The problem of Interdiction by hackers and how it can be helped

Don't have to explain myself to you. Look at the protest video on youtube so you run out of excuses because people are actually cheating. The protest guy was banned from open play for showing how the cheats are done. All of your excuses are already covered pretty well on youtube.

No one has implied that there are not actual cheats. However, the whole "cheats exist, therefore anything I don't immediately understand must be a cheat", line of thought is absurdly arrogant and the number of ignorant and frivolous accusations being hurled about surely dwarf the number of actual cases by a wide margin.

By your own admission you are new to the game. How is it that you presume to know enough about the permutations of what is and is not possible, that you can instantly identify when something is amiss, let alone the mechanism responsible?

There is a video of The Kat on youtube.

The only video I can find of CMDR The Kat looks like an entirely legitimate encounter to me.
 
First, "The Kat" isn't cheating he/she is just a really seasoned player it was how I was captured/stopped that I I'm complaining about. It doesn't matter what my setup was I am complaining about how I was stopped. I figured if the person could stop me they had a better ship and I never saw their ship. Didn't even know who stopped me until I looked at the contacts log after I was blown up. I think what I had at the time was all A class, shield boosters, and I was doing a haul mission with about 15 waste and everything except 1 cargo rack was a hull and module booster. Could be wrong and my alternate would be bulk 1A Class and d class for jump range but I believe it was the latter I had done some engineering on. Like I said the first time, I escaped in blue very quickly twice, nothing like the guy in the youtube video who outright lost, but the third wave it went instant red while I was centered on the circle that's supposed to turn the bar blue. Might be an advanced version or something but didn't look right to me or I never experienced it like that. I didn't care about the ship, I can buy thousands of them just didn't like the way I was stopped or the way it looked. Haha! Live and learn I guess...
 
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First, "The Kat" isn't cheating he/she is just a really seasoned player it was how I was captured/stopped that I I'm complaining about. It doesn't matter what my setup was I am complaining about how I was stopped. I figured if the person could stop me they had a better ship and I never saw their ship. Didn't even know who stopped me until I looked at the contacts log after I was blown up. I think what I had at the time was all A class, shield boosters, and I was doing a haul mission with about 15 waste and everything except 1 cargo rack was a hull and module booster. Could be wrong and my alternate would be bulk 1A Class and d class for jump range but I believe it was the latter I had done some engineering on. Like I said the first time, I escaped in blue very quickly twice, nothing like the guy in the youtube video who outright lost, but the third wave it went instant red while I was centered on the circle that's supposed to turn the bar blue. Might be an advanced version or something but didn't look right to me or I never experienced it like that. I didn't care about the ship, I can buy thousands of them just didn't like the way I was stopped or the way it looked. Haha! Live and learn I guess...

So something like this?
https://s.orbis.zone/3g8f

That would give us something like 700MJ shields and 1050 Hull against Kinetic damage... so ~1800 Kinetic hitpoints. With my previous numbers with a Dobule shoot Frag Cannon Mamba build, that can do upto 1600 damage in one go, so about 2 shoots could be enough to take out your ship... Adding Military Grade Composite, add just another 300 hitpoints...


And the interdiction minigame relies on communication between you and the other party. And a de-sync situation can create some really strange looking effects, like the one you describe. as you think you are doing fine, and then it turns out that your client is out sync and when it catches up, it turns out that your response was not taking to account the other ships manoeuvring and then everything goes from everything is fine to what just happened moment...
Then we have all the interesting parts of who is involved when the interdiction minigame occurs... as if there more than 2 ships in the instance, everyone can follow this struggle. So here we have how the netcode is done, and the use of P2P. P2P is not in itself bad, but depending on how it is implemented can have some huge implications how it works in specific situations.
 
I will post my build as soon as I boot my game up, but for comparison, I was interdicted a week ago by a non-hacker using a Federal Corvette. He managed to kill me in the amount of time I would expect a player with a well engineered ship- I boosted twice and dropped a heat-sink before my shields were stripped, another boost later I was dead.

The interaction with the Mamba was different, I loaded into the instance and as soon as I had control of my ship from the load, I died. No boost, no turning, no "under attack" alert, no "shields disabled" alert, nothing, just the lights being cut and a message that I was killed by CMDR [insert name].

EDIT: Here is the link to my build. It says the rebuy is 4mil so maybe I got a component wrong but it should be about the same as what I use. https://s.orbis.zone/3fal

Your ship is made out of a potato. One volley of frags and you are dead.
 
Cheating is not an issue in Elite. Please go check out a game where it is, like PUBG. They have banned 13 MILLION cheaters since 2017 and it's still a major problem. You'll never complain about cheating in Elite again if you play a week of PUBG.
 
