PLEASE MAKE POWERPLAY IN "OPEN ONLY"

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I just wish there could be some solid proposals presented for what a change would look like and then the entire player comminity could cast their vote. It'd be so nice to tangibly see what the majority of the player base really wants.

But I'm just wishing.
Arguably that happened a year ago when Sandro posted the first Powerplay Flash Topic. No voting as such - just feedback in the thread.
 
I'd like to hear your reasons why making PP open only would drive people away from the game.
Probably not the game in general, but in my experience it would drive far more players away from Powerplay than it would attract new players who would stick with it. PvP/PvE hybrids like Elite Dangerous in general, and Powerplay in particular, tend to hemorrhage players, due to a tiny minority acting like jerks, unless the game advertises that acting like a jerk is a headline feature. Most games avoid the issue entirely by hard coding a wall between PvPers and everyone else, and those that don’t eventually go that route as well, or shut down their servers.

Elite Dangerous constantly surprises me that a significant majority of players play in Open, for one reason or another. I attribute this to a rather novel approach to the problem: letting players, on a session by session basis, choose who they want to be instanced with. This leaves those who enjoy acting like jerks in games without their audience. Everyone wins. PvPers win, since there will be a larger cohort willing to be shot at, and perhaps consider shooting back. PvEers win, because they don’t have to worry about being attacked by other players. Those who fall between those two extremes win, because they’re not forced to choose betweeen all PvP, and all PvE. And the jerks...

well...

I guess I was wrong about everyone winning. :D

The problem with Powerplay isn’t the modes. It’s systemic. The voting and preparation rules favor fifth column activity, the fortification/undermining rules makes fortification easy, module shopping encourages Power hopping, and the lack of variety in earning Merits discourages widespread participation.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Damn, why do I imagine Arry, Agony_Aunt and Robert Maynard as some sort of "ALL MODES ARE EQUALS!1!!1!!1" Justice League, waiting in their lair for this kind of threads to be opened by the random new guy asking for something that apparently seem to be logical to new guys too? :p
Nothing so organised....

.... just some players who don't seem to accept that any player has the right to demand that existing pan-modal content is retrospectively gated to their particular play-style.
Jokes aside: you guys should just accept the fact that Powerplay should become something for the Open Players and easily avoidable for every other playstyle (no Powerplay module, no link to BGS, new set of rules etc). You're making a crusade over this argument, and the repetitive nature of your statement and your wolf-pack mentality about that is typical of fanatic people. Relax, it's just a game, try to accept the possibility that there's an actual demand to introduce in game a different game mechanic which will may not interest you and you will be able to ignore as many other people ignore other parts of the game.
There is, as yet, no "fact that Powerplay should become something for Open Players" - merely a proposal that might, possibly, be implemented if changes to Powerplay go ahead.

.... and the opinions of the supporters of OOPP, of course.
For example, I don't * about the fact that there's no activity as much remunerative as mining for the people who don't like mining as I am. Being a functional adult I can accept the fact that it's impossible to have everything I want on my terms, try to be a functional adult, it's easy if you try.
Being a "functional adult" I can accept that Frontier have implemented the game with absolutely no requirement for PvP with regard to engaging in any game feature and that every player bought the game on that basis.

It'd be great if other players would do the same....
And please stop repeating the same old arguments just to flood the thread and try to make people stop talking, because it's crystal clear to every grown-up that this is your only goal, shutting down others by repetition.

That's just the same old yada yada yada.
The "same old arguments" are just as relevant now as they were when first made. The discussion around the three game modes / single shared galaxy state (i.e. PvP is an optional extra and not required) has been running since some of the first backers realised that players could affect the game without playing with them - that's well over six years now.

Have there been any truly new arguments in support of Open only anything in the last few years?
 
Nothing so organised....

.... just some players who don't seem to accept that any player has the right to demand that existing pan-modal content is retrospectively gated to their particular play-style.

There is, as yet, no "fact that Powerplay should become something for Open Players" - merely a proposal that might, possibly, be implemented if changes to Powerplay go ahead.

.... and the opinions of the supporters of OOPP, of course.

Being a "functional adult" I can accept that Frontier have implemented the game with absolutely no requirement for PvP with regard to engaging in any game feature and that every player bought the game on that basis.

It'd be great if other players would do the same....

The "same old arguments" are just as relevant now as they were when first made. The discussion around the three game modes / single shared galaxy state (i.e. PvP is an optional extra and not required) has been running since some of the first backers realised that players could affect the game without playing with them - that's well over six years now.

Have there been any truly new arguments in support of Open only anything in the last few years?
Back in circles, I see. Well, would it be such a tragedy if something is implemented in game which you don't like but you can ignore totally?
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
So can we call it NotPowerPlay and keep the actual PowerPlay to die?
Better yet, create a duplicate for an Open only mode - and leave the existing tri-modal implementation alone.

