Wasn't developed by Frontier Developments.
Frontier First Encounters was the first game developed by Frontier Developments, although the galaxy simulation tech was already created at that point (ported from Frontier Elite 2).
Frontier First Encounters was the first game developed by Frontier Developments, although the galaxy simulation tech was already created at that point (ported from Frontier Elite 2).
That was Braben's work, on his own - 1 man dev team. I'm sure he gave the Dev team a lot of input and advice.
Should have used a Diamond axe!
Ok Mr. Pedant, you know what i meant.
We still don't know if anybody is doing that or if it's a fake. I mean, maybe somebody got some information from somewhere, but mailed just so from an employee? Sounds like nonsense to me.
You kinda removed the context of the statement. While GTA has a closed up game world that also uses fantasy versions of real life places. It's open world, but not a simulation. Same with Witcher, just fantasy only in that case.
Elite though is still very much a simulation created with a lot of science in it.
Apart from that, the GTA game worlds are pretty much complete for the gameplay purposes the games have been made for. Any planet I can't land on is the equivalent of an invisible wall that would prevent you to enter a street in GTA.
That said, I actually play Elite a lot, but I also get him. I want atmospheric landings, for everything else I can play so many other games.
But where does it end? Suppose we have atmo planets and spacelegs, then what? Are we to expect being able to walk into every office in every space station? Every street of every city on every planet? There are going to be invisible walls any way you put it, always, no matter what.
Well, you can try. But keep in mind loitering is a crime punishable by death!
Ah, tell me more about your visits to ammonia worlds and studies of the local wildlife and their evolutionary processes!
just kidding, but I think with aliens from entirely different environments using entirely different chamical compositions and external pressures, we have very little idea what would or wouldn't make sense.Those "legs" could have made a LOT of sense early on in their evolution (before they even fully developed the arms and thumbs even?) I dunno how, but, you see what I mean.
Anyway, just look at the duck billed platypus if you wanna see weird examples of evolution.
Last edited:
Ah, tell me more about your visits to ammonia worlds and studies of the local wildlife and their evolutionary processes!
Those "legs" could have made a LOT of sense early on in their evolution (before they even fully developed the arms and thumbs even?) I dunno how, but, you see what I mean.
Anyway, just look at the duck billed platypus if you wanna see weird examples of evolution.
Hell, it could just as easily be that they can manipulate other beings (pheromones, or even more outlandish things akin to telepathy) into doing manual labor. The idea that aliens must mimick our evolutionary path is a bit silly.
Those little scavenger things could be the ultimate result of that - after they modified them... Endless possibilities.
Deleted member 38366
D
Hm, careful though with that.
In a sense, they did (multiple) Galaxy Simulators before. See previous ELITE titles. The current one just happens to try to resemble the actual Galaxy as good as it could with their existing ProcGen tech.
And yes, several others already did. There's even an Indie production featuring the entire known Universe (!) (as good as that's possible).
On the argument "no previous experience", one very important Example comes to my mind : MMO Design.
ED was their first for all I know.
And as expected - even many years into the production - they still haven't got some of the basics right. They still struggle with even very simple balancing issues.
The lack of experience shows drastically, having observed them making proverbial "n00b mistakes" instead of proactively learning from other MMO titles and avoid a few simple pot holes. Instead they ran straight into them despite all warnings.
So to me "lack of experience" is a very valid concern. Not a rant - but a concern and given their track record a very realistic one.
PS.
It gets worse when we i.e. specifically talk about something like FPS or Space Legs.
Simple reason : alot of folks have played dozens of FPS titles in the past, many of them outstanding.
That leads to certain automatic "minimum expectations", simply because the benchmark hurdle has been pushed quite high by all those other titles.
So getting those Players to say a mere "yeah, that's quite okay" alone requires significant Quality Standards already. That's not easy to do.
(and now toss in their traditional tendency to half-bake a brand new Feature consisting of only the most basic of mechanics but lack Gameplay and let that sit untouched for months or even years.... and we're talking a serious risk of botching what is now a Premium DLC right there if one was to assume it was to include FPS/Space Legs)
Anyway, we'll see. Time will tell all by itself
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Hm, careful though with that.
In a sense, they did (multiple) Galaxy Simulators before. See previous ELITE titles. The current one just happens to try to resemble the actual Galaxy as good as it could with their existing ProcGen tech.
And yes, several others already did. There's even an Indie production featuring the entire known Universe (!) (as good as that's possible).
On the argument "no previous experience", one very important Example comes to my mind : MMO Design.
ED was their first for all I know.
And as expected - even many years into the production - they still haven't got some of the basics right. They still struggle with even very simple balancing issues.
The lack of experience shows drastically, having observed them making proverbial "n00b mistakes" instead of proactively learning from other MMO titles and avoid a few simple pot holes. Instead they ran straight into them despite all warnings.
