PLEASE MAKE POWERPLAY IN "OPEN ONLY"

[Agony_Aunt]

My issue is that people who have no experience or interest in powerplay or pvp whatsoever end up dictating how powerplay should be.

Ah! Ok. I have experience with PP. I played it a bit when it was launched. I also have an interest in seeing it improved, because as it stands, well, i think we can agree, its a bit pants. However, we can disagree on how it should be improved. Just flipping a switch to make it open only is not a solution because there are many problems with PP. Open Only could be a part of a bigger change to make it more interesting and engaging for players. As it stands, just flipping the switch i think would cause PP to hemmorage players. There needs to be something to entice people to play. Sandro made a number of other proposals that would help in addition to Open Only. If you are not familiar with those other proposals, then i suggest you check them out. So, any chance to improve PP is going to take quite a bit of work.

As for PvP, i don't have much interest in it. I've done a bit of PvP, i've been associated with a couple of PvP groups and helped promote them. I have nothing against PvP per se, and in the right environment and conditions, i'm fine with taking part (eg: CQC, duels, or other PvP focused games). Its worth remembering that PP as it stands is very much a PvE activity and a change to Open Only or the other changes Sandro proposed won't change that. Therefore the opinions of those who want to play the mechanics of PP via PvE should certainly be taken into consideration. Possibly much more so than those who want to use PP as an opportunity for PvP.

If you think only PvPers should have a say in PP, then how about the devs remove all PvE elements from PP and make it a pure PvP activity?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Dammit, Fdev, give me that open only trial period!

Your trial period has expired.

 

[Arry]

Not so easy. The devs have been influenced multiple times by the vocal community of players who gets angry when ganked. Anaconda nerf comes to mind, it was suggested by Sandro too, and the poopoostorm did stop the devs from making intended changes.

It is known as, listening to the majority. Your view or desire. Is in the minority.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Is anywhere stated when you buy the game , on steam page, on frontier's page, that all the features of the game are playable across all modes?
Because if not, your argument is invalid.

They are though by dint of how the game works. Anyone interested could have taken a look before buying and discovered this. Prerelease devs talked about how everything will work cross mode, with the obvious exception of wings which can't work in solo.... still waiting on those NPC wings FD!

 

[lenna]

Powerplay has never been limited to Open play only, therefore the ability to attack all opposition players has never existed.

This is a game with entirely optional PvP - one need not enjoy PvP to comment on game features (none of which require one to engage in PvP - apart from CQC / Arena, of course).

And this is essentially the nub of the problem... also instancing and cross-platform support without cross-play equally makes the case for Open Only PP on the basis of enforcing being able to combat opposition using direct PvP rather weak.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Is anywhere stated when you buy the game , on steam page, on frontier's page, that all the features of the game are playable across all modes?
Because if not, your argument is invalid.

Well, we can start with the Kickstarter FAQ:

How will single player work? Will I need to connect to a server to play?

The galaxy for Elite: Dangerous is a shared universe maintained by a central server. All of the meta data for the galaxy is shared between players. This includes the galaxy itself as well as transient information like economies. The aim here is that a player's actions will influence the development of the galaxy, without necessarily having to play multiplayer.
The other important aspect for us is that we can seed the galaxy with events, often these events will be triggered by player actions. With a living breathing galaxy players can discover new and interesting things long after they have started playing.
Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).
Last updated: Tue, December 11 2012 9:56 AM UTC +00:00

Does it state anywhere at all that any game feature is restricted to Open?

 

[Robert Maynard]

What jumps to my eyes is no mention of powerplay there.

The FAQ was written about two and a half years before Powerplay was added to the base game as the third point update.

In an AMA on Powerplay, around the time of its launch, DBOBE himself commented on players in Solo affecting Powerplay.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Damn, why do I imagine Arry, Agony_Aunt and Robert Maynard as some sort of "ALL MODES ARE EQUALS!1!!1!!1" Justice League, waiting in their lair for this kind of threads to be opened by the random new guy asking for something that apparently seem to be logical to new guys too?

Jokes aside: you guys should just accept the fact that Powerplay should become something for the Open Players and easily avoidable for every other playstyle (no Powerplay module, no link to BGS, new set of rules etc). You're making a crusade over this argument, and the repetitive nature of your statement and your wolf-pack mentality about that is typical of fanatic people. Relax, it's just a game, try to accept the possibility that there's an actual demand to introduce in game a different game mechanic which will may not interest you and you will be able to ignore as many other people ignore other parts of the game.

For example, I don't about the fact that there's no activity as much remunerative as mining for the people who don't like mining as I am. Being a functional adult I can accept the fact that it's impossible to have everything I want on my terms, try to be a functional adult, it's easy if you try.

And please stop repeating the same old arguments just to flood the thread and try to make people stop talking, because it's crystal clear to every grown-up that this is your only goal, shutting down others by repetition.

