So there’s currently a Cmdr stuck in the slot, station defences having no affect, assumed he’s proving a point about cheats...

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sollisb

Banned
S
znôrt said:
no, i actually dismissed it for being unrelated to the act of protest and its effects.

i mean, oa is also wrong in demanding immediate action, i grant you this. he clearly has lost all sense of proportion, and this is not what is being asked here. but this is not what the protest is about (it is about, in part, in rallying people like oa, so has worked well so far). frontier has to solve this in any manner they see fit, but it has to work. it doesn't. still doesn't. people are mocking them. they should do something about that if they mind. something. this is the point.
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mate that's rubbish. You do not leave a player openly cheating online in your game. Obviously they are not going to fix it overnight. But at the same time, they can demonstrate a willingness to instantly cut off a player known to be cheating.

If we use your mentality, FDev will allow everyone and sundry to download this cheat, use it as they see fit, until such time as they are redy to code a fix? Come on! That's just farcical to the extreme.
 

znôrt

znôrt
Schmack said:
But player-versus-player types don't have any more right to swift action than anyone else has. Your gameplay style doesn't entitle you to special consideration. Cheaters should still be dealt with on a case-by-case basis
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i agree with this.

Schmack said:
and I don't believe any special statement needs to be made to the player-versus-player groups.
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op doesn't seem to agree with this and neither do i.

again, this is not about a single cheat. we're long past that. it's about the whole situation. claims to immediately take down that "offender" are just blown out of proportion, but that's what happens in 'opinion wars', that's actually the point of raising awarenes. get people talking about stuff and, hopefully, learn about it.

the trust is gone, this is the situation now, and it spells that frontier hasn't been dilligent in what you so correctly exposed in the previus quote. for this ... hell yes, they need to come forward.

they probably won't (just judging from past experiences), autopilot seems on like usual. the effect this time we don't know.
 

sollisb

Banned
S
Voracity_T said:
In this particular case yes, but not across the board.

If they are to start banning people instantly for whatever thier on-site detection picks up, it's only oing to take the developer of the cheat engine a short while to collaborate reports of what particular aspects of the engine these cmdrs were using and work out what is getting them detected. Thus resulting in the cheat engine getting fixed, more than likely, before FDev can effectively close the net so to speak.
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This where active GMs are invaluable. They are available 24/7 and instantly remove someone they see and feel, are cheating until such time as an investigation proves otherwise.
 

znôrt

znôrt
sollisb said:
If we use your mentality, FDev will allow everyone and sundry to download this cheat, use it as they see fit, until such time as they are redy to code a fix? Come on! That's just farcical to the extreme.
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what mentality? you probably misunderstood me.

of course in an ideal setting this 'performance' should not have been left unchecked. however the fact that it was doesn't really surprise me. does it surprise you? it certainly surprised oa. now "fix this nao!!!" is an understandable reaction, but it really doesn't address the issue. it's not about fixing 'this', but questioning their whole approach to cheating in general. the hour long performance is just the caricature of all this.

this is like asking for death penalty for murder. it might make feel someone better (go figure) but it has no demonstrable impact on murder rates.
 

Trekari

T
According to ObsidianAnt, he was there for an hour and a half before someone moved him out of the way with their Cutter.

And Frontier did nothing, and continues to do nothing.
 

CDOTS

C
And this is why I stopped playing pvp in open. I had a fully engineered vette and got interdicted then died in 8 or 10 seconds by an Anaconda.
 

znôrt

znôrt
CDOTS said:
And this is why I stopped playing pvp in open. I had a fully engineered vette and got interdicted then died in 8 or 10 seconds by an Anaconda.
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that's not exactly the same issue 😅 that's fully legal!!!
but yeah, it boils down to a poorly thought out and mismanaged multiplayer system
 

CDOTS

C
znôrt said:
that's not exactly the same issue 😅 that's fully legal!!!
but yeah, it boils down to a poorly thought out and mismanaged multiplayer system
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Actually it is . They have super shields and they can also up the damage output of their guns. When I say 8 to 10 seconds that is including the interdiction. Either way good luck to Fdev because this program has been around for over 20 years. To make it worse there are even programs that scan grids so players can find certain things. Stuff like this has destroyed games in the past.

P.s. there isn't a player in Elite that can take me down In 8 seconds legitimately.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Mangal Oemie said:
You mean... for about a week?

When 3.3 dropped, the hack tools broke. It took them 3 days to fix it and make it work again. It took FD about 3 weeks to make 3.3 work at all.
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Umm.. nope. As far as i'm aware, the public hack stopped working around the start of 2018 (3.3 was end of 2018 right?). That's about when the hackers went dark.

I have no idea how long it took for the hackers to get a new working version after that, because of course, i could no longer see what they were doing.

From what we understand now, there was a new hack working by the end of 2018. How many times FD stopped the hack working before and after that i have no idea. Only someone who has access to the closed forum/discord might be able to provide that info.

If you read the public cheat forums you can track the periods when FD stopped the cheat working and how long it took for the hackers to fix it.

