Roadmap leaked??

[znôrt]

I'm not sure where people get that from since, at least for me, the orbit lines do show up in VR (in the FSS).. although they seem to regularly turn themselves off for some reason (both in VR and non-VR) since the last update. Or perhaps my VA is playing up.

i think he means that while initial vr support was enthusiastic, the latter much less so, and fss is a good example. keep in mind it's just a screengrab in 3d, it doesn't get cheaper. the usability is just 2d in vr, which is meh. if i look around i even still see a weird wireframe around me, that's just unfinished or what? if you take into account that the whole thing didn't even work at release beta suspiciously looks like "oh, bytheway, will it work in vr? well, i guess so, it compiled without warnings ... ok, then let's release already".

 

[Lordxenu]

But VR is still very niche and it was even more so when the interview with DB was made.

It was but it was also the next big thing coming to gaming whereas now it doesnt quite seem to have got the traction its promise suggested.

 

[Arioch]

First person VR locomotion is a mixed bag for me. In LA Noire, where elevation changes are minimal and distances to walk are short, it works wonderfully.
Skyrim modded to full locmotion is on the other hand too much for me. I have enough VR hours not to get outright sick, but once I put off the HMD I realize I'm sweating and it just doesn't feel right.

As about spacelegs, the disproportionate resources to make it right makes me think it will be flawed and/or delayed. To have it right in the Elite world with meaningful content is pipe dream IMHO.

That’s unfortunate about SkyrimVR, it’s my second most-played VR game after ED.

I’m not expecting VR implementation of Legs to be up to the standard of dedicated VR games like Lone Echo with full inverse kinematics etc, but more like the Alien Isolation VR mod. I currently like using the vanity cam as pseudo-EVA so any advance on that is a win in my book.

@Valorin - I also wish to see atmospherics before legs, my view of ED being “complete” for me is when it has all the stuff FE2 had, then anything extra is a bonus.

 

[Ian Skippy]

i think he means that while initial vr support was enthusiastic, the latter much less so, and fss is a good example. keep in mind it's just a screengrab in 3d, it doesn't get cheaper. the usability is just 2d in vr, which is meh. if i look around i even still see a weird wireframe around me, that's just unfinished or what? if you take into account that the whole thing didn't even work at release it suspiciously looks like "oh, bytheway, will it work in vr? well, i guess so, it compiled without warnings ... ok, then let's release already".

It worked at launch, it didn't when beta launched. But FD always launched broken betas with a pile of things they know doesn't work. Betas are sneak peeks, nothing more.

 

[znôrt]

It worked at launch, it didn't when beta launched.

i sit corrected.

 

[DMC831]

I do worry about fellow VR-ers and the locomotion issue; I'm one of those lucky people who just don't get VR-sick, and Skyrim VR caused no problems and even Fallout 4 locked at 45 frames (so it'd play at a steady framerate for me) felt totally fine. But everyone is so different here, I gotta hope they at least have plenty of comfort settings for people to try out.

Maybe NMS will knock their VR out of the park and Elite will feel competitive about matching it. C'mon Hello Games, ya blew it big once but you're on a hot streak, keep it going...!

For the folks who feel sick from things like SRVing in VR, do ya just avoid that gameplay entirely? Or only do it on a flatscreen? A mix of both? It'd be super lame to feel like they gotta avoid Space Legs, I'm crossing my fingers it's not so bad.

 

[duffbeeeer]

It was but it was also the next big thing coming to gaming whereas now it doesnt quite seem to have got the traction its promise suggested.

imo its still on the road as the next big thing. its just taking longer then expected. hardware iterations take more time than software.

the upcoming space legs dlc falls into the release window of the new consoles. sony will integrate vr into ps5 for sure and ms will likely follow at some point. fd is betting on that I guess.

additionaly vr has made great strides towards mass adaption with inside out tracking. it may not be as good as old tracking methods but much easier use of vr will open the topic up for alot of newcomers. I think the future for VR and elite is bright.

 

[Micha]

i think he means that while initial vr support was enthusiastic, the latter much less so, and fss is a good example. keep in mind it's just a screengrab in 3d, it doesn't get cheaper. the usability is just 2d in vr, which is meh. if i look around i even still see a weird wireframe around me, that's just unfinished or what? if you take into account that the whole thing didn't even work at release it suspiciously looks like "oh, bytheway, will it work in vr? well, i guess so, it compiled without warnings ... ok, then let's release already".