Yeah, the shields are pretty poor and will be useless to attack @ 261MJ. ...almost invisible infact.
What one does with such a trading python is to PP with that blue haired girl for three weeks to obtain the prismatic shields. Even a small generator such as 3A prismatics with G5 reinforced and Hi-cap (plus fitting all the utilities with grade ‘A’ Shield boosters and G5 them with heavy duty) will get you to 1531MJ shields.
That will buy you enough time skip town.

....oh yes, if you have the funds. Go reactive surface composite armour... and G5 that also ! G5 everything until your blue in the face! \o/

Flimley
 
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Your ship is made out of a potato. One volley of frags and you are dead.

Oooooo I posted this today... you mean like this ? \o/
GJYGq84.jpg


Flimley
 
OP - my Courier has better shields and hull than your python (and way better resists), but would only take 2 - maybe 3 on a good day - hits to see the rebuy from a 'properly' fitted ship. (assuming with boost of 750+ I couldn't retreat in a hurry!)
I ran your build against a couple of my own and could (assuming I hit) finish yours off in 7 seconds - and I'm not PvP built.

Sorry to be negative.
 
Seriously, your build is garbage. Coming from a rabid supporter of happy fun time with no killing, you frankly deserved to get blown up flying in Open like that. Source: my paper T9, which has been megagibbed by gankers a few times, has better stats.
 

Goose4291

Banned
I will post my build as soon as I boot my game up, but for comparison, I was interdicted a week ago by a non-hacker using a Federal Corvette. He managed to kill me in the amount of time I would expect a player with a well engineered ship- I boosted twice and dropped a heat-sink before my shields were stripped, another boost later I was dead.

The interaction with the Mamba was different, I loaded into the instance and as soon as I had control of my ship from the load, I died. No boost, no turning, no "under attack" alert, no "shields disabled" alert, nothing, just the lights being cut and a message that I was killed by CMDR [insert name].

EDIT: Here is the link to my build. It says the rebuy is 4mil so maybe I got a component wrong but it should be about the same as what I use. https://s.orbis.zone/3fal
 

Goose4291

Banned
I am using a Python as a transport ship to grind up a some credits by performing transport missions. I really haven't had a problem with gankers until recently when it came out that ED has a hacking problem. I've been interdicted twice now and destroyed as soon as my game loads into the instance with a single shot of whatever weapon they are using.

I get you can engineer your weapons with effects, but never have I seen anyone- in game or in a YouTube video- destroy a ship with a single shot against shields. Especially when I am not using a super low tier ship and they are using a Mamba. This experience really killed the excitement I get from sharing a universe with other players. It is one thing to role play by interdicting a player and demanding loot, it is a different thing to indiscriminately attack players who are flying ships that are not kitted for combat.

inb4 "Just don't play in open"

I play in open peacefully the same reason someone who plays World of Warcraft plays in a shared world with other players. It makes the game feel more alive and you can have meaningful experiences through interactions with them. Yes, there are bad apples, but again, in the 300ish hours I have been playing, this has only been a problem recently. For now, the griefers win and I am playing in Solo to recover the $3 Million plus the cost of cargo I lost in that interaction.

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I was thinking of a few ideas to assuage pirating:

(1) Open up a slot on the ship where either an FSD Interdictor could be placed, OR FSD Countermeasures that work on ammo so you can avoid being ganked long enough to hop out of system. This would give a use to the cat and mouse game of scanning FSD wakes and tracking a traget if the person who is interdicting a player is not hacking.

(2) They could introduce a better insurance system where the player can pay credits in advance so that when their ship is destroyed, you don't have to worry about a rebuy. It could work in tiers where bronze level deducts 25% of the rebuy cost, silver deducts 50% of the rebuy cost and gold deducts 100% of the rebuy cost. Maybe there could be a plan you buy where the aggressor has to pay for part of your rebuy.

(3) Maybe they could work out a system where if a player kills you while you have crimes against you being reported, when you respawn, you have a 24 hour period where you could pay different tiers of prices per strength for mercenaries to track and attack your killer (only once per death). Perhaps assassination missions could be posted on the mission board for other players to accept, thereby promoting a sort of crowd justice.

It seems as if I am crying into a pillow but if a player is going to (A) Hack, or (B) be ballsy enough to kill players without bound, there should be some way to fight back, or at least provide a path to players who most likely haven't grinded out the perfect anti-ganker ship.