That's just the same old yada yada yada.

 

[Arry]

The point is that you might which is better than never.

Never is a very long time. A bit if an overstatement, don't you think?

I have run P/P cargo in open and have often met human opposing players and in the distance; I heard them complain, that the speed of my Clipper: Is unfair.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's crystal clear that some OOPP proponents would rather that their demands were made in an echo chamber of agreement....

 

[lenna]

If powerplay was designed to be played in open exclusively, then that is a design flaw in powerplay as all of Elite is supposed to work with mode parity. Which means powerplay needs to be redesigned to adhere to mode parity while still maintaining a competitive player vs player center, even if players never meet ship to ship.

Its worth remembering that PP as it stands is very much a PvE activity and a change to Open Only or the other changes Sandro proposed won't change that. Therefore the opinions of those who want to play the mechanics of PP via PvE should certainly be taken into consideration. Possibly much more so than those who want to use PP as an opportunity for PvP.

Exactly... fundamentally ED is a PvE focused game and PvP is entirely optional. It is clear that PvP (by design) is obviously meant to be emergent in nature as opposed to being explicitly forced or facilitated in any way (outside of CQC/Arena that is).

If you think only PvPers should have a say in PP, then how about the devs remove all PvE elements from PP and make it a pure PvP activity?

Good point - But there have been a few ideas in these forums to improve PvP in Open without removing options for everyone else nor turning Open into a PvP-centric environment.

 

[Arry]

Damn, why do I imagine Arry, Agony_Aunt and Robert Maynard as some sort of "ALL MODES ARE EQUALS!1!!1!!1" Justice League, waiting in their lair for this kind of threads to be opened by the random new guy asking for something that apparently seem to be logical to new guys too?

Jokes aside: you guys should just accept the fact that Powerplay should become something for the Open Players and easily avoidable for every other playstyle (no Powerplay module, no link to BGS, new set of rules etc). You're making a crusade over this argument, and the repetitive nature of your statement and your wolf-pack mentality about that is typical of fanatic people. Relax, it's just a game, try to accept the possibility that there's an actual demand to introduce in game a different game mechanic which will may not interest you and you will be able to ignore as many other people ignore other parts of the game.

For example, I don't * about the fact that there's no activity as much remunerative as mining for the people who don't like mining as I am. Being a functional adult I can't accept the fact that it's impossible to have everything I want on my terms, try to be a functional adult, it's easy if you try.

And please stop repeating the same old arguments just to flood the thread and try to make people stop talking, because it's crystal clear to every grown-up that this is your only goal, shutting down others by repetition.

That's just the same old yada yada yada.

Dogs have been known, to have manic tenancies. This old dog can always come up with a valid argument; based on facts and appropriate for the discussion in hand.

Repeating myself? Do you mean offering the same valid arguments, to the same, limited reasons, for removing content from the game? I do not start these threads and standing to one side and doing or saying nothing, is not in my nature; sorry about that.

I agree and have hinted at, even here in this thread: The repeated threads proposing this option, is becoming monotonous, boring and pointless. If those against it, stayed silent, then the POOP crowd, would then use that silence, as grounds of no opposition to it.

If F.D. had stated at the beginning: We are going to introduce Power Play, but in open play only; I would have argued for it. However: They did not. They gave it to 'all' of the players; many of which, never play or wish to play in open. Therefore, this proposal, is taking game content, from them and is wrong.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Dogs have been known, to have manic tenancies. This old dog can always come up with a valid argument; based on facts and appropriate for the discussion in hand.

Repeating myself? Do you mean offering the same valid arguments, to the same, limited reasons, for removing content from the game? I do not start these threads and standing to one side and doing or saying nothing, is not in my nature; sorry about that.

I agree and have hinted at, even here in this thread: The repeated threads proposing this option, is becoming monotonous, boring and pointless. If those against it, stayed silent, then the POOP crowd, would then use that silence, as grounds of no opposition to it.

If F.D. had stated at the beginning: We are going to introduce Power Play, but in open play only; I would have argued for it. However: They did not. They gave it to 'all' of the players; many of which, never play or wish to play in open. Therefore, this proposal, is taking game content, from them and is wrong.

As I told before: yada yada yada.

 

[lenna]

you guys should just accept the fact that Powerplay should become something for the Open Players and easily avoidable for every other playstyle (no Powerplay module, no link to BGS, new set of rules etc).

Sorry, but don't see any validity to this line of thinking - How about an alternate option.

Introduce a main-environment PvP league based around squadrons but where the Squadron leader determines whether their squadron is going to participate. Rewards and impact on the BGS would need to be carefully considered but structured engagements using such a system would almost certainly provide a better PvP experience than changing PP to essentially facilitate and enforce randomised ganking/griefing. How such a system would be facilitated is another point of consideration but there are many different approaches that could be taken on that score. Multi-crew like solutions for example.

