Cheating in Elite Dangerous

[WeComeInPeace]

Maybe it's time for a minor reality check. We have come a long way since making your 1541 play a melody, cutting holes in a floppy to make it double sided or having sprites in the border of your C64 was considered fun creativity among the young ones. What went wrong, and who could possibly have seen that coming?

A computer is what it is, and it will never be a place to store a secret. That "war" has been going on for at least 40+ years now, and honestly, the biggest problem is that we've become so dependent on the computers while not being able to control it. If it's anything "computer", it can and will be hacked or cracked. Not that it is necessarily ethically correct, but to believe otherwise is being naive. And we don't want to be naive now, do we?

 

[Jukelo]

Hello everyone,

We take this activity very seriously and, working alongside our development and support teams, are active in taking actions against those who engage with such activities.

We hope you understand that we are not able to share the details of the action actively being taken, or the steps we have in place to tackle the use of these tools, as we do not wish those engaging with this sort of behaviour to circumvent the controls we have in place.

We’ve been reading through all of the feedback you’ve shared. We appreciate your concerns and wanted to take a moment to inform and remind you that the use of cheats, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software is strictly prohibited.

Thanks for your understanding.

Hey Will,

I understand you need to maintain some secrecy as to the method used to detect cheaters, but to what extent is that stopping you from simply telling us 'we found this many cheaters in the past 6 months and took action'. Of course one may be reluctant to even admit there are cheaters in their game, let alone publicize numbers, but nobody is naïve enough to think there exists a live game without cheaters. And if you don't give out information beyond the cooke-cutter and insincere response everybody cynically expects from a PR person, the community will make something up, and it will be worse than the truth.

 

[00nutzy]

I am not sure I understand.

Fdev has stated in this thread that they are doing something and that it is important to them (canned response but still a response)
You have the hackers themselves saying FDev are doing things including bans.
In he same thread you say they are doing nothing.

Perhaps they aren't doing enough (dependent upon personal outlook) but they are doing something.

 

[nigeljk]

The correct final solution is for FD to kill the hack. Not easy at the best of times but with a compacted delivery pipeline I wouldn't expect the final solution anytime soon. Bans are sticking plasters, at best, and you can only hope that it deters new adopters from using the hack to bolster their position then stopping before being detected.

I would suspect that a database trawl looking for tell tails is underway, but this again is only a stop gap. I use mainly Mobius so the impact for me is really only the BGS stuff. I was considering trying out open but will now wait until the final solution is in place.

FD also have to consider their IP when responding to 'public pressure'. Given the technical prowess of some of the posters here this can be the only reason they won't engage on the technicalities. Even signing a NDA is unlikely to protect them from a disastrous leak, and legal action is costly and often does not provide a remedy.

 

[Krash]

Hey Will,

I understand you need to maintain some secrecy as to the method used to detect cheaters, but to what extent is that stopping you from simply telling us 'we found this many cheaters in the past 6 months and took action'. Of course one may be reluctant to even admit there are cheaters in their game, let alone publicize numbers, but nobody is naïve enough to think there exists a live game without cheaters. And if you don't give out information beyond the cooke-cutter and insincere response everybody cynically expects from a PR person, the community will make something up, and it will be worse than the truth.

I'm not sure about that. What if they only shadow banned 50 users in the past 6 months. Imagine the uproar over that.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

The problem is the issue will never be fully resolved. Rockstar has the same problem in GTA V - despite their very draconian If you Cheat, you are banned, no questions asked, appeal-denied approach.

Because this isn’t a game problem.
It’s a People Problem.

We outlawed murder, plenty of inmates are sent to their own executions annually. This has not stopped people from committing murder either.

It’s a People Problem, and there simply is no way to fix people. If there were, you’d all be sending me $1.00.

Effective punishment reduces instances of crime from rampant to restrained. Throwing your hands in the air and giving up because People, isnt the answer.

Your post hints at a binary solution being optimal (which i agree is not going to happen)... Stop cheating or dont. But thats not how the world works there is no absolute solution to illegal behaviour its more about effecting maximum control on the issue, to suppress and box the problem as much as you can and part of that control is in setting examples and showing those who want to break the rules that there are consequences appropriate to the infraction.

GTAv has had issues with hacks and mods, but are these issues now with controls in place as bad as they could be if none where there?
Fdev need to set examples. Fdev need to push back harder to show where the red line is. Right now i feel that Fdev are not doing enough and ED is feeling broken to me and its damaging my opinion of this game as im sure it will many others, including new customers.

