few problems with ED, some bugs, but this is understandable. But this issue isn't, and it's killing gameplay for many player factions.

So can I ask if this is a good summary of your mindset:

- you don't want other players that you are not able to "meet directly" in the game from altering "your" galaxy?

would that be a fair analysis?



Have you ever put the shoe on the other foot?

Here's my extended analysis, so you might want to correct me if I'm totally wrong on this conclusion:

- You, as an Open player, see no problem that the gameplay that you participate in changes the galaxy for everyone else? Including solo and PG players?

Doesn't that strike you as hypocritical at all?


That isn't meant to be a personal attack - just an observation of the post you wrote, that is all.

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[darkseer]

Sure it is, but from Sandro's statement, it appears that FDev's vision is direct player versus player as opposed to indirect which the BGS provides.

ok im gonna says something that will probably some people off sandro is just a man and his word is not law. just because he has a vision does not mean that this is fdevs vision. powerplay was released in 2015 and uses pve gameplay. (priming and fortifying etc)

 

[Drelthar]

sando has worked with fdev since 2008 power play was launched back in 2005.

Huh... I could have sworn I saw him on live streams talking about how cool powerplay was going to be, before it was launched. Maybe I was thinking of someone else. He is a pretty unique character though, so that would be odd.