PP could then be improved for all with a focus on the PvE elements and keeping PvP as a purely emergent option.

 

[CMDR KOBAL]

Dogs have been known, to have manic tenancies. This old dog can always come up with a valid argument; based on facts and appropriate for the discussion in hand.

Repeating myself? Do you mean offering the same valid arguments, to the same, limited reasons, for removing content from the game? I do not start these threads and standing to one side and doing or saying nothing, is not in my nature; sorry about that.

I agree and have hinted at, even here in this thread: The repeated threads proposing this option, is becoming monotonous, boring and pointless. If those against it, stayed silent, then the POOP crowd, would then use that silence, as grounds of no opposition to it.

If F.D. had stated at the beginning: We are going to introduce Power Play, but in open play only; I would have argued for it. However: They did not. They gave it to 'all' of the players; many of which, never play or wish to play in open. Therefore, this proposal, is taking game content, from them and is wrong.

So hypothetically, you would not be in opposition to a change as long as "content is not removed" from people who aren't interested in pvp?

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Sorry, but don't see any validity to this line of thinking - How about an alternate option.

Introduce a main-environment PvP league based around squadrons but where the Squadron leader determines whether their squadron is going to participate. Rewards and impact on the BGS would need to be carefully considered but structured engagements using such a system would almost certainly provide a better PvP experience than changing PP to essentially facilitate and enforce randomised ganking/griefing. How such a system would be facilitated is another point of consideration but there are many different approaches that could be taken on that score. Multi-crew like solutions for example.

PP could then be improved for all with a focus on the PvE elements and keeping PvP as a purely emergent option.

I will answer you with this: in the first iteration of Powerplay (I wasn't there, but it was told me) the only way to undermine was to steal commodities to other ships, either humans or NPCs. You know what happened? People begun to simply pledge to an enemy powe and give commodities to their friends.

Another thing: you keep talking about some sort of "pvp only" activity: honestly that's not what most of Powerplayers want, and a PvP-only activity would be very easy to exploit because, at the actal state of the art, money is so easy to do that many people will simply make themselves blow up to help their real Power.

So, and this is my opinion, the only way to have a good game is to diversify the pve activities in powerplay with the constant menace of a pvp encounter, making cooperation a necessity to complete pve tasks that in the end will count as the effectiveness of the group. This concept is what most powerplayers root for since ages, as a veteran powerplayer I think I've got a little bit more of experience about that and about what the actual issues of Powerplay are.

But please, you can go on talking about Powerplay even if you have no experience about it, honestly I'm kinda tired of that, I would love to discuss about game mechanics (I opened many threads about Powerplay), but people usually want just to talk about how the "mode equality" was promised during a kickstarter campaign 5 years ago, and that is not something that I find interesting honestly.

 

[Arry]

As I told before: yada yada yada.

Well: After have a quick browse through your published P.R.. I can see that you are a pirate group, that demands open play only; for everything you and yours do. This includes not using the block player option etc.. Which in my opinion, is a rather restrictive way of playing the game; but this is your choice and you are free to make it.

However: Here, you are trying to impose, your own faction rules; on all of the players of the game.

So if all you can offer, to oppose my point of view; is 'yada yada yada'. I'll just leave you to enjoy your own little dictatorship.

 

[lenna]

the only way to have a good game is to diversify the pve activities in powerplay with the constant menace of a pvp encounter, making cooperation a necessity to complete pve tasks that in the end will count as the effectiveness of the group.

Essentially the same thing as making PP PvP centric - something I diametrically oppose.

The PvP league squadron proposal I outlined above could be implemented without removing existing options and need not necessarily be purely PvP either. There are various options that could be adopted but the key note aspects of it would be:-

1. Open Only from the outset and designed that way
2. Completely optional wrt participation
3. No impact of note on anyone who do not participate (no locked main-environment modules/ships/weapons and no tangible impact on the BGS)

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Well: After have a quick browse through your published P.R.. I can see that you are a pirate group, that demands open play only; for everything you and yours do. This includes not using the block player option etc.. Which in my opinion, is a rather restrictive way of playing the game; but this is your choice and you are free to make it.

However: Here, you are trying to impose, your own faction rules; on all of the players of the game.

So if all you can offer, to oppose my point of view; is 'yada yada yada'. I'll just leave you to enjoy your own little dictatorship.

And after a quick browse you were quickly wrong. I'm everything but a pirate.
As I told before: yada yada yada and try to deal with your capacity of understanding written text because it's honestly worrying.
PS I'll help you: "Veteran Pirate" is a rank name for the more seasoned players in the Kumo Crew.

 

[Arry]

So hypothetically, you would not be in opposition to a change as long as "content is not removed" from people who aren't interested in pvp?

You are twisting my words, to fit your own cause.

There are people who are not interested in PvP, playing in all the modes available. (there is a minor error there and I'll let you work it out for yourself) I said: Players who have never played in open; twist it in any way, you need to.