So to me "lack of experience" is a very valid concern. Not a rant - but a concern and given their track record a very realistic one.
PS.
It gets worse when we i.e. specifically talk about something like FPS or Space Legs.
Simple reason : alot of folks have played dozens of FPS titles in the past, many of them outstanding.
That leads to certain automatic "minimum expectations", simply because the benchmark hurdle has been pushed quite high by all those other titles.
So getting those Players to say a mere "yeah, that's quite okay" alone requires significant Quality Standards already. That's not easy to do.
(and now toss in their traditional tendency to half-bake a brand new Feature consisting of only the most basic of mechanics but lack Gameplay and let that sit untouched for months or even years.... and we're talking a serious risk of botching what is now a Premium DLC right there if one was to assume it was to include FPS/Space Legs)
Anyway, we'll see. Time will tell all by itself
Re previous experience in MMOs, I fully agree, not much. I would add for consideration and mitigation though that Elite´s has also the difficulty (or record if you want to see it that way) of being the first, and probably sole, MMO built around a twitch based first person cockpit simulation experience, as opposed to a point and click one. The former I believe imposes a completely different burden in the MMO related networking elements compared to the usual point and click paradigm so far in most MMOs.
Re space legs, I think that for the time this looked like quite a reasonable experience to be built by FDEV. Now, adding another twitch first person based element to the MMO will also increase complexity no doubt.
I am not sure if their implementation of MMO aspects is really caused by inexperience. As you said it yourself, they could learn from other MMO titles, and I often thought and asked myself: "Haven't they played any MMOs"?
Recently we were discussing if ED is an MMO or not, and I dug out an interview with DB in which he says that ED isn't an MMO because there are solo and PG modes as well. And then it occurred me that it's easy to design an MMO when eveyone is lumped into only one gaming universe, but how do you design an MMO that works for a single player, or for a small group just as good as for everyone else that's in the same universe?
I haven't play any other sandbox MMOs (are GTA and Eve sandbox MMOs?) and I still haven't found an answer to that question...
Deleted member 38366
D
Hm, Cockpit based MMOs aren't new (?). Heck I played one in the 90's via Analog Modem (and a ton that I didn't play later)
So for all I know, that merely sets the environment. A minor challenge for the UI design at best (efficient Interaction/Communication).
The rest is the exact same as Single Player. The Cockpits remain the same as there's little difference in operating them in an MMO or Single Player environment.
I did recall their abandoned/canceled IP footage.
Apart from looking like a poor and redundant GTA clone (GTA 4 at that time was a few years old already and had set its own standards), I'm quite confident most Devs who once designed and worked on that IP are no longer with FDev.
Thus, any experience the company had with that is likely gone and what little remains is somewhat obsolete by today's standards.
It likely was obsolete and insufficient already at the time the decision was made for this project to be scrapped.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Hm, Cockpit based MMOs aren't new (?). Heck I played one in the 90's via Analog Modem (and a ton that I didn't play later)
Honestly curious, such as?
Regarding networking the differences between twitch and point and click I would imagine are substantial. The more clear and dramatic example I can offer is EVE and how the population in instances compare to Elite. I would imagine the amount of information that is transmitted and required in real time (or as close to it as current technology allows) for twitch cockpit based games (as opposed to allow things like time dilation like EVE) is huge compared to point and click. Even in arena / map type cockpit based games (i.e. not even MMOs) like DCS you rarely see more than 20-30 (some upper limits go to 60+) players in a single scenario because the server starts to cough its lungs.
Well, that is a bit jumping to personal conclusions me thinks. Pretty sure that at the very least some of the learning curve and lessons there are very much still with the company and applicable today. Also if they did it once there is a good precedent to see them do it again.
Now, now, that seems a bit of a gratuitous speculation again
Do you have any source on that?
Last edited:
oh, there is. the other 'shooter' they actually released, elite:dangerous, is there for evaluation. funny nobody mentioned that as experience. and they also could have learned form that too, that's actually the point of making mistakes.
but you have a point of course, experience is not everything, and predictions will always be just that, predictions. and how do we even measure that? i made a point that this type of games is not their forte and although that's clearly visible on this very one, it's just my opinion. don't quite see the need to go to the opposite extreme act as if i had denied them any talent whatsoever, or that a discarded project is somehow a guarantee. go figure but, anyhow ...
... yeah, very subjective indeed!
As for the basebuilding, if Fdev can make it focus on the squadron building up a base it would be nice. otherwise as a single player? Just no. you will make any important moon overcrowded with them and what if 2 people in different instances build on one place and then they log to the same instance?
first come first serve, same as discoveries, you keep track of claimed lands and deny settlement on that spot to any second comer for whatever stupid reason. e.g., to be true to frontier's ethos: "this action is not available in this mode".
if pvp gets a pass in this scenario i see even less problem for base building.