Hacker forum and what I learned

You are grossly over-generalizing. Once you are done playing a game normally, have exhausted all of the challenge and accomplishments you can out of it and are just plain bored with it, cheats, trainers, and whatnot can be fun to fool around with to extend the game's entertainment value for a little longer.

I was a huge fan of the original Privateer, way back in the ... i think 90's...and after a few hundred hours of playing it normally I started memory editing to modify ship parameters and got another hundred+ hours out of it. I'd have quit playing earlier if not for that additional gameplay that "cheating" opened up.

Yes, some gamers who cheat do so to bypass the challenge, and yes, for them they are cheating themselves...but it's over-generalization to say that is the case across the board.

That being said, in an online game where everything you do potentially impacts other players it is ethically wrong to use cheats and is against the ToS. And that's what this is about, whether it's "Fun" or not is beside the point.

This. I'm sure most people who cheat in a game like ED don't do this to gain a competitive advantage over others or some such, they just dont care about any effect they have on others and want to have fun their way. It is a mentality that leads to cheating, and others well-discussed behavior. :p
 
If they got an outright Ban, the cost of returning ($ new account) and the loss of all effort in game to that point, these cheaters might not be so willing to use it.
The fact that Fdev can detect and does act is a good sign.... but the punishment is laughable.

After reading the source material this is my presumption of FDEV's anti-cheat protocol:
First detection - the email you see in the OP
2nd = loss of assets and credits
3rd = perma ban, loss of account

I could be wrong and that's why it would be nice to see an official statement from FDEV on this matter.
 
yeah, the fact that they are aware and doing 'something' is good news. was actually to be expected.

however, also from skimming those forums a bit, the bans seem connected with fuel usage and jump distance. these are obvious call outs. inside an instance, with everything what happens in combat, that's a different story. we don't really know but it doesn't look good.

otoh, let's not panic. ok, let's panic, but also try to keep this in proportion. how many cheaters have you actually encountered? how many fights did you have disrupted for this? ok, maybe you couldn't know. well, then in that case it's not that much of a cheat, ok? of course still nasty and unfair, and silly, but ... gamebreaking?

then there is the trust and expectations issue. of course the shadow of doubt taints the very roots of competitive gameplay. that's completely natural and understandable, but ... it's just the wrong game for that. i'd really love if elite were a competitive game. i very much thought it would be, but that was always me. probably that's why, while they exist, you don't see cheaters around. in that sense elite is just a scenario for a social experience. it just hasn't the finesse to articulate a fair and competitive environment, imo they never ever intended to.

good news is that on the one aspect where this really hits the core of elite, exploration, is probably the easiest to address. so someone cheated in combat? no big deal, actually, except edge cases. having fake names plastered all over the galaxy would definitely taint a very cherished and unique trope of the game, one for whic this game was really made for.
 
After reading the source material this is my presumption of FDEV's anti-cheat protocol:
First detection - the email you see in the OP
2nd = loss of assets and credits
3rd = perma ban, loss of account

I could be wrong and that's why it would be nice to see an official statement from FDEV on this matter.

Well, if that is shown to be the case i still say that it's limp.
This tool needs to be nipped in the bud, any confirmed use is an instant account termination.

Im sure people who just want to create chaos in game will still use, but having to buy a new account every time they get detected will eventually force them to stop.
People who use it in ED just to get a leg up wont risk using it, because a real risk of account deletion and banning defeats the point.

Going easy on these tool users will only green light its use.
 
This is from ex-forum,has very good analisis of FD actions against cheaters,this guy brought near 30 accounts!!!!!....

"With over 60
With over 60 warning on my side on something like 30 accounts, I might be able to give you peeps some insight.

First of all, you need to realize that FD reaction could almost be considered random. They do not react the same for the same detection on similar account, with infraction done for the same amount of time during the same day. It varies and there is not 1 path they follow every time.

Most of the time, it will look like this :

1st infraction (if minor and not done in open with proof):
1 or 3 day shadow ban 95% of the time. Treat to remove credits, but it doesn't happen about 50% of the time.
Received a perma shadow ban once on 1st infraction.

2nd infraction (minor):
3-7 day shadow ban or perma shadow ban. Credits removal (from +/-20% up to 100%, ship sometimes included and other time not)

3rd infraction (minor, if you were not yet perma)
perma shadow. Credits wipe (usually 75-100%) or CMDR wipe


1st infraction (Major or video in open):
3 day shadow up to perma shadow. Treat to remove credits up (0-100% removed) up to CMDR wipe. Had some occurence where FD forced a name change to something chameful so we had to endure it to keep credits or do a CMDR wipe and lose all.

2nd infraction (Major)
7 day shadow or perma shadow. Often a CMDR wipe, but sometimes only moved back to 1000CR.



Now, minor infraction might go from game mecanism abuse (without even using any lua or cheat) to some seemingly low use of cheat engine (from their POV). During test, some shield hack were sometime enough to trigger this, while other time even if leaving a conda with turrets and 200t of fuel and some worthy cargo in a H-Res site for days didn't trigger it. Random at it's better.


Major infraction are usually Frontier spot your account using CE earning a big amount of credits in a medium timeframe with low downtime (afk turrets mostly). They usually respond to this more heavily as on top on knowing you used some hack to improve your game experience, they know you abused the game further by trying to make credits without playing the game at all. Combine this with using exploit like mode switching civil war, breaking the BGS, will most likely lead to the fastest way to get a CMDR wipe. Once again, their action seems somewhat random as often having 3 CMDR doing the exact same thing will not be dealt with the same way and sometimes 1 even go unspotted/undealt with.

These random possibilities is what we call FD protection to hide their detection method.

