Cheating in Elite Dangerous

[Tikanderoga]

There is no grind in Elite. People want things faster than intended, that's what creates what you call grinding.

Engineering mats: grind! (somewhat better with the new system, the old one was just worse)
Travel to Colonia - jump, honk, scoop, repeat - grind!
Unlocking the guardian modules: Scan the obelisks, log off, login, repeat - grind
or even worse: the blueprints before the nerf: Kills sentinels, shoot pylons, scan ball, log off, log in - Repeat! Do that 24 times for 3 modules. Grind!

Grind is anything that is just mind numbing and repetitive. And Elite has plenty of these gameplay loops.
Yes, other games are grindy too, but they make it more appealing. I love playing Diablo 3 for example. Sure, get to level 70 then run rifts until end of season. But every rift is different, monsters have different abilities, and it's not the same loot every time. Also you do get to progress, better gear allows you to run harder modes, for more challenge. That's called EndGame. Elite lacks that part big time.

 

[Stealthie]

It would be interesting to elaborate the WHY[ people cheat?
In combat, infinite shields - People hate losing. I get that.
Instant drop to station - people hate the wait - I get that, I hate it too.
Infinite jump range - people hate the grind - Elite is full of that repetitive gameplay
Full of engineering mats - people hate the grind - we've had that, but again.

I understand people wanting to skip the grind that is not really engaging gameplay, and watch loading screens for hours isn't everyone's cup of tea just to get to Colonia or back as an example. What these people are doing is implementing Fast Travel. Something that is prevalent in other games by default and isn't considered cheating - because the Devs know, forcing players to do something their way can end up losing a large chunk of players.

A friend of mine ditched Elite because it's just too grindy. He loves the graphics and flight model, but hates the grind. So Bessy went the Uninstall path.

No, absolutely not.

Nothing you posted there comes close to excusing cheating.

If somebody chooses to buy a game without being properly aware of what that game involves then the proper course of action is to stop playing the game and, possibly, to request a refund.

Not enjoying a game as it stands - an online multiplayer game in particular - is absolutely NO excuse to use cheats to turn it into something you do enjoy.

 

[Tikanderoga]

2. Find the hacker(s) who put together this hacktool and BUY THEIR WORK. Give them a bounty for finding a loophole, in exchange for their help plugging that loophole. Many software companies offer bounties to coders who can find security issues with their software.

Give them a Lifetime Expansion Pass!
Or 2 bobble heads and the Chieftain paint job from last week.

 

[-=VampyrE=-]

Simpel Question to the laughing stream-ganker: did you actually buy the cheattool and hand it over to FD six months ago or is it the typical „there is a problem - fix it“ thing?

If it was the second approach, did you think seriously, that FD could react the way you seem to expect. If you want fast fixing, invest. Not only talk and bash.

 

[Cmdr Beteran]

There is no grind in Elite. People want things faster than intended, that's what creates what you call grinding.

Engineering mats: grind! (somewhat better with the new system, the old one was just worse)

Engineering is optional, you want better than intended (see Valorin's quote above)

Travel to Colonia - jump, honk, scoop, repeat - grind!

Travel is a crucial and fundamental element in this game, and going all the way to Colonia is a choice.

Unlocking the guardian modules: Scan the obelisks, log off, login, repeat - grind
or even worse: the blueprints before the nerf: Kills sentinels, shoot pylons, scan ball, log off, log in - Repeat! Do that 24 times for 3 modules. Grind!

Guardian stuff is totally optional, you want better than intended (see Valorin's quote above)

Grind is anything that is just mind numbing and repetitive. And Elite has plenty of these gameplay loops.
Yes, other games are grindy too, but they make it more appealing. I love playing Diablo 3 for example. Sure, get to level 70 then run rifts until end of season. But every rift is different, monsters have different abilities, and it's not the same loot every time. Also you do get to progress, better gear allows you to run harder modes, for more challenge. That's called EndGame. Elite lacks that part big time.

I agree with you on ED being repetitive at times, but what makes you feel numb is your own choices in game.
ED does not have an end game mechanism because it does not end! The galaxy in ED is a living thing, your actions affect the way it lives.

The game does not target a constantly challenging storymode or anything.

 

[Bloodsign]

What I don't get is how something like this could have FDev stymied for 6 months.

Do they not have standard variable checks in their code? Simply run an occasional analysis of whether actual values (max shield strength for instance) are possible given a ship's frame and load out. If not, then there's either been a coding error elsewhere on FDevs part, or a hacktool is being used.