.... for truly Open only Powerplay, mode switching would need to be disabled, otherwise a not insignificant number of players would likely only be in Open when they absolutely had to be.
 
Better yet, create a duplicate for an Open only mode - and leave the existing tri-modal implementation alone.

.... for truly Open only Powerplay, mode switching would need to be disabled, otherwise a not insignificant number of players would likely only be in Open when they absolutely had to be.
So anything but it can't be Open Only. A crusade guys. For a videogame. Got better to do than talk to fanatics, honestly. :) See ya.
 
Is it so dissimilar from the six year crusade for PvP-gated content in a videogame that has been sold to every single player as not requiring PvP to engage in any game feature?
Yes because you are preventing people to have anything at all because of your beliefs. Nobody here wants the game "all open only". But you want "nothing" to be open only, even a little part (powerplay for example because it's easier to tewak something already dead). That's what fanatism looks like. ;) So yes, it's different.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Yes because you are preventing people to have anything at all because of your beliefs. Nobody here wants the game "all open only". But you want "nothing" to be open only, even a little part (powerplay for example because it's easier to tewak something already dead). That's what fanatism looks like. ;) So yes, it's different.
I think that the idea that I am "preventing" anything is quite absurd and credits me with an amount of leverage with Frontier that, as a normal player, I simply don't have.

I understand that some would prefer their proposals to be unopposed - maybe best not to make them on an open forum in that case.
 
Well... the actual proposals are
  • Powerplay missions
  • Open Only or a dedicated mode to play Powerplay
  • new rules to make possible to drop specific systems to enemy Powers
  • new rules to make every conquest always good (because right now the great mess which is Powerplay is endangered mostly by players pledged to a power just to destroy it from within).
Try to read some old threads about that (many of them are mine :p ), we're basically waiting for FDev to give us a sign.
Like: "waiting for godot" wait. Patiently. Like tibetan monks.
I will check some of your stuff.
 
I think that the idea that I am "preventing" anything is quite absurd and credits me with an amount of leverage with Frontier that, as a normal player, I simply don't have.

I understand that some would prefer their proposals to be unopposed - maybe best not to make them on an open forum in that case.
How many people you gonna annoy with this crap? Good lord.

At least the real Robert Maynard went out and took on The Great Black Beard Pirate. He went looking for PVP.

He'd be rolling in his grave knowing someone was using his name like this :)
 
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Powerplay was first designed to give players a reason to PvP (See Sandro's Comments on this).
Which I’ve always considered revisionist history on Sandro’s part. If Powerplay was intended to be an outlet for PvP, why doesn’t it facilitate PvP? Why can’t you complete objectives via PvP? Why is it the best you can hope for is to delay the PvE objectives of other Powers? Why doesn’t it reward players for PvP?

(edited to fix some phone related typos)
 
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Which I’ve always considered revisionist history on Sandro’s part. If Powerplaybeas intended to be an outlet fir PvP, why doesn’t it facilitate PvP? Why can’t you complete objectives via PvP? Why is it the best you can hope for is to delay the PvE objectives of other Powers? Why doesn’t it reward players for PvP?
that's easy. because their vision of pvp is that of a theme park developer. they consider it just one 'nice to have' to appeal to a broader audience.
 
Better yet, create a duplicate for an Open only mode - and leave the existing tri-modal implementation alone.

.... for truly Open only Powerplay, mode switching would need to be disabled, otherwise a not insignificant number of players would likely only be in Open when they absolutely had to be.
This seems like the beginning of a legit proposal. It's a compromise, but if we want change, people are going to have to be willing to compromise.
 
Errmm... false - you have detailed an opinion which does not reflect the facts.
And I keep on asking you for facts / evidence / anything and you give none, while I detail my opinion with evidence and analysis.

You don't actually say anything to back up your assertions.

Or is that, as you keep on saying- a moot point?
 
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Never is a very long time. A bit if an overstatement, don't you think?

I have run P/P cargo in open and have often met human opposing players and in the distance; I heard them complain, that the speed of my Clipper: Is unfair.
But, you have a chance to change things. Remember we are extrapolating from what we already have and don't know exactly how behaviour or tactics will change.
 
This seems like the beginning of a legit proposal. It's a compromise, but if we want change, people are going to have to be willing to compromise.
The other issue is FD are not willing to put time in or have extra servers. Its blatantly obvious they want maximum gain from minimum effort. Sandros proposal was the compromise.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Sandros proposal was the compromise.
.... and Sandro's proposals formed part of an investigation, seeking feedback from the user-base - not a fait accompli.

After the reaction to the Open only proposal in FF1, he reincarnated the Open play bonus proposal of March'16 in FF2. Then it went quiet.

Will has indicated that some of the proposals in FF1 are being considered. I'm interested to find out which ones make the cut.
 
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