True true.. there's various parts of the game that are, while not exactly "broken" definitely not "VR Friendly", and some of these are very old parts of the game. Which is a huge shame because most of it works very well in VR. It shouldn't take a huge effort to polish it up. But that's a general problem - so many bits and pieces which are almost, but not quite, perfect. Unfortunately overall it gives the impression of a game which is still very much in development rather than production.

 

[Midian Cabal]

It was but it was also the next big thing coming to gaming whereas now it doesnt quite seem to have got the traction its promise suggested.

It will grow, but the biggest growth is expected in the standalone segment.

 

[znôrt]

True true.. there's various parts of the game that are, while not exactly "broken" definitely not "VR Friendly", and some of these are very old parts of the game. Which is a huge shame because most of it works very well in VR. It shouldn't take a huge effort to polish it up. But that's a general problem - so many bits and pieces which are almost, but not quite, perfect. Unfortunately overall it gives the impression of a game which is still very much in development rather than production.

yes, indeed, flying around and driving around planets is an awesome vr experience, i simply have no other words, and that's actually the important bit and what brings all the other hard work (forge, terrain, lights, sound) to really shince. hope it stays so.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Agree, to say it is broken and frontier have done nothing is just not accurate.

That said the fact Adam Burke-Waite clearly hadn't thought about VR when they announced the FSS, David Braben's dislike of VR (he referred to it as very niche or something in an article CBA to dig it out) and the fact they've stopped advertising it as a VR title (blatantly on their site I know it can still be bought on Oculus store etc.).

also, some smaller things like the jumps remaining being tiny and hard to read. I get the sense Fdev are falling out with VR I hope not as I would likely put the game down if it got dropped (at which point stuff can be hazzed by all), but looking at how they view VR now vs how they sold it at the beginning it does seem to have slipped.

There was an interview with David a few months ago where he made some comments about VR and how he was very unconvinced about it (Edit: I know he'd made similar noises before). It did make me wonder whether this would have any effect on Elite in the long run. It most certainly has added time to the development of the game and as we all know time is money.

 

[DMC831]

I hope Frontier knows we've all gotten VERY strong from our roomscale VR games and we have the disposable income to go to BrabenCon or whatever it's called and show them how strong we are in person!!! It better stay the best VR game...!

 

[Lordxenu]

Im lucky enough to not suffer vr sickness i do think its hard to make a vr game and cater for everyone especially a hybrid 2d / 3d game like elite.

My worry is, if i think about it, how will controls work ive currently got a hotas, would i need to switch from that to an xbox controller or that to touch controllers or would i replace hotas with touch controllers.

And would it then become a limited interactive experience i.e. go to a panel press x whereas most vr games are got to panel pick up x and throw it around. A lot of the draw, for me, of elite in vr is immersion and i think having to switch to an xbox controller to walk around would break that and i totally dont see fdev implementing hand tracking for touch controllers etc.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

1st person stuff can work really well in VR but it needs a bit of thought. that said, fans have managed to make it work with doom 3, and other games do similar - from other suns - for those with weaker legs.
controls is not such an issue, ED allows multiple controllers to be set up at the same time so not so worried there......

but my concern and it wont affect all but i cant be the only one... i have a pretty hard to get in and out of, large flight seat. it could be fun jumping in and out of that in vr !

 

[Midian Cabal]

There was an interview with David a few months ago where he made some comments about VR and how he was very unconvinced about it (Edit: I know he'd made similar noises before). It did make me wonder whether this would have any effect on Elite in the long run. It most certainly has added time to the development of the game and as we all know time is money.

That's not really correct. What he said is: "VR is great, don't get me wrong, and I enjoy it. We've supported it wholeheartedly right from the start."
In another interview he said: "It's a wonderful experience, it is really wonderful. But it puts quite a high bar on the hardware, so my personal view is you can't run any slower than about 90 frames a second, and the resolution you really want to be 4K per eye."

He also said that it took them less time to implement support for VR than it would took them to write a business case to get the game published through another publisher.

But even if he sees VR as a [great] niche, it is important for him to show that FD is capable of supporting it (and 16k), as it puts them at the leading technological edge. Which is quite important in this business I'd say.