 

[babelfisch]

You can learn about that from posts of two live forums and one huge ex-forum.And some private discord chanell.

These posts tell a different story than Ryan's posts though.

 

[Tikanderoga]

ED does not have an end game mechanism because it does not end! The galaxy in ED is a living thing, your actions affect the way it lives.

Actually, it doesn't.

Your actions have little to no impact on the galaxy. Sure you can swing who controls a system. But what does that change? Nothing!
The economy keeps on going, exactly as it was before. A system remains a democracy, might go into boom, might change its allegiance, but that has ZERO impact on the game itself.
You can kill thargoids as much as you want, a system with Goids will still get their system flipped to "damaged" on Thargoid-Thrusday.
You can sit there and watch a damaged station burn. The population never decreases. You can rescue 150 people, and you have the same amount of people on the station as you did before. Repeat 100 times, and you should have 15000 people less on the station.

An impact would be: You smuggle tons of nerve agents or uranium to a system to supply a group who then nukes a planet. There is impact.
That 700 tons of Titanium that you jetisoned in Supercruise while going at 20 times the speed of light impacted on a planet and had a devastating effect. (hole in planet, planet blew up, giant crater).
Someone crashed into a coriolis station and managed to stop it from spinning.

Your ship has a large mass. More mass means smaller objects gets moved aside. Why can't I move a 200t or 500t rock with my 1600t Anaconda? If my Thrusters are strong enough to move my ship loaded at 1600t, the asteroid should budge, yet it remains where it is, unfazed by a 1600t of a solid mass crashing into it.

If it'd be a living galaxy, you could make an impact. you could take 10 or 100 Anacondas and push Hutton Orbital closer to the Nav Buoy.
Changing who controls the system isn't really an impact.

 

[Schmack]

What I don't get is how something like this could have FDev stymied for 6 months.

Do they not have standard variable checks in their code? Simply run an occasional analysis of whether actual values (max shield strength for instance) are possible given a ship's frame and load out. If not, then there's either been a coding error elsewhere on FDevs part, or a hacktool is being used.

They aren't stymied. It's not on the front burner for them because it doesn't affect their bottom line. If this was a new release and there were cheaters threatening to destroy the CGs, they'd do something faster. Right now it's just a bunch of players goofing off and collecting salt from salt collectors.

Cheating has always existed in this game. It only begins to matter when select groups are affected.

 

[Schmack]

Actually, it doesn't.

Your actions have little to no impact on the galaxy. Sure you can swing who controls a system. But what does that change? Nothing!
The economy keeps on going, exactly as it was before. A system remains a democracy, might go into boom, might change its allegiance, but that has ZERO impact on the game itself.
You can kill thargoids as much as you want, a system with Goids will still get their system flipped to "damaged" on Thargoid-Thrusday.
You can sit there and watch a damaged station burn. The population never decreases. You can rescue 150 people, and you have the same amount of people on the station as you did before. Repeat 100 times, and you should have 15000 people less on the station.

An impact would be: You smuggle tons of nerve agents or uranium to a system to supply a group who then nukes a planet. There is impact.
That 700 tons of Titanium that you jetisoned in Supercruise while going at 20 times the speed of light impacted on a planet and had a devastating effect. (hole in planet, planet blew up, giant crater).
Someone crashed into a coriolis station and managed to stop it from spinning.

Your ship has a large mass. More mass means smaller objects gets moved aside. Why can't I move a 200t or 500t rock with my 1600t Anaconda? If my Thrusters are strong enough to move my ship loaded at 1600t, the asteroid should budge, yet it remains where it is, unfazed by a 1600t of a solid mass crashing into it.

If it'd be a living galaxy, you could make an impact. you could take 10 or 100 Anacondas and push Hutton Orbital closer to the Nav Buoy.
Changing who controls the system isn't really an impact.

The game changes so much that it's almost more like parallel universes than a living galaxy. One day you can collect materials from Belugas pretty easily. The next the Belugas have prox mines and jump away as soon as you open fire. One day you can haul passenger for 40m a trip. The next you cannot get 2 mil. One day your A rated ship that you spent a year trying to achieve is made obsolete by the next level of grind power creep, which is made almost obsolete by yet another. One day you find a great slave trade route. The next day the magical hand of god kills that for you.

The game changes exponentially more due to hand of god things than BGS things. I can cross the galaxy and nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing that you have ever done will be apparent to me. The only things that are apparent are things the hand of god has done. You cannot so much as leave a footprint on a planet surface, for as soon as you leave that instance you didn't exist.