Fdev are a light touch and this fact only emboldens the hackers.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

Just how corporations report increasingly on the number of vulnerabilities or security incidents found, without necessarily going into details, FD could release monthly or quarterly ban or action numbers, without releasing CMDR names or even what for (or only in broad categories: "botting", "memory hacks", etc.)

And what would really help is pro-active detection systems based on data analysis. We approached FD on that with regards to botting, but never got the conversation going, and we're still asked to "report" botting (when they're not detectable other than through data analysis, which FD can do much better). Also with these hack data analysis is the answer, and it would help already if FD declared that they are doing that.

At least part of defeating this is making it clear that action is being taken and that the use of these cheats could very well make you lose your account. Be upfront about it. Tell the kids, if we're afraid of that. Being 12 is no excuse for using these hacks.

 

[Han Zulu]

I still think they should honey-pot cheaters. Put them on their own server, no influence on BGS or PP, feels like they're still online, but in reality they're put in their own little cheat-world. Banning them only makes them buy new accounts and do it all over again. Honey-pot will cheat them of their cheaty ways.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

that's essentially what "shadow banning" is.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Just how corporations report increasingly on the number of vulnerabilities or security incidents found, without necessarily going into details, FD could release monthly or quarterly ban or action numbers, without releasing CMDR names or even what for (or only in broad categories: "botting", "memory hacks", etc.)

I think Perma Banned commader names should be published. The account is nuked, The commander erased so naming and shaming is not a factor.

 

[VerticalBlank]

At least part of defeating this is making it clear that action is being taken and that the use of these cheats could very well make you lose your account. Be upfront about it. Tell the kids, if we're afraid of that. Being 12 is no excuse for using these hacks.

I have to agree. There’s an old saying: “It’s not enough for justice to be done. It must be seen to be done.” Otherwise the deterrent value is lost.

 

[Aposto]

I'm interested in getting more information on the consequences of cheating... Is there a way for me to find out without having to use the cheat and get in trouble swiftly? It feels like the only way I can find out what the consequences are, is to cheat and find out, as I'm sure I will be caught immediately and get punished right away.

 

[Han Zulu]

that's essentially what "shadow banning" is.

Oh. I always thought it meant they were banned without any public notice.

See. Even old dogs can learn something.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

The explorers should be particularly upset about this. I was in Elysium a few days ago and it was all discovered and most of it was mapped. This hax made the return hop viable.

There's a bit in that hack that expands jump distance. That single slider kills an entire profession.

I did think about this, FD should remove those tags ASAP.

 

[claptonrulez]

Yeah okay, Bruh....

 

[Ian Skippy]

Hello everyone,

We take this activity very seriously and, working alongside our development and support teams, are active in taking actions against those who engage with such activities.

We hope you understand that we are not able to share the details of the action actively being taken, or the steps we have in place to tackle the use of these tools, as we do not wish those engaging with this sort of behaviour to circumvent the controls we have in place.

We’ve been reading through all of the feedback you’ve shared. We appreciate your concerns and wanted to take a moment to inform and remind you that the use of cheats, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software is strictly prohibited.

Thanks for your understanding.

On penalty of...?

They will have proofs.
Again tired voice
We meet in Open... I modify data related to your ship in my ED client memory, to make your ship invulnerable on my client. Then i do plenty of shots to your ship, record video with zero damage, send video to FDev, and they ban you using this video as a solid proof that you made your ship invulnerable.

REVERSE CHEATING guys, keep this in mind.
This already occurred in past. And FDev stopped proactively fighting cheaters exactly because of this. It's technically impossible for them to differentiate cheater, and reverse-cheated fair player.

Again: statistics. If player X is 'invulnerable' against player Y once, who knows what happened. If player X is consistently invulnerable against players who do not run into other invulnerable players a pattern starts to emerge. That is how 'p2p courtesy' ratings are calculated in tons of other p2p games. You disconnect once during combat? Could be anything. You disconnect tons of times, predominantly during combat? Well, we sympathize with your 'bad luck' but why dont you play in shadow mode until you 'fix your connection'.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

On another note, how does Ryan know the banning procedure?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

If the account is banned and cannot return then what would be the point of naming it?

To know if they are gone for good? To see the actual results of the banning?

 

[Vasco Sapien]

So far as im aware Frontier is under no obligation to provide proof to others that people who cheat have been banned.

Thats the point of these discussions, what Fdev do and what we think they should do.

If the account is banned and cannot return then what would be the point of naming it?

Heads on spikes.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

So far as im aware Frontier is under no obligation to provide proof to others that people who cheat have been banned.

All you will get from a list is people arguing that such and such should be on it, how the number is bogus or how such and such being on it is wrong.

I never said they are obligated, you asked the use, I gave you the answer.