 

[DMC831]

I would be thrilled if they add motion controls like NMS is doing, but I am totally not expecting them to do that and I imagine I would have to switch from my HOTAS to a mouse and keyboard to move myself around on foot. I don't really mind that to be honest, especially since it's a hybrid game, but I know that can be a sticking point for some.

My setup can handle that (room to stand easily, and room for a mouse and keyboard alongside the hotas), and stuff like not being able to interact with panels with my hands via the Touch controllers (and instead needing to use a 360 controller or mouse) doesn't bug me. I'm imagining it'd be like Subnautica. I'd love for more VR-y interactions of course, but that's the level I'm expecting and I won't really be bummed by it.

I don't even know if I'd really stand when switching to Space Legs, I'm fine remaining in a chair and locomotion in VR is still fun for me. Especially since sessions of Elite are always super long sessions.

 

[Micha]

But even if he sees VR as a [great] niche, it is important for him to show that FD is capable of supporting it (and 16k), as it puts them at the leading technological edge. Which is quite important in this business I'd say.

Yeah, Elite is great in VR, but it wouldn't take much more to be excellent. Just that little bit of extra effort to really make it shine and take the rough edges off the experience.

But unfortunately FDev's approach seems to be "it mostly works, ship it, and don't touch it again unless absolutely necessary". There's enough examples of the 2D UI suffering from the same (eg, try the Galaxy Map on a super-wide monitor).

 

[Lordxenu]

I would be thrilled if they add motion controls like NMS is doing, but I am totally not expecting them to do that and I imagine I would have to switch from my HOTAS to a mouse and keyboard to move myself around on foot. I don't really mind that to be honest, especially since it's a hybrid game, but I know that can be a sticking point for some.

My setup can handle that (room to stand easily, and room for a mouse and keyboard alongside the hotas), and stuff like not being able to interact with panels with my hands via the Touch controllers (and instead needing to use a 360 controller or mouse) doesn't bug me. I'm imagining it'd be like Subnautica. I'd love for more VR-y interactions of course, but that's the level I'm expecting and I won't really be bummed by it.

I don't even know if I'd really stand when switching to Space Legs, I'm fine remaining in a chair and locomotion in VR is still fun for me. Especially since sessions of Elite are always super long sessions.

I would live with it switching to a controller although I would be disappointing but I'm sure I would still love the overall experience.

If VR stays then I'll pre order the 2020 update and buy a ton of stuff in the store as Elite in VR is my greatest gaming experience to date if VR gets dropped I'll likely sell my Oculus and skip the update. Although this sounds childish it's not meant to be a threat i'm making more my view right now. A 2d screen feels like playing a game and for that I want story and adventure and populated worlds and game mechanics (like leveling and abilities and stuff) but Elite in VR, for me, almost transcends gaming due to immersion even though Elite lacks most things I look for in a game, being in a spaceship always brings me back.

 

[nicedevill]

I don't know why everybody thinks VR will be gone with 2020 update. Doesn't make sense.

 

[VR Golgot]

That's not really correct. What he said is: "VR is great, don't get me wrong, and I enjoy it. We've supported it wholeheartedly right from the start."
In another interview he said: "It's a wonderful experience, it is really wonderful. But it puts quite a high bar on the hardware, so my personal view is you can't run any slower than about 90 frames a second, and the resolution you really want to be 4K per eye."

He also said that it took them less time to implement support for VR than it would took them to write a business case to get the game published through another publisher.

But even if he sees VR as a [great] niche, it is important for him to show that FD is capable of supporting it (and 16k), as it puts them at the leading technological edge. Which is quite important in this business I'd say.

Yeah it is worth noting that they embraced VR at a time when VR was super-super niche. And that although DB has been realistic on where VR is at on uptake, they've still done enough to nurse support along.

A Legs DLC would be an ultimate test of conviction though for sure. The potential workload there is super significant. Not just in taking it to a decent quality level, but ensuring some level of balancing with non-VR game mechanics for the PvP aspect. (It's notable that there are very few 'crossplay' online VR + 'pancake' titles. Payday 2 is one about the only mainstream one I can think of. And that's co-op, so doesn't hit the same issues).

VR consoles in 2020 would really give them a business case for taking it on. I think anything less and we'll be looking at some pretty thin gruel implementation potentially.