So... anyone with access to the private group? Can you dig back and track the periods of fixes and breaks? Perhaps make a handy chart? This will enable us to see how this game of cat and mouse has developed over the months. Or is it truly unbroken? Have the cheat devs had a working version without breaks for months? Or are they just quick at getting a new working version?

Actually Mangal, you seem to have insider info! Please share! 3 days to make a fix by the hackers. Not surprising. What about other patches? Did FD have any other (short lived) victories?
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Ian Skippy said:
A solution is just fine, doesn't have to be magical. There is no need to pretend there is absolutely no way to make it less easy to cheat than it is in ED.
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Devs can close loopholes and make it harder, but the hackers will always find a way. Someone just posted other games have been ruined back hackers, and its true. Once you have hackers interested in your game, it tends to become a never ending war until they get bored or the game stops development.

There is no magic bullet and depending on the game, its arcititecture, and the ingenurity of the hackers vs those of the devs. Sometimes it can be possible to stop the hackers, but it can come at a cost to the game, perhaps in terms of features or performance.

People can rant and rage all they want, if FD can't permanently beat the hackers, then we have to live with it.

Thank FD for PGs and solo, where you can avoid cheats and in PGs veto those who join, and kick those who are cheating.
 

Daniel Cloudsifter

Daniel Cloudsifter
Siobhan said:
Fair enough. I still think it's pointless on the whole, but yeah, it's right to point it out.
Oh well... time to start promoting SOPP (Solo Only Power Play)
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Only problem there is that you've now touched on the other issue that has been reported and no one knows how well FDEV has responded: botting. Groups of players were using scripting to affect the BGS and/or Power Play. That can be done while in Solo mode. In fact, I think that is a part of the reason the Open advocates wanted PP to go Open only.

Another thorn of contention is with the only official "response" we know of from Frontier: Bans to Solo. If these players are caught cheating or botting, they are banned to Solo for a period of time or permanently to Solo, depending on criteria laid out by Frontier. So even when cheaters are "banned" they are still going to be able to affect the BGS and Power Play. Yes, the god-mode cheats may not help much with that. However, the ability to instantly jump from anywhere to anywhere else - like from the PP HQ straight to the delivery station - could cause problems even in Solo PP. Same with the BGS.

I really don't understand why the punishments are so light when the infractions are so egregious. I can understand not being to harsh for first offenders, but when your Perma-ban still allows you to play (solo only)... wow.

As a side note, it's also demeaning to those of us who primarily play solo. Cheaters can hack and the worst punishment they will face is being exiled to the mode we play in by choice.
 

Schmack

Schmack
znôrt said:
i agree with this.



op doesn't seem to agree with this and neither do i.

again, this is not about a single cheat. we're long past that. it's about the whole situation. claims to immediately take down that "offender" are just blown out of proportion, but that's what happens in 'opinion wars', that's actually the point of raising awarenes. get people talking about stuff and, hopefully, learn about it.

the trust is gone, this is the situation now, and it spells that frontier hasn't been dilligent in what you so correctly exposed in the previus quote. for this ... hell yes, they need to come forward.

they probably won't (just judging from past experiences), autopilot seems on like usual. the effect this time we don't know.
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Coming forward is different than coming forward exclusively for the sake of player-versus-player. There is one user base and the users all have different styles and those styles can change at any given moment. There's no reason Frontier needs to focus their response on one subgroup of people who are not any more adversely affected than anyone else - they are just more vocal about it and more willing to inconvenience other players to get their way.
 

Schmack

Schmack
Daniel Cloudsifter said:
Only problem there is that you've now touched on the other issue that has been reported and no one knows how well FDEV has responded: botting. Groups of players were using scripting to affect the BGS and/or Power Play. That can be done while in Solo mode. In fact, I think that is a part of the reason the Open advocates wanted PP to go Open only.

Another thorn of contention is with the only official "response" we know of from Frontier: Bans to Solo. If these players are caught cheating or botting, they are banned to Solo for a period of time or permanently to Solo, depending on criteria laid out by Frontier. So even when cheaters are "banned" they are still going to be able to affect the BGS and Power Play. Yes, the god-mode cheats may not help much with that. However, the ability to instantly jump from anywhere to anywhere else - like from the PP HQ straight to the delivery station - could cause problems even in Solo PP. Same with the BGS.

I really don't understand why the punishments are so light when the infractions are so egregious. I can understand not being to harsh for first offenders, but when your Perma-ban still allows you to play (solo only)... wow.

As a side note, it's also demeaning to those of us who primarily play solo. Cheaters can hack and the worst punishment they will face is being exiled to the mode we play in by choice.
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Well obviously I've never been there but my understanding of the tree of Woe here at Frontier Developments is that players are relegated to a shadowban and put on a server where there is no BGS cross-contamination.

I've even inquired in the past if it would be possible for me to go there voluntarily but no one responded.
 

CMDR Etherreality

CMDR Etherreality
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