I honestly have a bunch of idea on how to balance the whole experience but seeing as I am not a developer, I can only hope some intelligent system is released before 4.0

\rant

cantina.gif


I couldn't help but overhear your complaints from the other side of the bar, and I have to say Commander looking at your build it's easy to see why you died so damn easily.

From one Open Mode trader to another, lets see what we can do with your build.

Right, off the bat you need some decent armour. I'd recommend some Military Grade Composite, you can get it from most starports.
That 7B Power Distributor needs to go. You need to have more capacitors to draw from to replen your shields/boost engines for any encounter.
Pulls out Prybar Next. You see the 4C Shield Gen you have fitted now? Pull it out. Cover it in hydrogen fuel and set fire to it. Better yet, eject it into the nearest star and never look at one again. You need a 6A. Replace that Class 4 slot with a cargo rack
Change that Class 5 Cargo Rack for a 6. It's not doing you any favours and recovers 16t worth of cargo space.
I'm not sure why you have collector limpets for a trade build. Toss that, lob a cargo rack in.
Next thing, ditch those Supercruise assist and docking computer modules. To any would be ganker, having these modules screams 'here be greenhorns'. Change it for a class 2 Cargo Rack, and a class 1A Fuel Scoop.
This may seem counterproductive (as you're losing... GASP... another 2t of cargo space) but this makes sure you're not THAT GUY who ends up calling the fuel rats because they have no fuel. In the Bubble. 1ly from a class F system.
Finally, you're a a hulking big target so chaff ain't gonna do you any good, and you really shouldn't need heat sinks for trading as you shouldn't be having heat issues in a trade ship, replace with Shield Boosters. Some would argue 2 boosters and 2 rear facing PD's in case you get Grom missiled but trust me Commander, they're something I've rarely seen mounted on cookie cutter reaver build FDLs.
Congratulations. You now have a much more survivable ship that can carry even more cargo than you're previous paperweight build managed.

There's plenty more advice I can offer, but you'll have heard it all before (hi/low waking, planetary braking, arcing approaches and the like) and slightly more obtuse, drunken space trucker tactics too, but people have explained them all before and likewise you're probably sick to death of every damn commander who's had a skinfull of Lavian Brandy leaning over to offer you guidance, so I'll leave you with the basics. Just remember: You're an open trader, something that as far as I'm concerned is a rarity and badge of honour that requires a skill few of the blowhards cowering in their blocked instances or PGs will ever posses. You take risks, for the greater reward to fill that void hole with CMDR interactions that all these paperweight build pilots will never understand, with every evasion of your hunters another victory mark on your board.

Gets off bar stool and heads for bar door
I'll see you in the black. It won't be hard to miss me, I'm the one in the Adder with paint falling off it running the blockade gauntlet at every damn CG laughing at every Annie pilot who can't understand why they keep dying, when they keep repeating the same mistakes, whilst I get through mostly unscathed.

tenor.gif
 
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SDC made it public, setting off the panic, which is totally out of proportion to the reality.

You want to blame the devs for hackers? Sure, go right ahead. Then you can blame just about every other game dev out there for hacks in their games. Its not unique to FD by a long way.

Your anti-PvP stance would see the game burn to cheaters if it meant those you loathe got even a little comeuppance. Your posts make this plain as day.
 
SDC made it public, setting off the panic, which is totally out of proportion to the reality.

You want to blame the devs for hackers? Sure, go right ahead. Then you can blame just about every other game dev out there for hacks in their games. Its not unique to FD by a long way.

Yeah, I understand. It's like how reporting anything shouldn't be allowed and crime should be given free reign to fester beneath the skin of society. Don't want to cause a panic, now.
 

Goose4291

Banned
SDC made it public, setting off the panic, which is totally out of proportion to the reality.

You want to blame the devs for hackers? Sure, go right ahead. Then you can blame just about every other game dev out there for hacks in their games. Its not unique to FD by a long way.

I'm taking my RP hat off after that fun last little post.

When the same hacks that have been reported and used for over a year still work and are used with impunity to the detriment of the community, the Devs have to shoulder some of the blame.
 
Don't have to explain myself to you. Look at the protest video on youtube so you run out of excuses because people are actually cheating. The protest guy was banned from open play for showing how the cheats are done. All of your excuses are already covered pretty well on youtube.

Settle down.

We know people cheat in Elite. We're saying the OP's experience doesn't support cheating.

Surely you can see the nuance there?
 
I'm taking my RP hat off after that fun last little post.

When the same hacks that have been reported and used for over a year still work and are used with impunity to the detriment of the community, the Devs have to shoulder some of the blame.

Absolutely agree. Ryan_m and company did the right thing. If that means we have to shoulder the burden of threads like these, then so be it!

It's a small price to pay.
 
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