 

[Cmdr Beteran]

You can kill thargoids as much as you want, a system with Goids will still get their system flipped to "damaged" on Thargoid-Thrusday.
You can sit there and watch a damaged station burn. The population never decreases. You can rescue 150 people, and you have the same amount of people on the station as you did before. Repeat 100 times, and you should have 15000 people less on the station.

Fair points, I agree with you on these.

An impact would be: You smuggle tons of nerve agents or uranium to a system to supply a group who then nukes a planet. There is impact.
That 700 tons of Titanium that you jetisoned in Supercruise while going at 20 times the speed of light impacted on a planet and had a devastating effect. (hole in planet, planet blew up, giant crater).
Someone crashed into a coriolis station and managed to stop it from spinning.

Your ship has a large mass. More mass means smaller objects gets moved aside. Why can't I move a 200t or 500t rock with my 1600t Anaconda? If my Thrusters are strong enough to move my ship loaded at 1600t, the asteroid should budge, yet it remains where it is, unfazed by a 1600t of a solid mass crashing into it.

If it'd be a living galaxy, you could make an impact. you could take 10 or 100 Anacondas and push Hutton Orbital closer to the Nav Buoy.
Changing who controls the system isn't really an impact.

You sound like you're obsessed with "physical" impact.
And how would the consequences be between sessions? Someone blew up a planet in Open, would I not be able to find that planet in Solo? Me and my 10 friends in a private session pushed Abraham Lincoln Station in Sol further beyond Pluto, would that trolling be noticed by anyone in Open?

All your examples would mess up the game to some extent. Any examples on positive impact?

 

[Midian Cabal]

All the "you cheat too" accusations flying around are pointless. Some of the people here being accused of this or that are some of the best content providers, and they often live stream their game so if they do something that's questionable then everyone questions it. They might accuse someone of cheating, as an outburst perhaps in a stream but many here, like myself, only play in Solo or private groups, so no one can see our questionable acts.

There's no reason for people to attack each other here. I doubt the cheaters are posting here. Attacking each other means basically the terrorists have already won.

Cheating is a cancer because it erodes trust, that's the biggest problem. It is not a big problem if a cheater kills me from time to time (until it becomes really rampant), but it's a big problem if I yell: "CHEATER" every time someone kills me.

When a company doesn't do enough to protect both its business and me as a player, then the trust is lost as well and I start getting a feeling that I am not being treated as a respected customer, but as someone who's only good enough to be milked for money.

When a company doesn't stop cheats after 6 months and when it doesn't say anything even when it (shadow) bans cheater, then people start thinking that cheating in their games is not a problem and they'll start doing it more and more.

Since both us players and FD are on the same side because we all love this game (both for us and for DB this game is the game of the lifetime), it would be awesome if:

• FD would start better protecting their business by being more diligent in implementing anti-cheat measures.
• FD would have a permanent communication and active communication with players that discover bugs. Many of us are developers and I'm sure it would be both fun for us to discover security holes and profitable for FD's business to increase security of their product.
• FD would show us that they are doing their best to protect both their business and us as players by either periodically stating (no, 6 months isn't good enough) how many players have they banned and in which way, or by showing everyone in real time in their clients who has been banned and why.

Cheating has become a big problem in the gaming industry, and many other companies are using everything available to them to the maximum possible extent in order to give their players safe games, free of cheaters. Even legislators are slowly starting to recognise how big the problem is. In South Korea creating cheats and hacks for games is a criminal offence.

 

[Bigmaec]

They aren't stymied. It's not on the front burner for them because it doesn't affect their bottom line. If this was a new release and there were cheaters threatening to destroy the CGs, they'd do something faster. Right now it's just a bunch of players goofing off and collecting salt from salt collectors.

Cheating has always existed in this game. It only begins to matter when select groups are affected.

It affects everyone in this game. But select groups try to shut their eyes to this out of convenience and to nurse a grudge.

 

[Midian Cabal]

Engineering is optional, you want better than intended (see Valorin's quote above)


Travel is a crucial and fundamental element in this game, and going all the way to Colonia is a choice.



Guardian stuff is totally optional, you want better than intended (see Valorin's quote above)



I agree with you on ED being repetitive at times, but what makes you feel numb is your own choices in game.
ED does not have an end game mechanism because it does not end! The galaxy in ED is a living thing, your actions affect the way it lives.

The game does not target a constantly challenging storymode or anything.

I'll follow your line of logic: any ship after the Sidewinder is optional. Playing this game is optional.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

Actually, it doesn't.