Account total ban have only occured on some exceptional case, and we know most of you wouldn't be able to receive this. Unless your CMDR is named Logoffsky or you'er testing some hack that haven't been publicly released and that only a few crazy peep would test.
on my side on something like 30 accounts, I might be able to give you peeps some insight.

First of all, you need to realize that FD reaction could almost be considered random. They do not react the same for the same detection on similar account, with infraction done for the same amount of time during the same day. It varies and there is not 1 path they follow every time.

Most of the time, it will look like this :

1st infraction (if minor and not done in open with proof):
1 or 3 day shadow ban 95% of the time. Treat to remove credits, but it doesn't happen about 50% of the time.
Received a perma shadow ban once on 1st infraction.

2nd infraction (minor):
3-7 day shadow ban or perma shadow ban. Credits removal (from +/-20% up to 100%, ship sometimes included and other time not)

3rd infraction (minor, if you were not yet perma)
perma shadow. Credits wipe (usually 75-100%) or CMDR wipe


1st infraction (Major or video in open):
3 day shadow up to perma shadow. Treat to remove credits up (0-100% removed) up to CMDR wipe. Had some occurence where FD forced a name change to something chameful so we had to endure it to keep credits or do a CMDR wipe and lose all.

2nd infraction (Major)
7 day shadow or perma shadow. Often a CMDR wipe, but sometimes only moved back to 1000CR.



Now, minor infraction might go from game mecanism abuse (without even using any lua or cheat) to some seemingly low use of cheat engine (from their POV). During test, some shield hack were sometime enough to trigger this, while other time even if leaving a conda with turrets and 200t of fuel and some worthy cargo in a H-Res site for days didn't trigger it. Random at it's better.


Major infraction are usually Frontier spot your account using CE earning a big amount of credits in a medium timeframe with low downtime (afk turrets mostly). They usually respond to this more heavily as on top on knowing you used some hack to improve your game experience, they know you abused the game further by trying to make credits without playing the game at all. Combine this with using exploit like mode switching civil war, breaking the BGS, will most likely lead to the fastest way to get a CMDR wipe. Once again, their action seems somewhat random as often having 3 CMDR doing the exact same thing will not be dealt with the same way and sometimes 1 even go unspotted/undealt with.

These random possibilities is what we call FD protection to hide their detection method.

Account total ban have only occured on some exceptional case, and we know most of you wouldn't be able to receive this. Unless your CMDR is named Logoffsky or you'er testing some hack that haven't been publicly released and that only a few crazy peep would test."
 
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Krash,

Did you get the impression that the cheaters on the cheat forum were combat focused?

Did you get the impression that they were leveraging these cheats to manipulate the BGS?

Did you get the impression that there was salt farming glee obtained when dunking on non-cheaters?

Did you get the impression that they were gankers?

Was it more about the status from breaking the game rather than game effects?
 
Krash,

Did you get the impression that the cheaters on the cheat forum were combat focused?

Did you get the impression that they were leveraging these cheats to manipulate the BGS?

Did you get the impression that there was salt farming glee obtained when dunking on non-cheaters?

Did you get the impression that they were gankers?

Was it more about the status from breaking the game rather than game effects?
My impression is that these are PvE noobs. I didn't see any ganker chat whatsoever. Its like a bunch of kids looking for shortcuts. They want to travel to Colonia quickly, from what I saw. Of course, this is just 1 forum out of who knows how many.
 
Google has a lot to answer for in this respect. Type in a search for "elite dangerous hacks" and it presents you with a site in a nice emphasis box that designs and advertises working hacks !
 
Interesting post. Question is, is or was the poster trustworthy? All points actually make a lot of sense to me, especially the randomization. And as the poster mentioned, they seem to be systematically analyzing frontier's reaction schemes. All that looks like a quite decent proposal rather than reality - as in 'to good to be true'.

Could also be, that....
I shut up. It's hard to stay positive these days.

Btw, I've cut away one half of this text, was a double-in-one quote. Shorter now. ;)
I want to believe FDEV is more consistent than is being portrayed by Jankula's cheater, but it's consistent with what is on their forum. One guy thought he paid enough to the online store and that is why he got away with it so long without any warnings o_O
 
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No, Google has nothing to answer for. You asked them for something and they gave it to you. Google is not the morality police to protect the sanctity of our game.
Ahh, but this is where the responsibility of Google is now being called into question. It's a similar position to responsibility of search engines and facebook etc. for highlighting sites encouraging child molestation, suicides and such like.

Where does it begin, and where does it end? Should Google be highlighting a code hacking forum ? I suggest they could be sued.
 
Hacking is good - but only if it is for "white-hat" purposes:

"Hey, , look what I have found here, you have 90 days to patch this or I go public - standard tech security protocol"

Anything else and the user should be jettisoned into the nearest star - or account and IP ban, whichever is easiest.
 
Ahh, but this is where the responsibility of Google is now being called into question. It's a similar position to responsibility of search engines and facebook etc. for highlighting sites encouraging child molestation, suicides and such like.

Where does it begin, and where does it end? Should Google be highlighting a code hacking forum ? I suggest they could be sued.
What an incredibly bad take.

Don't conflate illegal actions such as those you suggested with poor moral judgement, like hacking. The day that cheating in a videogame is punishable by law, sure, maybe Google could be expected to filter it.

But suggesting that Google should censor stuff as trivial as video game cheats leads down a dark path where knowledge is too easily obscured by those with money and/or power. (See how the internet works in China)
 
What FDev calls "ban" is not the revoke/block of account. It's a permanent shadowban. Kind of permanently forced Solo mode.
Not a problem at all for those who already plays in Solo always.
Where, unable to cheat, they die of boredom trying to progress in the normal manner. That way, FD keeps their money and is not in line for disputing a refund. Quite neat, really.
 
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