Your actions have little to no impact on the galaxy. Sure you can swing who controls a system. But what does that change? Nothing!
The economy keeps on going, exactly as it was before. A system remains a democracy, might go into boom, might change its allegiance, but that has ZERO impact on the game itself.
You can kill thargoids as much as you want, a system with Goids will still get their system flipped to "damaged" on Thargoid-Thrusday.
You can sit there and watch a damaged station burn. The population never decreases. You can rescue 150 people, and you have the same amount of people on the station as you did before. Repeat 100 times, and you should have 15000 people less on the station.

An impact would be: You smuggle tons of nerve agents or uranium to a system to supply a group who then nukes a planet. There is impact.
That 700 tons of Titanium that you jetisoned in Supercruise while going at 20 times the speed of light impacted on a planet and had a devastating effect. (hole in planet, planet blew up, giant crater).
Someone crashed into a coriolis station and managed to stop it from spinning.

Your ship has a large mass. More mass means smaller objects gets moved aside. Why can't I move a 200t or 500t rock with my 1600t Anaconda? If my Thrusters are strong enough to move my ship loaded at 1600t, the asteroid should budge, yet it remains where it is, unfazed by a 1600t of a solid mass crashing into it.

If it'd be a living galaxy, you could make an impact. you could take 10 or 100 Anacondas and push Hutton Orbital closer to the Nav Buoy.
Changing who controls the system isn't really an impact.

Wiser words were never spoken. The “impact” you have on the Galaxy amounts to numbers and text on a screen changing to other numbers and text on a screen.

 

[Jack Schitt]

[...] Grind is anything that is just mind numbing and repetitive. [...]

That definition is subjective though. As an example, repeated jump-honk-scoop with only the occasional buzz of discovering something interesting is precisely why I have an account dedicated to long-range exploration. When I get to the end of the day and I don't have the time or inclination for mission running or combat, it lets me zone out for half an hour or so. It's almost hypnotic. If there's such a thing as the "opposite of grind", at least in terms of how it makes me feel when I'm doing it, it's probably this.

Some of the other loops I'd be more likely label as "grindy" depending on what things I'm trying to achieve at the time and how quickly I'd like to achieve them. But again it's subjective; there may be people out there who feel the same way about collecting Engineer materials as I do about jump-honk-scoop. Each to their own. It's in the nature of the size and scope of all the Elite games that slow, repetitive and uneventful is often the default position. That's just probability. The other stuff must be sought out.

But regardless of the size or position of the window between fun and grind, I could never see it as a justification for cheating in an environment that has an effect on other players. And unfortunately ED will always be such an environment unless FD release the server code at the game's end of life. I'm not convinced they ever will, but if they do I'll be all over those hacks then.

 

[Marcus Tullius]

Well, a man has said *There is no problem people are doing mistakes, the problem is that people are not learning from their mistakes * FD doesn't understand how the MMO games are working for almost 5 years. No, I don't want to play a MMO game in which a cheater can advance faster than me; I don't want to play a MMO game in which a cheater can kill me because he is using certain software. I've been a loyal customer of FD for 5 years, but FD prefer to keep the cheater and lose me. It's their right to do that, but it's my right to stop being a loyal customer of FD.

 

[Midian Cabal]

Wiser words were never spoken. The “impact” you have on the Galaxy amounts to numbers and text on a screen changing to other numbers and text on a screen.

Because of that I stopped playing for 4 years, after 1.3 and PP hit the servers.

 

[bootsam]

Cheats affect everyone. I stopped playing online MP FPS years ago, because its rife. Once a game becomes a haven for hackers, I quit. There is no point playing a game when hackers and cheats permeat every aspect of the game. I honestly never expected it in ED. Sure bugs and glitching goes on, but thats not the same to me. Thats oppurtunism and something thats part of the environment of the game. Like finding a tenner in the street. Hacking is like pick pocketing the tenner or stealing it.

I'm on my summer hiatus from the game atm and shall watch this carefully. Should it still be a thing come autumn/winter, then I shall seriously give thought to leaving permanently. I cant be seen to support a game that allows hacks and cheats or one that does little to prevent it. I hope FDev nip this in the bud as it will be the death of ED imho. If it goes unchecked.

 

[PaxtonNewt]

This is a PC-only problem, yes? I'm assuming all data going back and forth over the network is encrypted, so the game itself needs to be modified (vs. data packets) in order to cheat.

See, I keep telling folks that ED should have been a Playstation exclusive

oh god no..elite just on a playstation would = suicide for me.. PC and O-Rift = bliss